AlexB's decade-old laddermill variants are of interest mostly by key details, such as staging the ladder at high altitude and decisively positing a pilot-liter element. His many other AWES concepts contain far more visionary aspects, so don't dismiss him as a laddermill slave. DaveC taught us to look at novel aspects of patents, rather than quickly dismiss them as "me-too" "copycats". AlexB also represents a very seasoned opinion of AWES feasibility, deserving special attention.

Regarding KiteGen carousel concepts, Doug needs to be reminded that 1) Not all concepts are adequately modeled at small scale (ie. Moonshots), 2) Not every worthy inventor is qualified to create prototypes. Absence of a prototype is often unrelated to feasibility. Its unfair and illogical to condemn concepts in such cases for a lack of a scale prototype. 

A simple AWE carousel can be shown by flying two power kites from a playground carousel, but this is not KiteGen's R&D style, which gambles on large well-funded experiments as the quickest route to utility-scale commercial success. KiteLab Group's culture can in fact make a convincing small scale carousel experiment with minor funding, but the KiteGen carousel concept is seen as having economic scaling issues compared to competing variants that seem to far better maximize land, airspace, and capital. In particular, well-spaced pumping trains on a farm can drive a central generator by phased tugs with far less capital infrastructure and flight control challenges. Local failures do not stop the show. The early carousel ideas are the stepping-stone to the new gigawatt architectures.

---

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: rod.read@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:18:52 +0000
Subject: [AWES] Re: Alexander Bolonkin

 

Harry

Have a really giant ring that encircles a city or region or state or nation or sea or lake or ocean or earth (west to east travel loop around the earth). 

Have on that elevated ring  several cars that contain people and goods. 

The cars are pulled from point to point for loading and unloading. 

The cars are pulled along by kites. 

The cars have axle-mounted generators that produce electricity as the transportation occurs. 

Move people and goods while generating electricity from the wind using the set of kites.  

Some of the gained energy will supply for lulls.  

Prefer to have wing-set lifters as LTA kytoons for ever-up tugging kite systems; lifted could be low-mass kite trains.  

Storm? For storm: morph the wing set to yet mine the storm.  

That KiteGen is conducting small modest experiments from a "palace" is perhaps more ironic than logical. Lets hope KiteGen quickly solves its detail-engineering challenges (launching and landing dynamics, retrieval stability, etc.) to compete in an ever more crowded field,

daveS

Of highly developed traditional kite cultures worldwide, the Maylay Archipelago is a top region, and this is a great intro video. These are very "advanced" kites; note the contrast of the Bebean "dancing" kite type with the more stable Janggan kites with long hypnotic tails. Such "engineered" dancing is a shallow figure-of-eight, Dutch-Roll, a basis for "passive-control" power generation by tapping a two-line tether yoyo style. Note also the two-stick Pecukan kite able to fly stably and efficiently with minimal complication. This wing looks like NASA's latest, for all its elegance, and the local Bali fliers see in it their most salient invention in world kite design, a basic element included in larger more complex kites.

This video is limited to elite competition of very formal types. The Balinese also improvise freely to make any spectacle imagined fly, including complex mechanical effects. Banners on poles are another well-developed genre, with many elaborations, but this video only hints at these other specialties. The key role of  essential roots music (and kite hummers) and magical narratives is evidenced. This kite festival owes little to Western versions, even as world kite cultures begin to interact and overlap.

It has been my honor to study these kites directly in the World Kite Museum collection. The Balinese people could surely make their own kite power mostly by skills and knowledge already in their possession-

In the aeronautical world, there is a rectangular inlet that allows for variable cross-sectional area . .  .  . the design includes a "dump gate". This technology could help wind power people develop an alternative means by which to deal with high-velocity winds .  .  .  . something that accelerates to 60m/s, up from 15m/s. During such times, it becomes important to lock down conventional wind turbines.

A variable cross-sectional area inlet with a dump gate could restrict the mass of air flow that interacts with the turbine, with wind speeds of 60m/s.

High-altitude wind power involves wind with higher availability and higher velocity. Diffuser technology would be helpful in regions where high-elevation winds are affected by the Jet stream.

Harry

Bob

It will be exciting if KiteGen can show superior launch-land methods to the well-known classic options available, but time is passing fast,

daveS

PS I am very curious about KiteGen's equity structure, and how it is recalibrating (or not) to fit circumstances. My understanding is that it started with a very high book value (based on the price demanded of WOW for its shares) controlled mostly by the main founder. How can KiteGen sustain that set-up with so many new competitors worldwide vying for investor attention? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've raised some very interesting points .  .  .  . the military is increasing their use of renewable green energy. The US Navy has recently introduced a diesel-battery-electric hybrid ship into service, a retrofit of an earlier diesel-electric power system.

They're definitely interested in wind power, especially wind power technology that can keep generating power throughout a severe wind storm. One option would be a super-strong kite technology made from composite materials and carbon-nanopaper.

They may also be willing to test out a ducted wind turbine, one where the duct is adjustable and can maintain a steady mass flow rate of air through the wind turbine, regardless of wind speed. The Air Force has operated jet aircraft with rectangular intakes that include 'dump gates' to divert excess air mass away from engine intakes .  .  .  . so they know that technology quite well.

Be interesting to see how Makani technology holds up during severe wind conditions, when the army base would just like the wind turbines to continue to generate electric power.

Harry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Util and KiteLab Austin are working closely together as partners toward a range of AWES offerings. A new series of AWES groundgen developmental prototypes is being prepared for evaluation under the new 300m2 arch, as a scale working kite farm. After Austin testing, a US tour is planned, and then an EU stint perhaps starting at Dieppe, then maybe Calabria, Isle of Lewis, etc. Live Music will be a key application.

 

Here is the first scale device (~500W) of the latest family to show off in a cell-phone video by talented Util engineering manager, Ed Sapir, who also did most of the work. Note our signature Austin techne style, developed over many years. Its not a production or true scale model, but a creative study for more robust units next in the pipeline-

 

 

 

URL: http://youtu.be/gCLz1WPRUdc

 

 

Stay tuned for more "kitemotors" and many new power extraction wings and turbines, suited to hang from the big arch, that will drive these workcells.

I do agree with your perspective.

I have seen government investment fail many times 

- Gov't made easy money available to start-up high-tech companied during the 1990's "to create a perpetual economic boom", except all that government money created dozens of companies that developed products and services for which there was very little market. The result was the Dot-com bust and high-tech meltdown.

- Massive Gov't investment in Green Energy in Iceland, Spain and Ireland did not save those countries' economies from going the way og Greece .  .  .  there is now a green energy meltdown underway in many parts of the world.

- For almost 30-years, the US Gov't commandeered development of the Stirling-cycle engine, dumping in US$-millions to increase its output and raise its efficiency .  .  .  .  all that investment achieved next-to-nothing. More recently, the US Gov't has "invested heavily" into further development of the thermo-acoustic engine that converts heat to low-frequency sound waves in a pressure tube, that then drives a linear alternator to produce electric power at thermal efficiencies of some 60%.

I have seen private entrepreneurs achieve amazing results while operating on very limited, private funding budgets. 

Under present economic conditions, many governments may have to abandon programs that provide funding to politically suitable scientific and technical projects. The fallout may open doors for privately funded entrepreneurs who achieve amazing results on shoestring budgets.

Some privately developed AWE technology that develops power at below grid prices, could find a market in rural areas from residents who would invest in competitively priced technology .  .  .  . including some small-site, off-grid power technology.

Harry

Countdown to Mothra1 Maiden Flight continues. 

 

Posting a little kite note to fill the wait-

=============================================

For some of us "Kite Song", by the major folk music star, Patty Griffith, is the AWE Anthem. Its KiteLab Austin's shared spirit, they spring from the same roots, a small Central Texas counter-culture based in Austin. Patty will be taking a continued role in AWE (via common friends). 



Some years ago, Patty introduced "Kite Song" like this: 

"You may have noticed these beautiful kites we have hanging from the stage here, and we're kind of doing a kite thing, and I'll tell you how that all came about.  This next song, called Kite Song, was inspired by a friend of mine, walking on the lake in Austin.  There's a place called Town Lake in Austin, TX, where we both live, and we happened upon a huge kite festival (Zilker Kite Fest, oldest in US) - this was just a few days before the United States invaded Iraq - there was a lot of anxiety in the air and lots of worries and she looked up and said, 'Wouldn't it be great if we all had kites that we were flying instead of bombs we're dropping or guns we're shooting?'  And I thought, 'well, you know, that's such a great idea.'  It's one of those ideas that nobody ever thinks could work, and that's why it never works, but I think we should give it a shot.  It turns out we're not the only ones thinking this way.  Rick Taylor, the stage manager, was
looking at kites on the web and found out that there's different movements about flying kites for peace all over the world (One Sky).  So, we're not the first people to think about this.  That's cool." 



"Kite Song"


The Sunday after there was laughter in the air
Everybody had a kite
They were flying everywhere
And all the trouble went away
And it wasn't just a dream
All the trouble went away
And it wasn't just a dream

In the middle of the night
We try and try with all our mights
To light a little light down here
In the middle of the night
We dream of a million kites
Flying high above
The sadness and the fear

Little sister just remember
As you wander through the blue
The little kite that you sent flying
On a sunny afternoon
Made of something light as nothing
Made of joy that matters too
How the little dreams we dream
Are all we can really do

In the middle of the night
The world turns with all of it's might
A little diamond colored blue
In the middle of the night

We keep sending little kites
Until a little light gets through

 

 

Some find Patty's original version schmaltzy, but she is a magical songster.

For those critics, there will be many less sweet harder versions by cover artists-

 

 

It is probably impossible for a government program to direct research effectively.  Wherever there are unknowns, political skills can easily trump technical ones, and opportunities are as unpredictable as meteors.

Private fortunes, OTOH, are a very inefficient and pernicious way to make research possible.  

Systems engineering might suggest that the government try to tax the successful innovations that have gotten out of hand or need replacement, and fund research through universities, and by grants to the lowest bidding private researchers.  The main requirement would be to fill a gap in Wikipedia with solid data that could stand peer review.  It would be easy to get expense money for apparatus, often recycled, and the wages would be set by how many hours were devoted to chasing that year's allocation.  Posting the main part of plans that led to a new industry would be rewarded with opportunity for more ambitious new work, not royalties for old work.  This would maximize friendly cooperation while still recognizing talent.  

While we are at it, it might be nice to set a uniform rate for all unproductive people, giving copyright lawyers the same disposable income as cripples.  

Bob Stuart

at least my head is in the clouds. .