Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES2886to2936 Page 38 of 79.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2886 From: mmarchitti Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Reliable Kite Auto-Pilots

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2887 From: christopher carlin Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome Dave North

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2889 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Airborne stabilized wind turbines system

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2890 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Wind turbine electricity generating system

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2891 From: dave santos Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks butt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2892 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome Dave North

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2893 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2894 From: Doug Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2895 From: Doug Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Reliable Kite Auto-Pilots

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2896 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Notions in NASA preliminary video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2897 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Notions in NASA preliminary video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2898 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Notions in NASA preliminary video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2899 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Granted: Jan. 4, 2011.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2900 From: dave santos Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2901 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2902 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to AirborneWindEnergy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2903 From: dave santos Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2904 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: US Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UASs) Regulatory Update

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2905 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Mechanism for collaboration

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2906 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2907 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Avian Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2908 From: Dan Parker Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2909 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Vector Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2910 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2911 From: Dan Parker Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Vector Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2912 From: harry valentine Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Market notes - Small-scale Rural Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2913 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Vector Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2914 From: dave santos Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2915 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Market notes - Small-scale Rural Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2916 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2917 From: dave santos Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: New Persistent Flight Principle Demonstrated (Pumped Tri-Tether)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2918 From: Doug Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2919 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Spider silk

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2920 From: dave santos Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: NASA Technology Readiness Level (TRL) Assessment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2921 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Tethered Magnus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2922 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2923 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2924 From: christopher carlin Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2925 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2926 From: energy.portal Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: 1energyportal

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2927 From: Doug Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Technology Readiness Level (TRL) Assessment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2928 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Superset: Transducers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2929 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Novel applications for ionomeric polymer actuators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2930 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Smart materials

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2931 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Smart materials

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2932 From: maccleery Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2933 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2934 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2935 From: dave santos Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Fw: [AWECS] Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2936 From: Muzhichkov Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2886 From: mmarchitti Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Reliable Kite Auto-Pilots
The aeronautical industry has always streched the limit of the available technology, starting with the Wright brothers. In my opinion the actual delays of these two big projects (you should add also the A400) are determined by the industrial organization that has become excessively large, bureaucratic.

KiteGen can be fancy if you think that a kite based system could be more powerful than a huge and heavy wind tower. But
KiteGen is also a simple concept, when it is understoot: in the case of the Stem version, a cross wind motion that produce lift, combined with an ascensional motion that produce power. However the present technology that is used has to be judiciously assembled, a very demanding task.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2887 From: christopher carlin Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome Dave North
For what it's worth stepper motors I'm familiar with are inductive brushless devices and not very suitable for what you're doing - they're heavy. If you take the motor out of a cheap electric airplane it won't be very high power but it would be a simple solution for a demo because it will be brush device and not require any electronics. Depending how big you're trying to go I'd use either an automotive alternator or if you want something smaller some outboard motors have small very high speed alternators. I'm not sure why you're messing with a regulator at least airborne. You might as well bring all the raw power you can get down to earth. If you want to be really cute take an automotive alternator. Take the output before the diodes which will be wild frequency AC. Run it through a transformer and get up to higher voltage. The higher the voltage the less current the smaller your wires down the tether. Incidentally as far as wire and tether look into wire guided torpedo technology. Anyway just a thought I don't fully understand what you're trying to do.

Regards,

Chris
On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Dan Parker wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2889 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Airborne stabilized wind turbines system
 Airborne stabilized wind turbines system
 US Pat. 7821149 - Filed Dec 9, 2009
 ... Al/ Bevirt ... entitled "Airborne Stabilized W ...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2890 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Wind turbine electricity generating system
 Wind turbine electricity generating system
 US Pat. 7830033 - Filed May 3, 2010
 ... Al/ Bevirt/44/ ... 10,; entitled: "Airborne Stabilized Wind Turbines Systems
 " Inventor: Moshe Meller. International Search Report dated May, (3 pages), ...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2891 From: dave santos Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks butt

Physicist Alex Bolonkin calculates that modern artificial fiber power transmission is 2682 times more efficient by weight, & more than 540 times by cross-section, than bare copper. KiteLab has found mechanical power transmission far superior to electrical conductors by many direct experiments. Aluminum is hardly better, given its low fatigue life. This sorry picture does not even count flygen weight. Some hope higher voltages than Alex's 1000V assumption can work, but there are terrible operational & design trade-offs. It increasingly seems flygen ventures lack competative viability, especially for high-altitudes.

 

This from the NASA annotated AWE bibliography-

 

Bolonkin, A. (2004). Utilization of Wind Energy at High Altitude.  Providence : AIAA. http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0701/0701114.pdf

  • The use of artificial fibers instead of copper
    • For 20 MW and voltage 1000 V the cross sections are Cu: 20,000 AF: 37 mm^2
    • Cable length of 25 km, weight of Cu: 8930 tons, AF: 3.33 tons
    • AF is also much cheaper

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2892 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome Dave North

Mr Christopher Carlin,

Thank you for the message.

The product and possibility I study is on
Optimization of AWECS of type flygen and on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rLbvSATEbg.
The goal is to found appropriate set for a brushed or brushelss (more difficult because of needed triphase bridge),for a small flygen with manual control to quickly load batteries for 1) model airplanes (lipo or lipofe4) or electronic devices like laptop,2) mobile phone etc.For the moment model airplane technologies are near to the goal but not quite enough for,in example,loading with 12 V DC and 4 A maximum (I obtain 6 V and 4 A with  the better (reverse into generator) brushed I know (12 V 2 A as motor,6V 4 A as generator).12 V is for loading existing chargers.A regulation is needed.

Regards

Pierre Benhaïem,
France (my english...)





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2893 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks

2001 September 6      Method of Utilization a Flow Energy and Power Installation   Filed: September 6, 2001

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2894 From: Doug Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Copper v. Plastic Cable Power-Transfer Potential (Plastic kicks
Yeah, and imagine those fibers helically wrapped into a driveshaft, with your kites elongated and hardened into blades, attached to a central hub to control the path, and you're once again back to Superturbine(R).

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2895 From: Doug Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Reliable Kite Auto-Pilots
Slowly all the concepts drift toward propellers, just as they have for 3000 years.
Sure, it's a "kite". Then make it longer. Then make it stronger. Then chase a circular path. At some point you might just break down and call it a blade and admit you're trying to fly a wind turbine as an autogyro, the rotor of which IS a wind turbine rotor. Little difference, if any. Noticing that a central attachment point magically controls pitch while insuring that circular path, and handling centrifugal force without wasting aerodynamic lift for steering, and you've re-"discovered" the propeller. Congratulations! Wow, a "hub". Yup, that IS the way to do it in the actual field of wind energy. Yup a circular path and a hub. Who knew?
By the time they eliminate the secondary propellers, take their power from the center, and add several levels, they will have a Superturbine(R)!
:)
All roads lead to Superturbine(R)
Doug S.

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "mmarchitti" <marchitti@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2896 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Notions in NASA preliminary video

 IPP: Capturing Wind Energy Through Airborne Platforms

What is said?
What might be said in some next edition?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2897 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Notions in NASA preliminary video
Comments in this forum are invited.

Also, comments are permitted at the video.
But, funny thing, my comment at the video yesterday did not get
published; apparently moderator did not want my post to show; my note
simply invited public to EnergyKiteSystems.net Note sure yet,
moderator has not written to me with any explanation. JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2898 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Notions in NASA preliminary video

The guide at the NASA video includes the following:

"Because of security concerns and NASA's legal obligation to avoid appearing to endorse commercial goods or services, posts containing URLs may not be published."

Does the video appear to endorse Joby, Sky WindPower, Magenn?  Flygens?  What happened to Payne, Bolokin, KiteLab Group, OrthoKiteBunch, etc. wherein the community is very extensive?  For taxpayer $100,000 we see about 3 or 4 same PR-players occurring.  A five minute read on one page of the Internet would clue to a much broader panorama.  Where is Airbine?  Tripod tether of KiteLab? BaseLoad Energy, SkyMill, etc.    

TU Delft Kitepower

TU Delft Team page

TU Delft folder

Airbine

Airbine

CMNA           CMNA

KiteLab Ampyx Power KITESA KiteBot KiteEnergyBlog

KiteLab, Los Angeles KiteLab KiteLab Group F.R.I. Billy Roeseler, consultant Cory Roeseler Gaylord G. Olson Selsam KiteShip

Dave Lang Drachen_Foundation Soaren
  • Wayne German
Drachen_Foundation Kitenergy    (no double "e") SkySails Dale C. Kramer KiteLab Group OrthoKiteBunch   (OKB) AirPlay WindLift 
  •  G    
  • Im
CyberKite Magenn Power Advanced Rotorcraft Technology E-HAWK HeliWind HeliKites HighestWind Isentropic Joby Energy Pacific Power Sails Kite Gen Research KiteBot KiteFarms   ...the company KiteGen KITEnrg KiteMill KiteNav KiteSA KiteShip
KiteTug
KiteSailing KiteTech Laddermill   Makani Power Kite Power NTS Energiesysteme Sequoia Automation
 
SkyMill Energy  (USA)   
 
SkyMill Power (Italy)
  • Davide Fantinelli
  • SkyMill.it    (Italy)
     
Sky WindPower SpiralAirFoil, Inc.
  • Daniel Parker
Miles L. Loyd Knut Kongsrud William R. Benoit Weather Decision Technologies, Inc. Nicolas Estava M. Mario Marchitti Michael Sherback C.O. Lee Boyce Henry Hallam Mathew Peddie Allen Ibara Alexander Bormann Albert J. Grenier Robert Lumley Sport-traction community US Hawks Hang Gliding Association WindBelt 
Humdinger Wind Energy
The Boeing Company Lang Associates Kite2 SkyWind AeroEolica Aero Drum Ltd Financing AWE
  • Daidalos Capital

Paravane energy high focus:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2899 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Granted: Jan. 4, 2011.

Nice way to begin the new year:
One of Gaylord G. Olson's patent applications moved into "granted" status: 
 KPM410   

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2900 From: dave santos Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video
Len (& Mark)
 
Most AWE folks are aware of the controversy over Joby Energy & the AWE Consortium's (AWEC) secretive VC pay-to-play culture. The latest negative perception is that the Consortium unduly influenced Mark's NASA deliverables to favor AWEC member interests over all other AWE stakeholders worldwide. A complaint has been made over the mysterious process by which Joby Energy, SkyWindPower, Makani Power, & Magenn were allowed to pack the NASA Study docs with their marketing imagery & dominate company mention. The pattern was clear in Aviation Unleashed PR, Mark's "Final Report", his video, & the NASA AWE website link page. Joby Energy in particular consistently seemed to get consistent top-billing without credible justification. NASA overlooked many top concepts & most of the serious AWE players worldwide, despite the urgent need for global cooperation.
 
The AWE Consortium used many unfair practices that secured this result. For example, it wrongfully restricted industry access to Mark & other gov officials by raising the ("hijacked") conference fees 600%, while giving itself free passes. In the end Mark somehow only directly interviewed AWEC insider companies, which set him up for the failure to make a neutral survey. One statement in Mark's video rang sadly true, that DOE does not know about aviation (despite throwing millions at Makani's Jumbo aerobatic E-VTOL idea).
 
Joe found this Federal policy, which bears on the complaint-

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2901 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2902 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to AirborneWindEnergy
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AirborneWindEnergy
group.

File : /NASA/HighAltitudeWindPowerDaveNorth.pdf
Uploaded by : joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com Description : Circa Jan. 2010 essay as proposal by Dave North

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/files/NASA/HighAltitudeWindPowerDaveNorth.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2903 From: dave santos Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power
The article author, Brian MacCleery, works for National Instruments (NI), the Austin, Texas, based leader in scientific & engineering R&D test, measurement, & control solutions. I have used its products off & on since the eightues & often recommended them, especially for experiments, prototypes, & low-volume production. Rob made a good choice in choosing NI. Other Austin-based AWE starts use NI products & the company clearly sees the AWE R&D movement as exciting. Austin is the most wind-powered city in the US, & a smart-grid leader, even buying West Texas wind options for decades of future population growth. Dave North quite rightly asserted "Austin rocks".
 
NI has alwasy been generous with donations of EVB kits & more, especially to academia, & when there is an exciting new application afoot. I will look up Brian when visiting Austin soon & discuss how NI can best support worldwide AWE research.
 
Look up NI & study its offerings. Contact Brian directly if you have questions (Cc:ed)

From: Joe Faust <joefaust333@gmail.com
 

http://windsystemsmag.com/article/detail/187/the-advent-of-airborne-wind-power

The Advent of Airborne Wind Power 

By: Brian MacCleery
January 2011




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2904 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: US Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UASs) Regulatory Update
 
"Unmanned Aircraft Systems Integration in the National Airspace System / UAS in the NAS
09.01.10
NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center is supporting NASA's new aeronautics initiative called Unmanned Aircraft Systems Integration in the National Airspace System,
or UAS in the NAS. Scheduled to begin in fiscal year 2011, this research project is designed to address operational and safety issues related to the integration of unmanned aircraft systems into the national airspace."
 

uas in the nas drawing showing the communication lines between several aircraft and communication devices.

=====================================

The UTAS (unmanned tethered aerial systems) will have tether-cone and cylindeer airspace needs that will be quite distinct from untethered UAS.   

JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2905 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Mechanism for collaboration

"An airborne wind turbine collaborative just organized (...) across the many small companies attempting innovation, providing a mechanism for NASA research collaboration."  MM in a Dec. 6, 2010 summary document.

KiteLab Group

It will be fine to see collaboration between NASA and KiteLab Group (the many small companies innovating).   Nearly 100 small companies!   Good show, NASA!    UTAS   unmanned tethered aerial systems are in the AWE race to stay.    That is a sign of care for the needed international cooperation that will serve earth's and US interests!     Groundgens, hybrids, and even some flygens in the AWE race!   AWECS that tract hydroturbines too!  Energy independence interest will succeed via international AWE cooperation.  Technical merit and safety will be kept in focus as 2011 unfolds.

JoeF

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2906 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration

In similar vein, an open investment period is occurring at WOW:

http://cms.windoperationsworldwide.eu/WOW-SpA/local.wow.eu/en/index.html

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2907 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Avian Energy

 Avian Energy

 

welcome ...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2908 From: Dan Parker Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration
Hi Joe,
 
               Congrats Joe and others, you know who you are, a quantum quicking, yabba dabba dooo. From Hang gliding to AWE, what a beautiful run. Impressive and honored.
 
                                                                                                                                                 Dan'l
 

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: joefaust333@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 22:50:38 +0000
Subject: [AWECS] Mechanism for collaboration

 

"An airborne wind turbine collaborative just organized (...) across the many small companies attempting innovation, providing a mechanism for NASA research collaboration."  MM in a Dec. 6, 2010 summary document.
KiteLab Group
It will be fine to see collaboration between NASA and KiteLab Group (the many small companies innovating).   Nearly 100 small companies!   Good show, NASA!    UTAS   unmanned tethered aerial systems are in the AWE race to stay.    That is a sign of care for the needed international cooperation that will serve earth's and US interests!     Groundgens, hybrids, and even some flygens in the AWE race!   AWECS that tract hydroturbines too!  Energy independence interest will succeed via international AWE cooperation.  Technical merit and safety will be kept in focus as 2011 unfolds.
JoeF
 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2909 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Vector Kites
Group,

When searching for a technology platform for my own experiments I just stumbled upon Vector Kites which you might find interesting as well. I can not find an english version of the site, but just click on any picture and have a look at the embedded videos:

http://www.jp-deutschland.de/Shop/vector-kites2/index.html

=======================

/cb btw. I have not relation what so ever to the company J Perkins
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2910 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Mechanism for collaboration

Something from each of us for the agenda?

Put something on the NASA agenda?
http://awtdata.webs.com/apps/calendar/showEvent?calID=4719484&eventID=86270327

I just put AWECS' wakes up for focus in the NASA  AWE forum.

And for next Monday's meeting, I placed a grant.  Maybe others will place something on the agenda for next Monday's meeting.

http://awtdata.webs.com/apps/calendar/showEvent?calID=4719484&eventID=86270327

JoeF
PS: click through the AWE Glossary gate link at NASA site  :  )

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2911 From: Dan Parker Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Vector Kites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuxveI2QbM  
this may help.
 
           & Dan'l
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2912 From: harry valentine Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Market notes - Small-scale Rural Airborne Wind Power
 
Many countries are experiencing a growing demand for electric power. That demand will require increased decentralization of the power generation, including micro power serving micro markets.
 
For wind power, the $/kW (cost per kilowatt) decreases with increasing output. A 1kW tower mounted turbine will cost more per kW than a 20kW turbine on a slightly larger tower . . . . the owner of the wind turbine can sell power to the neighbours. Some jurisdictions do allow adjoining property owners and diagonal neighbours to connect power lines across their property lines.
 
AWE has several advantages over tower-mounted turbines . . . access to steadier winds that blow at higher velocity.
 
One attractive AWE technology is the single-line kite that operates a drum (or crank mechanism) to generate power through reel-in, reel-out movement. The technology is attractive as it takes up very little ground space and the electrical generating equipment and mechanical mechanisms are at ground level . . . . easy to service, maintain and repair whenever necessary.
 
For many rural applications where an AWE owner supplies power to the nearest neighbours (EG: 5-homes or farms), a 2-kite AWE installation may be all that is needed to generate the required amount of power (5kW to 30kW). One kite can pull to the left when moving from the centres of the prevailing wind direction, while the synchronized right-side kite pulls from the centre to the right.
 
Dave Santos's tripod system could operate on a 2-kite system and be installed at the corner of a farm . . .  a 2-kite system will allow for a relatively small tripod that could drive a vertical-axis crank. While the single-kite tripod system has merit, the tripod covers an extensive ground area . . .  the 2-kite version may operate quite well with a relatively small-area tripod.
 
 
For massive grid-scale applications, an AWE installation of 1GW output that could operate free from state subsidy, would certainly be appropriate.
 
 
Harry
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2913 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Vector Kites
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2914 From: dave santos Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue

Companies like Joby Energy & Makani Power insist that the best way to harvest upper wind is jumbo aerobatic kiteplanes operating at high speed. Many challenges to this view continue to emerge. JoeF has spotted a new concern, Wake Turbulence Hazard, which i thought about & find significant.

 

We have two good clues to reason from. There is vast experience with Wake Turbulence Hazard at at airports, which was a mysterious killer until it was understood. Training & operational procedures were put in place & the issue receded. The basic precaution is to increase spacing of aircraft when awareness of the hazard exists; generally  when an aircraft is following too close behind another on take-off & approaches at low altitudes in the absence of crosswind (I will always remember long ago taking off with my father in a Cessna light plane only a few thousand feet behind a giant C-5A Galaxy & enjoying the opportunity to probe the massive wake).

 

Another fine clue is Prof John Dabiri's finding that wind farms consisting of High Re HAWTs suffer disproportionally from wake interference compared the wind farms of Lower Re VAWTs whose weaker wakes dissipate far more quickly. His research was able to show that one can crowd far more capacity of VAWTs into the same space & actually reverse the longstanding conventional wisdom that HAWTs are always intrinsicly superior.

 

What this suggests for hot kiteplanes is that performance & safety margins will be considerably degraded by Wake Turbulence from neighbors & increased spacing &/or staggered altitudes will be required to reduce the effect. On the other hand, slower AWE kites should enjoy the same advantage Dabiri found for densely packed Low Re turbines & be able to harvest considerably more power from a given parcel of airspace.

 

Reference-

 

Dabiri JO (2010) “Order-of-magnitude enhancement of wind farm power density via counter-rotating vertical-axis wind turbine arrays,” submitted. [arXiv preprint]


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2915 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Market notes - Small-scale Rural Airborne Wind Power


Works off the ground?

JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2916 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue
In support of AWECS wake issues and study:
http://energykitesystems.net/WakeTurbulence/index.html



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2917 From: dave santos Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: New Persistent Flight Principle Demonstrated (Pumped Tri-Tether)

It has been previously reported to the Forum that the KiteLab's Tri-Tether concept not only is a good way to transmit power from a looping kite to the ground, but can in principle be "back-driven" to keep a kite in the sky without wind. Today a successful demonstration occurred at the opening of the 10th Annual Windless Kite Festival, in Long Beach, WA (USA), in the Long Beach Elementary School gym. The fliers were competitor Michael Dirk, judge Don Ostey, festival founder Scott Durran & "yours truly". Retired Boeing engineer & Kite Master Dick Durran materially assisted & served as the senior expert witness.

 

Three kiters stood apart in a triangle pattern, each with a kiteline attached to a shared toy kite (Winnie-the-Pooh). Each kiter tugged on the line in turn (three phase power) & easily sustained the kite circling aloft. This suggests that the elusive high-value goal of persistent flight is practical without tow-vehicles, lifting gas, aerial-refueling, conductive cords, & motors aloft. Had the experiment been outdoors, transition to & from wind-powered flight could have been shown. By this sort of method, groundgen AWE has a clear capability to maintain flight thru calm. Many other applications, like communications, are enabled. The inventor requests a ban on military development of this technology.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2918 From: Doug Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Wake Turbulence Hazard Issue
Placing secondary rotors on the blades of a primary rotor is an old notion that would have proven advantageous by now if it were going to at all.
If there are 100 AWE ideas and one will emerge, the other 99 are likely ineffective approaches.
After spending the past several years debunking "new" turbine ideas, Seeing that most every idea regressed back to some earlier stage of the 3000-year known history of wind energy, I find that this pattern repeats in the field of AWE: "those without knowledge of history are doomed to repeat it."

Statements by Mark of NASA fall into this category: That drag-based machines should emerge as the "new improvement", or that we need only wait for technological leadership from China to pave the way and we can just copy them.

As someone who demanded of myself to master and surpass the state of the art in wind turbine design in general as an essential part of AWE, it's still amazing to me to see people announcing themselves as "players" thinking that somehow this essential step of mastering the known art of wind energy is somehow an irrelevant distraction as they begin re-making 3000 years of mistakes and false leads, in airborne form.

I will remain rooted in reality here and let everyone know that making the power is the EASY part: It's protection from overspeed that's the essential key to ANY system.
Of course trying to explain this to people with no experience in wind energy is like standing on a Formula-1 racetrack and telling would-be "contenders" with lawnmowers and wheelbarrows that steering, brakes, and suspension are the most important and essential requirements of a racecar - they don't even understand what a racecar IS, let alone appreciate anything remotely approaching subtleties of the art, therefore words fall on deaf ears. The people standing around the track with their wheelbarrows regard talk of suspensions and brakes as mere annoyances disturbing their fantasy. However a student of wind energy will understand that wind turbines as operated today are most broadly categorized by their method of overspeed protection.

Typically a newbie appreciates this only after learning how to make a powerful turbine, at which point they realize that they just keep burning out generators every time it actually gets windy.
:)
Doug Selsam
Http://www.flyingwindturbine.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2919 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Spider silk

Recent breakthroughs regarding spider silk may affect some parts of some AWECS at some scale. 

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Tethers/SpiderSilk/index.html    in support of topic.

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2920 From: dave santos Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: NASA Technology Readiness Level (TRL) Assessment

Technology Readiness Level (TRL) is a metric used by NASA & other federal agencies to support decision making. It informs the focus & prioritization of governmental R&D.

 

We can state with certainty that Low-Complexity AWE methods, like piloted/passive-control & COTS components like the ground-based generator, UHMWPE tether, & parafoil kite are, taken separately, at the highest TRL9 level. Flygens, conductive tethers, & hot kiteplanes are well down the TRL scale (~3-6). The tiniest Low-Complexity COTS-based AWECS can be reasonably rated near TRL8, but all utility-scale systems are at about TRL3.

 

KiteLab Group proposes NASA treat high-TRL solutions as especially worthy of early support to set the performance baseline against which low-TRL AWE progress is measured.

 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2921 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Tethered Magnus

 Tethered Magnus

It seems the kiting tether is not graphically shown.

I get that the bob seen on the rotary Magnus-effect  Savonious  kite implies a device to help cause rise and fall of altitude  of the kite for pumping the shown linear generator core magnet to cross the coils.   Is that it, Alex?  

The shake-flashlight linear generator idea?

http://tinyurl.com/LinearGeneratorIMAGEgeneral

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2922 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2923 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2924 From: christopher carlin Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus
I believe this concept is being actively implemented off the coast of Cornwall. I know it and some related concepts have been in work there for some years and there actually is an underwater electrical collection node installed to support experimentation on various systems.

Chris
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2925 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2926 From: energy.portal Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: 1energyportal
AWE seekers,
There is new portal which has green job listings, news, professional networking, and marketplace. This portal is dedicated for renewable energy. Please see if it is helpful for you. Link is www.1energyportal.net
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2927 From: Doug Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Technology Readiness Level (TRL) Assessment
Thanks Dave S.
:)
Doug S.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2928 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Superset: Transducers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer

AWECS as transducer

Change the wind's kinetic energy into .... what?

  • Heat, thermal energy
  • Light of various wavelengths and conditioning
  • Sound
  • Electricity
  • Mechanical motion
  • Pressure
  • Potential energy
  • Chemical (potential energy)
  • Electrochemical energy
  • ?

At some scale in particular applications an AWECS might be a transducer for very specific applications; sending electricity to a large utility grid is just one application of AWECS. Businesses and services spanning scales from tiny to huge will employ AWECS for many end purposes.

Airborne wind energy conversion systems (AWECS)

JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2929 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Novel applications for ionomeric polymer actuators

Just in case I am not around to develop  novel applications for ionomeric polymer actuators (IPA) in AWECS, this thread starter is here for others.

IPA newbie JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2930 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Smart materials

Smart materials will find their way into AWECS as sensors, actuators. shape morphers, structural integrity statusing devices, intelligent tethers, flight oscillator triggers, and more. 

Starter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_material

Smart materials newbie JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2931 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Smart materials

smart material        GenLink  |  Wiki   |  M2930  |  

SMA :: shape memory alloy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2932 From: maccleery Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power
Hi Dave. Thanks for your kind words about National Instruments. We are big supporters and believers in airborne wind. Our CEO, Dr. James Truchard, often speaks about it so the concept is pretty well known within the company and among editors that cover us.

You mentioned donations. We do have a green grant program intended to seed promising startups with NI software and training. (The grants do not include hardware.) Although the program is officially closed to new applications, we will make an exception for any airborne wind company or researcher that plans to deploy with NI components on board if you can get your application in by the end of March.

http://www.ni.com/greengrant

Last year we provided grants to 27 companies, including one airborne wind company, Windlift. They just sent in a case study, which we plan to use to generate more awareness within the trade press for airborne wind.

If any of you are visiting Austin, please do stop by the NI office to see me. NI is interested in how we can help airborne wind succeed- from control design and simulation, to rapid prototyping, automated test and instrumentation, power electronics, to embedded systems for grid scale deployment, ...

I've just added myself to the yahoo group so you can just reply to this thread too. Or drop me a line any time at 512-683-8759.

Cheers,
Brian MacCleery

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2933 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: Uplifting attitude: Advent of Airborne Wind Power
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2934 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video
DaveS,

I am French et do not know exactly the whole problematic.

What I can tell:Joe Faust'EnergyKiteSystem and Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association are good things for AWE.Airborne Wind Energy Consortium is also a good thing for AWE.Focuses are different but if I had the possibility,I should not have any problem to operate into the two associations.

What do NASA and Mark D. Moore is a very good thing for general development of AWE.What other governmental organizations in the world do it?It is a beginning.It is normal to inform NASA there are other entities and concepts for AWE but...

...Stop systematic critics and non founded suspicion and develop our concepts.

PierreB

   




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2935 From: dave santos Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Fw: [AWECS] Re: NASA Airborne Wind Video
Pierre,

Its not the video that was so bad, it was NASA's "Final Report" clearly favoring the AWEC-Four ventures that really upset a lot of small AWE players with higher TRLs & more depth of experience.  Mark Moore had only just entered the AWE field in 2010, from a background in military UAV's & E-VTOL, & he came under subtle but intense lobbying pressure from AWEC-Four. When he attended AWEC2010, he did not realize that so many diverse AWE players had been excluded by self-serving Joby Energy staff decisions. AWEIA stepped into the issue, with John Oyebanji representing the excluded global community, & NASA agreed to make requested changes for a more balanced AWE program. For the first time OrthoKite & many others will have a deserved presence in the NASA R&D process.

The push now is to reform AWEC; for the group to abandon its unjustified plutocratic (pay-to-play) governance, to act transparently (not VC stealthy), & to truly "represent all AWE stakeholders", just as it claims. I proposed that JoeBen resign (having failed in key areas & lacking in critical AE qualifications) & that Bas Lansdorp would be a popular & widely respected leader of the AWE Consortium. We see some reforms: The next conference will be outside of the California VC shadow; papers & presentations will not be excluded "for lack of speaker time & resources"; & once again there will be "hardship passes" for those valuable AWE pioneers that simply could not afford AWEC's 600% conference fee increase.

Kitelab Group will happily rejoin AWEC as more reforms are established. WOW & many others are also on the fence, ready to join AWEC as the picture continues to improve. NASA will be a fair & valuable technical leader for all AWE stakeholders worldwide (incl. academic, grassroot, & open-source AWE),

daveS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 2936 From: Muzhichkov Date: 1/18/2011
Subject: Re: Tethered Magnus
Sorry Joe, I've passed little bit a discussion. My idea is almost compleatly illustarted with small exeption: on the ground site after magnet must be a spring.
If you have a look on this video for example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ZXzMaTb1I
(Alex presenta is not me :) )
you will see a Magnus effect in real. It's what Magenn try to use but I suppose it's appears not with such ratation speed, what Magenn for it's model has.
I've made such kite (UFO-Rotor) for half a year and it's really fly :) but very unstable. When it was quit windy the kite fly upstairs like a rocket. But after 20 meters dropts on left o right site.
The idea to get an energy from it is following: a kite has eccentric, wenn eccentric is up magen comes also up because tether pull it up. On the opposite phase a spring pull magnet down.
It seams that I'm a follower of high frequency mechanical transmission. It combine both advantages: a possibility to transmit very consentrated energy per kilo tether weight (in compare with electricity) and also kite remain on one position. I explain why it important. Let's imagine a KiteGen carousel. If they want to get energy not from first 100 meters but from 5 km high. For one circle such kite must go up and down from zenit stay to strongest wind position (0 - 45 grad). Means kite must fly 2*Pi*5km/8=2km one way and 2km back. Just for one circle! I thick it's to hard to control such system. On this long way can be differen levels of wind with differen speed and direction. Other problem - temperature is changed with altitude. But it we talke about it already. So, I see a solution in high frequency tether vibration systems.

Alex Mu