Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES8981to9031 Page 77 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8981 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: "DIY Geoengineering" with Art Kites in Iceland

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8982 From: edoishi Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Texas AWE Encampment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8983 From: Doug Selsam Date: 4/8/2013
Subject: Fwd: Vestas disposing of Unused warehouse inventory

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8984 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Managing KiteFarm Wind Turbulence (TACO 1.1 update note)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8985 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Managing KiteFarm Wind Turbulence- Addendum (TACO 1.1 update note)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8986 From: Doug Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Windstorm Sets California Power Record 4,095 MW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8987 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Swedish Experts push Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8988 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Annual Note :) Robust flight of Upper Windpower.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8989 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Shock Behavior of Structural Polymers for AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8990 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: Some 2008 roots to Ampyx

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8991 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: When was Utility-Scale AWE first technically feasible? (mock debate)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8992 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: Kite towing kite and the coupling method

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8993 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Etzler's 1842 Kite "Paradise Within Reach" , as considered by Thorea

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8994 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Saraceno's Cellular Kite Prototypes (video-links)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8995 From: Doug Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: When was Utility-Scale AWE first technically feasible? (mock deb

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8996 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8997 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8998 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Roaring up with an application for a patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9000 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: David S. Knott and Rolls-Royce Pic

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9001 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: April 21, 1910: Driving or driven. Angus McKenzie of Ohio.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9002 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Wind power generation system for lighter than air (lta) platforms

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9003 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Soaring Wind Turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9004 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Hybrid lends some interesting farming strategies

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9005 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Airbine // ... changes and opportunity

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9006 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: BaseLoad Energy tackles big-time tether challenges for FEGs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9007 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: BaseLoad Energy tackles big-time tether challenges for FEGs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9008 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Mario Garcia-Sanz honored

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9009 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Sky 40, the Airborne 100 Wind Turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9010 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Airborne Wind Energy Harvester

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9011 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Some 2008 roots to Ampyx

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9012 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Voice from the past

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9013 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Arches base an arch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9014 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Tail Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9015 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Tether for tropospheric aeolian generator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9016 From: Doug Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: Sky 40, the Airborne 100 Wind Turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9017 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: SeaGlider Progress

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9018 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Riding the Wind ... in 1978

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9019 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Drachen Foundation will play its part in AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9020 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: FFAWE matters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9021 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Permanently lifting inside a geodesic hex mesh

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9022 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Permanently lifting inside a geodesic hex mesh

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9023 From: Doug Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: just found this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9024 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: just found this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9025 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: FFAWE matters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9026 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Texas AWE Encampment begins march to NYC Kite Music Events

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9027 From: Doug Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: just found this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9028 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: FFAWE matters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9029 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: just found this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9030 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: FFAWE matters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9031 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: FFAWE matters




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8981 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: "DIY Geoengineering" with Art Kites in Iceland
This kite art project is more symbolic than practical, but expect a growing movement to increase planetary albedo to counter global warming. Besides displacing GHG fuels, kites are more likely to serve in leveraged roles, like spraying sea-water at altitude to increase cloud reflectance, or powering carbon sequestration-

February 24, 2013 

The first ever Albedo Dreams Kite Making Workshop was organised in Nordic House, Reykjavik, Iceland. The local kite expert Sævar Lindal taught us how to make kites and we made some seven box shaped white kites and fly them, too. The idea was to reflect sunlight back to the space with these kites in order to cool the climate and this way mitigate climate change... 
 
http://www.artsufartsu.net/?p=408




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8982 From: edoishi Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Texas AWE Encampment
Here's an updated post concerning the Texas AWE Encampment -- including dates and directions:


Hope to see many people in attendance- we have a lot planned including kite motors, MOTHRA arches, looping power kites, flip wings,  kite fighting, media production, networking, camping and lots of kites in the air...


-ed

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8983 From: Doug Selsam Date: 4/8/2013
Subject: Fwd: Vestas disposing of Unused warehouse inventory


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Astoca on behalf of Vestas <windpower@newsletters.wtwhmedia.com Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:44 AM
Subject: Vestas disposing of Unused warehouse inventory
To: doug@selsam.com


On behalf of our client

Sale in conjunction with Hawk Enviro www.hawkenviro.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
April 11th;  Sealed Bid of Consumables

Bids due 

April 11th

 

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Vestas Wind Systems

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5 Lots of consumable parts;

Lot 1 Cable and Wires

Lot 2 Bolt Sets

Lot 3 Grease and Oils

Lot 4 Hydraulic couplings, fittings and hoses

Lot 5 Motors and Pumps

 

Click HERE for more information

 

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
April 18th;  Online Auction of Equipment

Auction Closes  

April 18th 

 

Viewing 

By Appointment

 

Vestas Wind Systems

Randers

Denmark

 

Items include;

 

Over 300 items in 70 Lots

Generators, Gearboxes, Pumps, Motors, Yaw Motors, Oil Pumps, Hydraulic Piston Pumps, Gear Pumps, Transformers, Roller Bearings, Bearings, Circuit Breakers, Couplings, Hydraulic Pumps, Solenoid Valves, Valves etc 

 

Click HERE to Register and Bid

 

 

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8984 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Managing KiteFarm Wind Turbulence (TACO 1.1 update note)
Perhaps the toughest challenge in AWE is coping safely and reliably with weather upsets. Unlike conventional wind towers, our AWES are light-weight flying machines economically optimized for "most probable wind", rather than extreme conditions. AWES seemingly cannot be made so heavy and perfectly controlled as to survive for 20years in every condition. Instead, our best-practice is "sense and avoid".  Wind-field sensing is advancing but still imperfect, with human observers still often better than current machine sensors.

10cm NextRad weather radar is already very useful to those in its service range, allowing close operational coordination around storm cells and fronts. 5cm Teminal Doppler Weather Radar TDWR offers even finer resolution, giving a kite farm a chance to duck small microbursts and gustnados (by bracing or killing the arrays). Software interpretation of weather data is still primitive compared with human-expert scientific forecasters reasoning about weather, but this is changing as computational meteorology advances. Sensing will improve, with scanning LIDAR finally perfected (SODAR proved too noisy and dispersive, with too narrow and crude a field-of-view).

Weather radar does not help in normal conditions, where wind disturbances can still hide and "come out of nowhere". For now, a key task of the FAA required AWES PIC and VO to be consistently scanning the windward sky for clues. A low-tech trick is to set toy kites to windward, to act as "canary in a coalmine". An upwind upset gives fair warning downwind, as it tends to travel intact within prevailing flow. Multiple advance-sensing kites are best, to filter out the occasional self-chaotic misbehavior of a single kite.
 
Except when it is clear, very dark, or foggy, there are usually visual clues to local wind instability. Riotous turmoil in the sky is an obvious sign, but often the critical clue is more subtle, like the appearance of large gravity-waves imposed on a stratus layer, with a slow period of several minutes. There are important clues in the conventional weather data, like the dry or moist abdiabatic lapse rate. Even just current gust-data gives a useful idea, the gustier, the more turbulent conditions are. There are also turbulence forecasts from services like www.turbulenceforecast.com .

There are many types of surface boundary-layer upset, including sloshing or breaking gravity waves, diverging downbursts, and converging (tornadic) updrafts. Today's well-trained PIC and tomorrow's intelligent autonomous controller ideally can identify, track, and react to disturbed air according its special characteristics and the specific effects on the AWES architecture. Different AWES will vary greatly in operational response to the same events, but that's another topic.



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8985 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Managing KiteFarm Wind Turbulence- Addendum (TACO 1.1 update note)

Another airport system in use to detect surface turbulence hazard is the Low Level Windshear Alert System now in its third version (LLWAS 3). It consists of a radial remote anemometer-anemoscope reporting array, centered on the airfield, whose windspeed and direction data is monitored for strong shear anomalies. LLWAS in combination with TDWR amounts to a robust warning capability of dangerous turbulence for an airfeld or kite farm.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_level_windshear_alert_system




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8986 From: Doug Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Windstorm Sets California Power Record 4,095 MW
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Windstorm-Helps-California-Blow-by-Wind-Energy-Record-202194991.html

Statewide windstorm from SF to LA & beyond
I could not even see the neighbor's house
for the whole day due to dust.
All our machines at all sites survived just fine :)
(which I was glad to hear)

NBC4 website text below:
Windstorm Helps California Blow by State's Wind Energy Record
A new record for wind energy production was set amid a powerful windstorm

Southern California's recent windstorm downed trees, knocked out power lines and fanned the flames of a wildfire, but it also set an energy record by spinning those towering white turbines in the desert.

A new high was recorded Sunday in the amount of electric power produced by wind turbines in the state, according to the independent nonprofit that runs about four-fifths of the state's power grid.

Wind gusts of more than 70 mph powered through the region beginning Saturday and lasting through Monday, with thousands losing power and drivers encountering poor visibility. Gusts were expected to continue in some areas late Tuesday into Wednesday.

The new record was set at 6:44 p.m. Sunday, when turbines spinning of the California Independent System Operator grid reported 4,196 megawatts of power produced.

That amount of power is enough to provide power to more than 3.1 million homes on average at once, according to data in a Cal ISO explainer.

On Friday, April 5, wind turbines had produced 4,095 megawatts of power, surpassing California's record of 3,944 megawatts, which had been set on March 3.

"With these impressive wind production levels, California is well positioned to meet the 33 percent by 2020 green power goal," said ISO President and CEO Steve Berberich, referring to a sustainable energy target set by California law.

Wind plants in California have a capacity of 5,899 megawatts on the Cal ISO grid, the organization said in a press release Monday, but not all of that capacity was available during the windstorm because of routine outages.

In the United States, California comes in second in wind power to Texas, where the state's peak production is more than twice that seen the Golden State's Sunday record.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8987 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2013
Subject: Swedish Experts push Kites

SSPA is Sweden's elite marine shipping R&D and testing institution. Their 5/6/2012 Newsletter featured kite energy in both hydro and aero forms, in two separate articles- One references SkySails and KiteShip ship-kites, and the other describes in-house progress with their Minesto energy paravane (waterkite)-

Regarding ship-kites-

"The only wind propulsor of the ones studied that can be 
considered to be on the market today is the kite. ‘To be 
on the market’ means in this sense that there is a number 
of them existing on a commercial basis. Studies show that 
the kite is a superior wind propulsor in tail winds, as well 
as being quite effective in beam winds. From simulations 
carried out with SSPA’s inhouse program SEAMAN it can 
be seen that even very large ships, like Panamax tankers, 
can reach a speed of around 8 knots with a wind speed 
of 10 m/s using a 640 m2 kite. Although such large kites 
do not currently exist on the market, it is not unlikely 
that they will be available sometime in the future. The 
potential benefits are significant: using a kite for the entire 
journey with a 10 m/s tail wind and speed of around 8 
knots would result in fuel savings of almost 100 % for the 
propulsion of the ship"


Regarding energy paravanes-

Minesto has developed a new concept for tidal power 
plants called Deep Green. Deep Green converts 
energy from tidal stream flows into electricity by way 
of a novel principle, somewhat similar to the posture 
of a wind kite. The kite assembly, consisting of a wing 
and turbine, is attached by a tether to a fixed point on 
the ocean bed. As water flows over the hydrodynamic 
wing, a lift force is generated which allows the device to 
move smoothly through the water causing the turbine 
to rotate and produce electricity.
The kite consists of a wing, which carries a nacelle and 
turbine that is direct coupled to a generator inside the 
nacelle. The wing is attached to the seabed by struts 
and a tether. The tether to seabed accommodates both 
power and communication cables for further connection 
to shore. The kite is steered in a predestined trajectory 
by means of a rudder and servo system located in the 
rear cone of the nacelle along with a control system. The 
tether attaches the kite to a swivel mounted on a foundation 
on the seabed. The kite velocity in the trajectory 
is significantly higher than the current velocity. Thus, the 
method increases the flow velocity into the t...

http://www.sspa.se/files/field_page_files/hl_56_2012.pdf

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8988 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Annual Note :) Robust flight of Upper Windpower.
First:  Much thanks to those who have chosen to support robustness of Upper Windpower publishing stream!
Even though all content is open freely to the world, support enables best results and service.  Support has arrived in various ways. Thanks to all. 
The direct financial way is also important; consider being a supporting subscriber, even though access is open to all. 

Next action recommended: Feed and water that which you want to grow:   Strong Method Here 
The 2012 income tax report just filed on April 9, 2013 to the IRS declared the fact: one regular paying subscriber for 2012; thank you (subscriber is from Europe)!
Let's see the system include YOU for 2013  !    Also received and reported was a business-reported donation of $500  which was a welcome offset to Upper Windpower's donation in 2011 out for tethers for open-source AWES experiments.   To keep Upper Windpower publishing stream robust, consider feeding it; thanks.

Upper Windpower  publishing stream for RAD includes: 
  • EnergyKiteSystems.net
  • AWES public tech forum 
  • KitePatents
  • KiteApplications
  • KiteLinks
  • KiteVideos
  • KiteTypes
  • KitePlans
  • Airborne Wind Energy online open book
  • News list: KiteEnergy
  • KiteEnergy.org
  • KiteEnergy.net
  • Archiving
  • Researching and reporting AWES matters
  • Communications assistance
  • Open source for all the related AWES IP originating from chief editor
  • Line Encyclopedia
  • KiteLines
  • FlipWings
  • FoilDesign
  • KiteBooks
  • AWES history
  • Assistance on many web efforts in our AWE community
  • ... and more
Thanks,  and best of lift to you and yours,
Joe Faust

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8989 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Shock Behavior of Structural Polymers for AWES
Our advanced polymers, like UHMWPE, have a strange vulnerability to transient mechanical shock. If the AWES designer does not account for this, mysterious failures will occur well below presumed "rated" max load-cases. In particular, high-altitude kite experiments seem to have often failed by inadequate shock mitigation on the kiteline.

Transient shock loads occur by many different causes. In the case of a rigid composite wing, even  small "forklift accidents" in the hanger can cause critical damage. In the case of AWES polymer lines and membranes, shock loads emerge when there is a lot of multi-frequency energy in the material and the lower frequency energy begins to move faster than the higher-frequencies; a pile-up of energy occurs at stress-concentrators (discontinuities like knots or seams), and represent the true max load-cases. Violently flapping (flogging) membranes eventually fail by the same sort of damage, of internal sonic shock harmonics breaking down polymer bonds over time, so the designer-operator takes pains to reduce damaging conditions (with reinforcements, battens, etc.).

Careful design and handling operations can almost completely avoid shock fatigue, for an indefinitely long service life. We recall the WindJammers Kite Team has used the same UHMWPE lines for decades (An old fisherman recently asserted to me that (properly rigged) ""TUF-Line" (UHMWPE) can last a lifetime"). Engineered shock resistance is commonly based on distributed "cushioning" with shock-absorbers (dipping-poles, bungees, metal springs, air-shocks, dashpots, etc.),




For those who want to go deeper into the polymer shock problem, there is a subtle visco-elastic thermal-temporal liquid-crystal physics. UHMWPE turns into a brittle glass under shock, which focuses at defects; a small flaw, like a nicked line, parts as if cleaved by a glass-cutter. Shock focuses at defects for sudden (even explosive) fracture failure. 

Pasted from Wikipedia-

"The time–temperature superposition principle is a concept in polymer physics and in the physics of glass-forming liquids[1] [2] [3]
Some materials, polymers in particular, show a strong dependence of viscoelastic properties on the temperature at which they are measured. If you plot the elastic modulus of a noncrystallizing crosslinked polymer against the temperature at which you measured it, you will get a curve which can be divided up into distinct regions of physical behavior. At very low temperatures, the polymer will behave like a glass and exhibit a high modulus. As you increase the temperature, the polymer will undergo a transition from a hard “glassy” state to a soft “rubbery” state in which the modulus can be several orders of magnitude lower than it was in the glassy state. The transition from glassy to rubbery behavior is continuous and the transition zone is often referred to as the leathery zone. The onset temperature of the transition zone, moving from glassy to rubbery, is known as the glass transition temperature, or Tg.
In the 1940s Andrews and Tobolsky [4] showed that there was a simple relationship between temperature and time for the mechanical response of a polymer. Modulus measurements are made by stretching or compressing a sample at a prescribed rate of deformation. For polymers, changing the rate of deformation will cause the curve described above to be shifted along the temperature axis. Increasing the rate of deformation will shift the curve to higher temperatures so that the transition from a glassy to a rubbery state will happen at higher temperatures."

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8990 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: Some 2008 roots to Ampyx
Articles missed keep showing up: 

Posted on June 16, 2011 …

2008 ENERGY PRODUCTION FROM KITES 

After taking the course of “Kites, smart kites, control systems and energy production” I 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8991 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: When was Utility-Scale AWE first technically feasible? (mock debate)
Careful study and practice of world kite traditions shows that Stone Age methods suffice to make direct-mechanical AWES. Self-stable traditional kites even provide a basis for flight autonomy not yet surpassed by modern flight controls. There is even an ancient basis for scaling up power with many unit kites in integrated arrays, in kite trains and staked-out arches.

Pocock's designs were perfected in simple materials and construction at just the time and not far from Faraday's electric dynamo, which came into being in 1831, and improved rapidly. Therefore, the basic components of a rather effective AWES existed from then. Etzler posed AWE in print with eloquent clarity in 1833, so even our core concept was present.

Faraday's mentor, Sir Davy, had earlier invented the arc-lamp. Morse came up with the telegraph in 1837. Davidson's electric train came in 1838. Had there been the right historic impetus, whole cities could have been motorized, lit at night, and communicated instantaneously; all powered by UpperWind; even some 160 years ago. The required AWES elements were in existence at TRL-9, and just lacked system-level integration. We got coal and oil instead, as prime-movers.

A counter-view, in marketing high-complexity AWES ventures, is that AWE is only now possible, thanks to the High-Tech Revolution, which means low-complexity AWE cannot even exist. The counter-view pretends historical amnesia of the picture laid out above. If simple AWE promptly emerges, its very bad news for prematurely complex architectures. This is a dramatic contest of engineering visions, and we in the middle of the action.

Two counter-view samples (of many) that suggest historical amnesia and high-tech essentialism-

Ampyx-

    "The notion of tapping into high altitude winds was first posed in the 1970’s but was not technically possible."

Makani also promotes that AWE was not possible before, but now is-

Why has it taken 30 years for the technology to mature into functional systems? The answer is still primarily one of technology: improvements in materials, sensors and computers have in large part enabled the jump from drawing board to reality.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8992 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/12/2013
Subject: Kite towing kite and the coupling method
Clip from the video on left; some edit art on right: 
http://www.energykitesystems.net/HangGliderHistoryImageOnlyTimeline/TowHG/ATOSeTow2013.jpg

[IMAGE]
Notice the rotating blades; notice the tether to the second kite coming from the rotating center. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8993 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Etzler's 1842 Kite "Paradise Within Reach" , as considered by Thorea

Here we have a case of James Etzler's 1833 renewable-energy manifesto proposing Kites as the ultimate tool to end labor by superabundance, as reviewed by a young Thoreau, no less, in 1842, on Emerson's suggestion.  This is the creative spring from which Hawthorne drew his 1842 Celestial Railroad, as he and Thoreau became friends at the time.

Etzler, despite his flaws, is a patron saint of energy sustainability per se. He is classifiable as Fourian (Utopian Socialist), but original. He thought a sustainable paradise based on wind, currents, and sunshine was at hand, not seeing the age of fossil fuel about to interve. Perhaps now is Etzler's critical-mass moment, when the global movement of open AWE R&D associations he long ago hoped for can finally blossom.

To tame chaos and intermittency, for baseload power, Etzler proposed pumped-hydro. Many of his simple formulas read like modern DIY and are still useful. He argued for design simplicity in geoengineering by megascale automata.  He anticipated an end to war, by a "information life", envisioning a sort of Internet, bioplastics, floating cities, and so on. Perhaps his "Paradise" is the earliest coherent picture of modern geoengineering.

Etzler made early estimates of the superhuman power in planetary geoflows. For illustration, he describes an early wind-wall energy concept, 200ft tall by many miles wide. Here Etzler offers, and Thoreau quotes- "We are not limited to the height of 200 feet; we might extend, if required, the application of this power to the height of the clouds, by means of kites.” Thoreau counters with a wry proposal for human space migration via a sort of space-elevator "secured to heaven’s roof".

Etzler's prose is by turns well reasoned, manic, megalomanic, and desperate. His truths would be taken as rantings, the US Federal Government and President Andrew Jackson would take no notice of the "Paradise" books he sent them. So the US gov has over 170 years neglecting low-complexity AWE.


Thoreau's review-


Which ends thus-
 
... [Etzler] deals in the very raw but still solid material of all inventions. He has more of the practical than usually belongs to so bold a schemer, so resolute a dreamer. Yet his success is in theory, and not in practice, and he feeds our faith rather than contents our understanding. His book wants order, serenity, dignity, everything, — but it does not fail to impart what only man can impart to man of much importance, his own faith. It is true his dreams are not thrilling nor bright enough, and he leaves off to dream where he who dreams just before the dawn begins. His castles in the air fall to the ground, because they are not built lofty enough; they should be secured to heaven’s roof. After all, the theories and speculations of men concern us more than their puny accomplishment. It is with a certain coldness and languor that we loiter about the actual and so-called practical. How little do the most wonderful inventions of modern times detain us. They insult nature... When the sunshine falls on the path of the poet, he enjoys all those pure benefits and pleasures which the arts slowly and partially realize from age to age. The winds which fan his cheek waft him the sum of that profit and happiness which their lagging inventions supply.
The chief fault of this book is, that it aims to secure the greatest degree of gross comfort and pleasure merely... Undoubtedly if we were to reform this outward life truly and thoroughly, we should find no duty of the inner omitted...What says Veeshnoo Sarma? “He whose mind is at ease is possessed of all riches. Is it not the same to one whose foot is enclosed in a shoe, as if the whole surface of the earth were covered with leather?” 
He who is conversant with the supernal powers will not worship these inferior deities of the wind, waves, tide, and sunshine. But we would not disparage the importance of such calculations as we have described. They are truths in physics, because they are true in ethics... Suppose we could compare the moral with the physical, and say how many horse-power the force of love, for instance, blowing on every square foot of a man’s soul, would equal... Love is the wind, the tide, the waves, the sunshine. Its power is incalculable; it is many horse-power. It never ceases, it never slacks; it can move the globe without a resting-place; it can warm without fire; it can feed without meat; it can clothe without garments; it can shelter without roof; it can make a paradise within which will dispense with a paradise without. But though the wisest men in all ages have labored to publish this force, and every human heart is, sooner or later, more or less, made to feel it, yet how little is actually applied to social ends! True, it is the motive-power of all successful social machinery; but, as in physics we have made the elements do only a little drudgery for us — steam to take the place of a few horses, wind of a few oars, water of a few cranks and hand-mills — as the mechanical forces have not yet been generously and largely applied to make the physical world answer to the ideal, so the power of love has been but meanly and sparingly applied, as yet. It has patented only such machines as the almshouse, the hospital, and the Bible Society, while its infinite wind is still blowing, and blowing down these very structures too, from time to time. Still less are we accumulating its power, and preparing to act with greater energy at a future time. Shall we not contribute our shares to this enterprise, then? "





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8994 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Saraceno's Cellular Kite Prototypes (video-links)
Its still unclear if Tomas Saraceno is serious about safe human flight as artwork, and is just not very good at it, or is depending on social-spoofing and media special-effects, as the hidden modus operandi to create dreamy artistic illusions of flight. His fawning inside circle is secretive, and even TUDelft seems cowed into strictly maintaining the airworthiness mystery.

The two small rather conventional cellular kites disclosed in the links below hardly suggest Saraceno's team is on-track to create a flyable megascale version this summer, with aerospace expertise from TUDelft. The characteristically low flight-angle predicts scaling up greatly is not workable. 

Can anybody offer a definitive early explanation of what is going on?

 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8995 From: Doug Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: When was Utility-Scale AWE first technically feasible? (mock deb
I would have to agree with Dave S. that AWE has been possible basically since the electric generator was invented. Certainly by the time we had electric windmills we could have been flying them.
After all, aviation uses similar technology. Seems like having a vision is one thing. Having a vision that can actually WORK is another. Having a vision that can work economically is another thing still. And having the time, energy, focus, determination, and resources to develop such a vision involve even more multiple, essential factors.

In the end it comes down to, of the few people who COULD do AWE, who have sufficient understanding, what number would bother? That's already a small number of people. A fraction of a fraction of a fraction, til we get to where we are today: Nobody with a useful AWE system developed. I know in my case I have rotors made but have not finished the machine and will be doing gardening today after taking a hike this morning. Well, ski season is over. What's your excuse today for having no useful AWE system developed? Certainly it is not technology holding us back. The only thing holding back AWE is nobody is doing it. Much. Really.

The more credentials a team has, the more they seem helpless with no vision or ability to build anything. Look at NASA. What have they got so far? They could have been generating power within the first week, but now years later how many Watts do we see?

I told you guys years ago that all these jokers were a bunch of loons. Last I knew NASA was pushing renderings of a blimp lifting a wind turbine in the 99.6% vacuum of Mars, while Honeywell had a rendering of a Robert Heinlein-esque jet plane from the 1950's, a demonstrated inability to produce even a small turbine that was not a laughingstock, and nothing producing a single watt of power.

Funny to watch it all. Now the NASA people told me that the blimp supporting a wind turbine in the 99.6% vacuum of Mars was just "a conceptual rendering" or some such excuse for promoting ignorance of basic planetary conditions.

But a person with common sense, someone used to debunking technological lies and bad ideas, sees the publication of a bad idea that couldn't work like this as symptomatic of the inability to analyze technological ideas for veracity. The question is, how many high-level bureaucrats provide funding based on things like pictures of a blimp flying in a Vacuum, while kids in a high school science class could easily debunk it if asked "OK kids, what is wrong with this picture?"

Using an impossible idea as a calling card, whether it is the Magenn Sta-Puf Marshmallow Man promoting airborne ignorance, or a government lab inadvertently explaining why the space program is no longer able to land men on other planets because they've forgotten the concept of atmospheric density, this is real comedy! What else can you do but laugh?

I have talked to a few people who understand good ways to do AWE. Hopefully at some point one or more of us will actually bother to do so! Meanwhile I hope Makani or Skywindpower have some luck, since their concepts seem at least in the ballpark of possibly viable. Don't give up!

Have a sky-high day!
:)
Doug S.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8996 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
Note: Current status of the corporation is not known to me. 

A KITE FOR A SYSTEM FOR EXTRACTING ENERGY FROM THE WIND   

Applicant: Kite Power Solutions, Ltd. 
John William Hardy ( J.W. Hardy)

Discussion  start: 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8997 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
  • Director at Kite Power Solutions Ltd  :   Bill Hampton
  • "prototyping and development of power generating kite systems"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8998 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Roaring up with an application for a patent


http://www.google.com/patents/US20110266809 
Gyroglider power-generation, control apparatus and method 
US 20110266809 A1

Publication numberUS20110266809 A1
Publication type Application
Application number12/907,967
Publication date Nov 3, 2011
Filing dateOct 19, 2010
Priority date
Jun 3, 2009
Also published as
Inventors
Applicant
U.S. Classification
7 More »
International Classification
Cooperative Classification
8 More »
European Classification
F03D 7/00
F03D 5/00
References

External Links

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9000 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: David S. Knott and Rolls-Royce Pic
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9001 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: April 21, 1910: Driving or driven. Angus McKenzie of Ohio.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9002 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Wind power generation system for lighter than air (lta) platforms
Wind power generation system for lighter than air (lta) platforms  
US 20110192938 A1 
Publication numberUS20110192938 A1
Publication typeApplication
Application number12/702,536
Publication dateAug 11, 2011
Filing dateFeb 9, 2010
Priority date
Feb 9, 2010
Inventors
Applicant
U.S. Classification
International Classification
                           C25B9/00
                            C25B1/04
Cooperative Classification
European Classification
B64B 1/50
References
External Links


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9003 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Soaring Wind Turbine
Update?  News?
First page clipping of US2008116315 (A1)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9004 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Hybrid lends some interesting farming strategies
Attachments :
    http://www.google.com/patents/US20090127861
    Hybrid lends some interesting farming strategies. 

      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9005 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Re: Airbine // ... changes and opportunity
    Mr. Potter has announced that his trademark "Airbine" is up for the taking. Contact him.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9006 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Re: BaseLoad Energy tackles big-time tether challenges for FEGs
    Update requested?  Status of agreements?
     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9007 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Re: BaseLoad Energy tackles big-time tether challenges for FEGs
    There seems to be bouncing of emails at info@_________________    etc. regarding Baseload Energy. 

    Cykic Software list Sky WindPower as a client "since 90s"  
    Albert Grenier seems connected to the Cykic Software: 

    Does anyone have the result of the challenges between Baseload Energy  and Sky Windpower?



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9008 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Mario Garcia-Sanz honored
    Mario Garcia-Sanz honored

    Engineering’s Mario Garcia-Sanz earns Diekhoff Award for Graduate Teaching

    Our Airborne Wind Energy online book's chapter folder related to his and his students' AWE work:

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9009 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Sky 40, the Airborne 100 Wind Turbine
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9010 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Airborne Wind Energy Harvester
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9011 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Re: Some 2008 roots to Ampyx
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9012 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Voice from the past
    On page is a button for a short voiced note. 
    Corwin speaks. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9013 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Arches base an arch
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9014 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Tail Power
    Tail Power

    Tell your tale about tail power!

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9015 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/15/2013
    Subject: Tether for tropospheric aeolian generator
    Tether for tropospheric aeolian generator   application for a patent
    Publication numberUS20120036821 A1
    Publication type Application
    Application number13/138,234
    Publication date Feb 16, 2012
    Filing dateJan 20, 2010
    Priority date
    Jan 23, 2009
    Also published as
    2 More »
    Inventors
    Applicant
    U.S. Classification
    International Classification
    Cooperative Classification
    European Classification
    F03D 5/00
    D07B 5/00C
    C05F 7/00
    C05F 17/00D
    C02F 1/28H
    Less «

    External Links
    Inline image 1
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9016 From: Doug Date: 4/16/2013
    Subject: Re: Sky 40, the Airborne 100 Wind Turbine
    Nice job Pacific Sunwear! :)

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9017 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
    Subject: Re: SeaGlider Progress
    Improved source on the article: 

    J.H. Hagedoorn – inventing the Hapa: A review of a geophysicist's ‘other’ work and how it inspired others    The official abstract is here:
     http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2478.2001.00296.x/abstract
     PDF available here:
     http://ebookbrowse.com/66251685-hagedoorn-inventing-the-hapa-pdf-d377690427

    Article written by Theodor Schmidt


    ~
    JoeF
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9018 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
    Subject: Riding the Wind ... in 1978
       Riding the Wind With a history way back in antiquity, the kite today is finding more applications than ever. These developments are largely due to scientific design. by Nick Laurie, editor of European Kiteflier and secretary of the European Kiteflier's Association.  In New Scientist, page 922f, 28 September 1978.   Mention of Keith's crossing of the English Channel by kite power was briefed. 

    A technical note on Cody's tactic of rings and cones for sending up kites on main lifter line to stations on the line is included.  Vary the size of the rings and cones. Big rings pass the smaller lower-on-line cones. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9019 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
    Subject: Drachen Foundation will play its part in AWE
    http://www.energykitesystems.net/DrachenFoundation/index.html 
    Twenty years celebrated ... and going strong, 
    Drachen Foundation will play a significant role in AWE.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9020 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/16/2013
    Subject: FFAWE matters
    In `1800s fugitive dual kiting in free-flight were observed, recorded, discussed. 
    In sailing we have the bi-media air wings and water wings combined doing energy capture and use. 
    FFAWE Club  continues to grow. 

    A finding of an article from New Scientist is a fresh gem in the growing FFAWE literature:
    Source link: 


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9021 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/17/2013
    Subject: Permanently lifting inside a geodesic hex mesh
    Picture part of a hemispheric geodesic mesh (the upper half of this ) missing it's top 1/4 (the roof or cap)

    A hexagonal or near circular sheet inside, could have it's tethering set meshed around the ground ring and airborne frame.
    leading edge higher than trailing.
    The tethering run up the side of the mesh could be length set by a mechanical function of the drag force on the structure...
    If the tethering of the mesh is a web, with tether legs run down through the frame, and brought together onto a loop inside the frame ground circle ...
    so that ... say the material was blown back to the RHS, the ground loop would be pulled to the LHS, allowing the  sheet LHS (leading edge of the sheet) to lift.


    might work

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9022 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/17/2013
    Subject: Re: Permanently lifting inside a geodesic hex mesh
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9023 From: Doug Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: just found this
    AWE patent
    US 7063501
    Fig. 10
    hybrid
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9024 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: just found this
    --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" wrote:
    ================================
    http://www.energykitesystems.net/0/Selsam/Fig10ofUSUS7063501.JPG

    Clip from patent: 
    9. Ninth Embodiment

    FIG. 10  This ninth embodiment is similar to the eighth embodiment, with the addition of at least one lifting body 31 attached to the downwind section 50 of driveshaft 10 the help elevate it. Such a lifting body may have aerodynamic lift, buoyant lift, or both. Buoyant lift may be obtained through the use of a buoyant gas, such as helium or hydrogen. The buoyant gas may be used to fill the lifting body. At least one bearing 11 attaching said driveshaft to said lifting body allows the driveshaft to rotate relative to the lifting body.

    10. Tenth Embodiment

    If the driveshaft is hollow, a buoyant gas may be used to fill the driveshaft itself, making the driveshaft itself, or a part of the driveshaft itself, atmospherically buoyant.

    ===========================================================

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9025 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: FFAWE matters
    From the sector of 

    we add a note from kiteboarding and kitejumping world with a FFAWE slant: 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9026 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Texas AWE Encampment begins march to NYC Kite Music Events

    Forget exact dates, the 2nd Texas AWE Encampment has in effect started, and continues indefinitely for weeks. There is still time for folks to make plans and attend the action. Early visitors are trickling in as a volunteer network of guest houses, gourmet kitchens, camps, workshops, flying fields, bike/carpool transportation, and so on, comes together.

    We expect a sort of climax phase in a couple of weeks as a dozen or new AWES machines leave the fab shops and begin demonstrations at Taylor-Taylor's 50 acre hay-kite hybrid kitefarm. "Winning" machines will move to Austin's Zilker Park for a flash-mob kite music series. These concerts are "dress" rehearsals for major kite music events in planning for New York City. The NYC Parks&Rec authorities are excited and acting helpful with approvals, and major music stars are already offering to participate in "AWEfest".

    Top folks, like Wubbo Ockels and Cristina Archer, are supporting this push to catch the public imagination with Kite Energy in NYC. Wubbo spontaneously offers the TUDelft AWES as a resource, and we hope pending invitees like WindLift, Enerkite, and all others with working low-risk mobile systems participate in these events, expenses paid. Patrice Mallard, Ed Sapir, and Util llc deserve special praise for this wave of new progress. Chase Honaker's KickStarted AWE Documentary is another powerful driver.

    We have found a new path forward for the fractured AWE R&D community, promising an astounding inventive-momentum. This latest model for success is not based on stealth-venture-capitalism, or winner-take-all competition in military-industrial fly-off. The historic new technical progress will be by a public-celebration format, with all the vitality of unlimited crowd-sourced love and intelligence.

    Please come help the "Austin KiteKamp" meet its technical milestones in coming weeks. Contact Ed Sapir to join the fun-  edoishi@yahoo.com





    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9027 From: Doug Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: just found this
    So I already HAD a patent on filling the driveshaft with helium.
    Makani recently got a patent on filling a driveshaft with helium didn't they? I wonder if they saw my patent first? If they referenced my patent? If their examiner saw my patent? If I wanted to be sarcastic I'd say "I've forgotten more than most people will ever learn about airborne wind energy..."
    Say, have you heard about this new outfit out of Canada called Magenn? Did you know NASA is planning lift wind turbines using blimps in the 99.6% vacuum of Mars? Ever seen the movie "Idiocracy"?
    Did you know Honeywell has a great new inside-out wind turbine with the generator on the outside and the wind on the inside? No, really! The world needed some completely backward engineering! Professor Crackpot always has a new Bowtie, but the same Polka Dots remain...!
    :)))
    Doug Selsam

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9028 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: FFAWE matters
    At the suggestion that I type out the article and put it in larger font: 
    New Scientist  10 June 1976

    My autaltic friend Daedalus admires the kite, which use the velocity of the wind, relative to that of the Earth to which the kite is tethered, to generate lift.  It now occurs to him that wind velocity always varies with height: not only does it increase at higher altitudes, but the large-scale surface winds (eg the trade winds) have return counter-currents flowing in the stratosphere above them. Accordingly, he is designing a free-flying double kite, with two independent aerofoil surfaces at different altitudes and so in different wind-streams, connected together by a long cable. Each tensions the other (or better, both are tensioned by a common load which they both support). The whole affair, the load and the two kites above it at different heights, is kept aloft by the wind-flows over the surfaces. It will need sophisticated on-board computer control to maintain height and stability in the face of changing wind conditions at the two altitudes, but modern circuitry is very light and has power requirements low enough to be met by small on-board windmills. The whole elegant creation, two surfaces, a load and a few kilometres of light connecting cable, will inevitably drift along the resultant of the two wind-velocities lifting it, but might manage to "hunt" up and down the atmosphere in search of winds to carry it in whatever direction radio-control or an inbuilt program required. Daedalus's free-flying kites will have many uses. Their ability to stay up indefinitely, or ascend or descend to radio command, will make them cheap and ideal for meteorological surveying, high-altitude photograph, infrared telescopy, etc.  With enough of them tacking about the atmosphere, long-range radio-propagation by active relaying from kite to kite, or just re-radiation from their long cables, would become statistically nearly perfect.  They would pose some threat to aircraft, but not much: most likely the plane would just sever a cable and leave the kite to drift gently down to earth.

    Study of the article:

    [ ] What is the meaning of "autaltic" in the sentence?  Probably "autistic."  

    [ ] Who was Daedalus in 1976? Unknown yet. But we know that in 1967 Richard Miller in his book Without Visible Means of Support  did describe free-soaring double-wing kite system.

    [ ] Such free-flying kite systems were known in late 1800s described in literature by Gilbert Totten Woglom; his discovery came upon breakaways.

    [ ] The 1976 article in New Scientist did describe AWES twice over: 1) Total system converting winds' energy for effective purposes, and 2) on-board windmills to generate electricity for driving purposed loads.

    [ ] With judicious choice of the two wind streams and differential controls of the distant wings, very large choices of location may be obtained.

    [ ] The 1976 article was not treating large systems; by such, some important safety concerns were not addressed.  Differently, lines may entangle aircraft and down them; loss of property and life may occur.  Failed systems of this sort could drag wing and lines to do tremendous damage on the ground. To effect practical and safe large systems of FFAWE, much care would be needed in design and operations.

    [ ] Open public discussion and technical sharing may occur from the bridge post and its replies:

    AirborneWindEnergy/message/9020

     


    Working page: http://www.energykitesystems.net/0/FFAWE/NewScientist10Jun1976study.html
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9029 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: just found this
    Doug,

    Let the Magenn scam be your dead horse to always beat. The AWES Forum spotted it before you, brought it public, and moved on. Same with Makani's 2009 down-select errors of premature complexity. We have done a better job with domain technical critique, and sooner, than you. The AWES Forum is also the most acute observer of USWindLab's conceptual shortcomings. No conventional wind forum can make that claim.

    The idea of a helium-filled driveshaft leaning downwind has a fatal problem of enormous drag and downforce created. None of the real AWE experts would advocate this silly idea you seem to be proud to think you invented. Even KiteLab's clever trick of leaning such junk forward (guyed to windward), for added net lift, is, in the KiteLab final view, just the well-known LTA over-dependence error (by excess cost and inherent technical flaws).

    Your crude emotional attacks in every direction, but especially toward unnamed figures in aerospace academia ("Professor Crackpot"), serve to remind us of your ongoing lack of improved AWES prototypes. Where is your new progress? Share that to be the windpower hero you imagine you claim to be ("the greatest living wind power inventor").

    I hope you (and Joe, your LA neighbor) can come to KiteKamp. Carve a set of blades for us to set on a row of drive-lines under Mothra3, as one of our many tests,

    daveS

     

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9030 From: dave santos Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: FFAWE matters

    Eddy also witnessed spontaneous free-flight with one of his runaway kite trains, but i do not recall where the written account appeared.



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9031 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/18/2013
    Subject: Re: FFAWE matters
    Dan Beard has some secondary notes on Eddy and loose kites: 

    JoeF