Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                     AWES5606to5657 Page 10 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5606 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Address on Kite Engineering for the Indian Institute of Technology

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5607 From: Doug Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Solution to FAA Required Man Carrying a Lantern for Crosswind AW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5608 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Kite transport over snowmobile transport

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5609 From: harry valentine Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Kite transport over snowmobile transport

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5610 From: Doug Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Discuss new video of NASA AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5611 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Using kite power to build pyramids

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5612 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5613 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Wayne German's document has been entered to FAA

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5614 From: harry valentine Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5615 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5616 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5617 From: Doug Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Using kite power to build pyramids

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5618 From: Doug Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5619 From: Bob Stuart Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5620 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Energy Hearts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5621 From: Muzhichkov Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5622 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: SelfExtraction

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5623 From: dave santos Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5624 From: dave santos Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5625 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5626 From: Dan Parker Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5627 From: harry valentine Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5628 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Tethered system for power generation by Damon Vander Lind, et al

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5629 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Solution to FAA Required Man Carrying a Lantern for Crosswind AW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5630 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5631 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: SelfExtraction

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5632 From: christopher carlin Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5633 From: Doug Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5634 From: Doug Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5636 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Places for sharing your ideas

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5637 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5638 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: KiteLab Optimal TarpKite Concept Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5639 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: KiteLab Optimal TarpKite Concept Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5640 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: FAA AWES Submissions in Review

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5641 From: Doug Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5642 From: blturner3 Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5643 From: blturner3 Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: MakaniPower Fans and Detractors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5644 From: christopher carlin Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5645 From: Bob Stuart Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5646 From: dave santos Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: MakaniPower Fans and Detractors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5647 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: FlygenKite towards both solar energy and AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5648 From: dave santos Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Draft //Safety Standards For Human-Lifting Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5649 From: AirborneWindEnergy-owner@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Gaudencio A. Labrador and his now public domain AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5650 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Draft //Safety Standards For Human-Lifting Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5651 From: roderickjosephread Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5652 From: dave santos Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Hi-Fi Biomimetic Kite Farm Model (Shark Gills)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5653 From: dave santos Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Gaudencio A. Labrador- AWES Visionary-Extraordinaire

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5655 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Progress on the simple wing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5656 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on the simple wing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5657 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on the simple wing




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5606 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Address on Kite Engineering for the Indian Institute of Technology

Kite Master- Peter Lynn Sr.

                Address on Kite Engineering for the Indian Institute of Technology

~Gandhinagar, January 14/2011.
Peter's broad presentation ended with AWE, which he has followed closely via many connections like Drachen, KiteShip, and Makani (Pete Jr. worked at the early Makani). In the last year the tea-leaves seem to say that Peter is "coming home" to KIS AWE, which he could potentially dominate, if he sets himself to-
 
"...And there is research now going on that could, in one hit, provide a solution to almost all the challenges I've so much enjoyed attacking as an engineer during the last 40 years.
Kite energy projects; the possibility of generating electricity at commercially competitive cost by various kite powered means, have attracted considerable investment in the last 5 years. As part of these projects, most teams are now working on rigid carbon fibre aeroplane form kite which are to be autonomously controlled. The practical problems they face are enormous- not least being how to ensure the safety of people on the ground below when there are large tethered aeroplanes whizzing around overhead at 200km/hr or so generating enormous line and structural loads and completely at the mercy of fickle wind.
And the auto pilot systems are causing no end of grief. Confident assertions from many of these projects in their early days that this was a simple enough problem which would soon yield to good systems engineering have so far proven to be optimistic- though progress is undoubtedly being made. But even if none of these projects succeeds commercially in this round, the data base and systems they develop is inexorably adding to the sum of things known about kites.
And I do expect that single line aeroplane style rigid kites with electronic controls could
soon be a reality for recreational kiting- even if they aren't developed to a sufficient level for commercially reliable kite electricity generation for some years yet.
And kites of this style achieve all the things that I dream of; they're ideal single line kites (capable of previously unachievable L/D's and of flying reliably in the widest possible wind range), and they are the best possible traction kites. With such kites, kite boarders will go higher and stay up for longer than even the bravest amongst them desire, and kite sailors will leave conventional yachts in their wakes on every point of sailing..."

Bring them on I say!  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5607 From: Doug Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Solution to FAA Required Man Carrying a Lantern for Crosswind AW
Funny how often we start a conversation with:
"America is pulling out all the stops to develop green energy",
transitioning to:
"U.S. Agencies are going to "help"".
And we start listing the agencies that are "going to help"...
and end it with:
The U.S. Agencies may be making progress difficult or impossible but hey, America is only 1/50th of the world!
Then we start listing countries where we might be allowed to develop such systems without government interference.
Hey I'm just sayin'...
:)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5608 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Kite transport over snowmobile transport

Snowkite and Water Kite Alternative Transport   
...replacing fueled mobiles with wind-based options.


What is the total  replacement-of-ICE potential for earth by kite transport?
Students going to school and back?
Getting to work by kite transport?
To-market-and-back routes?
Visit a friend; go by kite?
Transport along coastlines?  Rails for kited transport?
Move goods from west to east; cable-ways across nations? 
Tacking for other points? 
Wayne German sent note to FAA describing near complete transport of goods around the world by "air-sailing" tethered-aviation means. 
KiteCars, Kiteboats, kite-lifted tramways, hybrid free-flight kite craft, ...
Get in tune with the wind ways and put the kite to work to move people and goods. 
Add courses in schools that instruct about working kites. Have course: Kite-Driver Education. 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5609 From: harry valentine Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Kite transport over snowmobile transport
Kite-powered water-craft well-proven. Kite-powered snow-craft in some remote regions very possible. There are some remote service railway lines in Northern Canada where kite propulsion may indeed be possible.


Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: joefaust333@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:02:47 +0000
Subject: [AWES] Kite transport over snowmobile transport

 

Snowkite and Water Kite Alternative Transport   
...replacing fueled mobiles with wind-based options.


What is the total  replacement-of-ICE potential for earth by kite transport?
Students going to school and back?
Getting to work by kite transport?
To-market-and-back routes?
Visit a friend; go by kite?
Transport along coastlines?  Rails for kited transport?
Move goods from west to east; cable-ways across nations? 
Tacking for other points? 
Wayne German sent note to FAA describing near complete transport of goods around the world by "air-sailing" tethered-aviation means. 
KiteCars, Kiteboats, kite-lifted tramways, hybrid free-flight kite craft, ...
Get in tune with the wind ways and put the kite to work to move people and goods. 
Add courses in schools that instruct about working kites. Have course: Kite-Driver Education. 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5610 From: Doug Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Discuss new video of NASA AWES
If they are serious I could give them a working system that really utilized their aerodynamic and control skills.
**********************************************8

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5611 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Using kite power to build pyramids
While I do not think that this is how they did it - it at least shows the power and a low tech aproach on how to use it:

Researchers Lift Obelisk With Kite to Test Theory on Ancient Pyramids

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/06/0628_caltechobelisk.html

/cb
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5612 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Bad news from Skysails
Skysails just had to let go 40 of their 80 people due limited hopes of finding enough ship owners able or willing to invest into it´s technology given the cost pressure in the market.

I can not find any english speaking link so far but maybe you want to use google translate on the following links:

http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/0,2828,812770,00.html

http://www.fr-online.de/wirtschaft/schifffahrt-schiffdrachenhersteller-in-turbulenzen,1472780,11582404.html

It does not say how big the impact on their airborne power genereation Skysails Power will be.

/cb
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5613 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Wayne German's document has been entered to FAA
Wayne German's document has been postal mailed to FAA regarding TetheredAviation
matters.  ALSO, the document has been entered online and should show in a day or so,
as some delay occurs at the commentary process on AWES. 

In his document he rehearses "air-sailing" to any point on earth to any other point on earth without fuel. 

This  reminds me to form a kind of summary note on "kite" that permits such extensive thinking:

This Thayer early patent by David Thayer  Patent number: US 417755   Filing date: Jul 22, 1889 
seems to be the core precursor to contemporary  excursions of using a kite, a mid-line pilot (or pilot in upper wing or in lower wing set), and a hydrofoil (which could be an airfoil in air).

 For example, see the adventures of Luc Armant and others.   
and
http://proafile.com/archive/article/207   and from the 2011 Wayne German awards:
  • Luc Armant Self-Flying Hapa (Aile d'Eau -video).      See core document.       
    He is strongly accenting OZONE.

     

  • Stéphane Rousson
    Human Hapa ( used modified Chien de Mer in SeagliderChien de Mer was created by Didier Costes).     First flight Seaglider.

    What he does with a kite and a hydrofoil may be a first, but it can greatly be improved in many ways.  


    And, of course, this is a core model for fully-aired Free-flight AWES http://energykitesystems.net/0/FFAWE/index.html where the hydrofoil is simply taken as a lower airfoil operating in differential wind environment to permit free-flight kiting.  Woglom (recording instances in book Parakites in late 1880s), Richard Miller, Joe Faust, Dave Santos, Wayne German, Dale C. Kramer, and others have in various ways advanced the Free-Flight system that has tether(s) joining an upper wing set and a lower wing set.  See the growing club :http://energykitesystems.net/0/FFAWE/index.html         Long distance soaring, Wayne German tacking to any point on Earth for goods and people transport with "air-sailing" and advanced energy production in such FF-AWES are some of the coming adventures using Thayer's fundamental principles cored in late 1880s.  

    Three-part system: upper wing set, tether set, lower-wing set operating in fluid(s). All parts could be underwater; all parts could be in the air; or parts may share air and water. The total gross system is a kite system: wing set, tether set, and resistive set (which is a wing set, sometimes as primitive as a soil anchor). 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5614 From: harry valentine Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails
The Baltic Index is a measure of the number of ships carrying cargo . .  .  . that number is down! Skysails needs to look into other areas for their technology .  .   .  . such as pulling electric-generator watercraft.

Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: snapscan_snapscan@yahoo.de
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:09:23 +0000
Subject: [AWES] Bad news from Skysails

 
Skysails just had to let go 40 of their 80 people due limited hopes of finding enough ship owners able or willing to invest into it´s technology given the cost pressure in the market.

I can not find any english speaking link so far but maybe you want to use google translate on the following links:

http://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/0,2828,812770,00.html

http://www.fr-online.de/wirtschaft/schifffahrt-schiffdrachenhersteller-in-turbulenzen,1472780,11582404.html

It does not say how big the impact on their airborne power genereation Skysails Power will be.

/cb


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5615 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails
In support of Harry's urge for SkySails, 
all are invited to advance the EGW topic. For such, I'll watch this thread and accumulate notes at

Image a huge island-like resort hull that holds a city of vacationers while the hull holds thousands of hydro turbines generating huge amounts of electricity (perhaps using such for making hydrogen or other chemicals for delivery to ports by shuttle "air-sailers" from Wayne German and company, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5616 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails
SkySails' downsizing is the recurring pattern starting with Etzler and Pocock two hundred years ago, then the Kite Golden Age a hundred years ago, and continuing with Dave Culp's efforts in ship kites in recent decades, where lower fossil fuel costs suppress the advance of Kite Energy. Corrected for inflation, coal and oil is currently about as cheap as it has ever been, due to recent "advances" in extraction.
 
Harry notes that cargo ship numbers are down, but shipping tonnages are still growing, as container megaships increasingly dominate. These monstruous ships are inherently more marginal to kite-assist, not just by high-consequence danger, but they naturally cruise faster in proportion to windspeed, squeezing an already narrow window of suitable kite-flying conditions. Cheap-Oil phases are not all bad for AWE; one can imagine laid-off SkySails folks starting new kite ventures that would not have happen otherwise.
 
The best AWE bet to not get pushed around by fluctuating energy markets is to early-on find value-added niches based on the kite's unique quality of cheap flight, and let the energy application take hold in its own time. Kite-based sky-diving, experimental architecture, specialty lifting, fire-fighting; the cool possibilities boggle the mind. The same low oil prices hurting the ship kite market make it cheaper for small kite starts to acquire the oil-based string and rag to start with.

  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5617 From: Doug Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Using kite power to build pyramids
Amazing to see the world catching up to the things I thought about as a lad...
It would be impressive (funny?) to see a construction site where multi-ton rocks were being hoisted about, overhead, by kites!
Wear steel-toes shoes and a hardhat!
:)
TACO-II = hey is it Taco-Tuesday? Two-fer Tuesday?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5618 From: Doug Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails
Yeah The Baltic Dry Index, which reflects the price of shipping by sea ship, is at a very low point. So it's not just SkySails but all shippers that have reduced cashflow currently.
Since Skysails ostensibly lowers shipping costs, lower shipping costs should fit well with lowered shipping prices. There's a glut of new ships in production too.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5619 From: Bob Stuart Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Bad news from Skysails
Aye, and when there are extra ships, they can offer lower rates for slower service as they take most advantage of the wind.  OTOH, the owners just may not have money to invest.

Bob Stuart

On 13-Feb-12, at 9:02 AM, Doug wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5620 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Energy Hearts
Best clicked online
Energy from your heart kiting
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5621 From: Muzhichkov Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)
Hi Dave! I've just found your article on http://www.main.org/polycosmos/biosquat/kitemoto.htm and was amzed! You experiences for a long time with reciprocating rope energy transfer with fliping flying systems. As you understand, I'm also a big adherent of such idea. Do you still develop KiteMotor projects? What is the current achievement? As for me, I'm sure, that this way is the only one that has chance in the HAWE-Systems.
You write alot about aeroelastic-flutter. I have some doubt about using of elastic materials in kite turbine because it can quicly become worthless. Aso such kind of materials losses elasticity by low temperature. And has different deformation with dufferent wind speed. Of cause, weight of such frequence producer is dramatically small.
I'm thinking now to use Darrieus wind turbine to generate impulses. May be with one blade...
Have you thought about line generator?

Alex
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5622 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: SelfExtraction

SelfExtraction001.jpg

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5623 From: dave santos Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)
Alex,
 
It seems so long ago, things are moving so fast. Yes, i went on to make many more "kitemotors", and still make them, ever better, as experience has grown. I am content to highly refine the designs, until the major funding appears needed to scale large. In fact scaling-up too fast and early is a trap that limits essential agile exploration.
 
You mention the elastic-return phase needed for pumping, and how this is hard for ordinary rubber in your cold weather. Two simple solutions are to use a steel spring, or suspended mass. Yes, elastic return has a small loss, but this can be kept very low (~5%). Elastic return is better than twin systems with alternated pulling, because it is simpler and cheaper, with less potential for failure.
 
Basic Kite Energy has turned out to be very simple. Its not hard to get certain kinds of kites to naturally pulse hard on a line and to convert those pulses into rotary motion to drive a generator. Some folks are going to be very upset when they see just how simple and powerful AWE can be,
 
daveS
    
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5624 From: dave santos Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)
 
The debate has raged as to whether a hotter faster AWE wing naturally beats a lighter one. The trend is for cheap fabric wings to dominate AWE's peak-power demos, and for most new R&D teams to be working with soft kites, but this is weak evidence. The world's top kite engineer, Peter Lynn Sr., has wrestled with the question for some years now, having clearly expected more from hot wings. His thoughtful progression of experience almost settles the case for low-to-moderate wind kite performance-
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5625 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)
All, 
     We will add your NPW-related link and note to the folder:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/NPW/index.html    We will follow and mine this thread of discussion notes also.

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5626 From: Dan Parker Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)
Dave Santos, wrote
 
               "is a trap that limits essential agile exploration."  Very nice, there always is a bright side. I agree in the simplicity factor all the weigh. 
 
                                                                                                                                                                  Dan'l
 

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:18:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [AWES] About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

 
Alex,
 
It seems so long ago, things are moving so fast. Yes, i went on to make many more "kitemotors", and still make them, ever better, as experience has grown. I am content to highly refine the designs, until the major funding appears needed to scale large. In fact scaling-up too fast and early is a trap that limits essential agile exploration.
 
You mention the elastic-return phase needed for pumping, and how this is hard for ordinary rubber in your cold weather. Two simple solutions are to use a steel spring, or suspended mass. Yes, elastic return has a small loss, but this can be kept very low (~5%). Elastic return is better than twin systems with alternated pulling, because it is simpler and cheaper, with less potential for failure.
 
Basic Kite Energy has turned out to be very simple. Its not hard to get certain kinds of kites to naturally pulse hard on a line and to convert those pulses into rotary motion to drive a generator. Some folks are going to be very upset when they see just how simple and powerful AWE can be,
 
daveS
    


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5627 From: harry valentine Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)
Slightly off topic .  .  .  . be interesting for a high elevation kite to tow a glider or a small ground-effect craft.


Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:18:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [AWES] About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)

 

Alex,
 
It seems so long ago, things are moving so fast. Yes, i went on to make many more "kitemotors", and still make them, ever better, as experience has grown. I am content to highly refine the designs, until the major funding appears needed to scale large. In fact scaling-up too fast and early is a trap that limits essential agile exploration.
 
You mention the elastic-return phase needed for pumping, and how this is hard for ordinary rubber in your cold weather. Two simple solutions are to use a steel spring, or suspended mass. Yes, elastic return has a small loss, but this can be kept very low (~5%). Elastic return is better than twin systems with alternated pulling, because it is simpler and cheaper, with less potential for failure.
 
Basic Kite Energy has turned out to be very simple. Its not hard to get certain kinds of kites to naturally pulse hard on a line and to convert those pulses into rotary motion to drive a generator. Some folks are going to be very upset when they see just how simple and powerful AWE can be,
 
daveS
    

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5628 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Tethered system for power generation by Damon Vander Lind, et al
Yes, Doug, good quote. The flow charts are to simplistic to serve as the basis for a working model or program.

I am actually a fan of Makani. Just not a fan of the patent system. It is however about all we have.

Brian

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5629 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Solution to FAA Required Man Carrying a Lantern for Crosswind AW
I must have missed these 2000' zones that you are talking of.
I will address your other comments back in the FAA thread.

Brian

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5630 From: blturner3 Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
Dave S,
Although I feel strongly that the FAA slows innovation. I don't have the level of animosity toward them that I seem to have impressed you with. The written word is not my best communication medium.

I will repeat that I don't think there is any call for manned power generating kites. Or for flying them over populated areas. That level of risk might call for FAA regulations.

I was thinking that we do need something. And I realized that we already have OSHA.(Occupational Safety and Health Administration) I have not spent a lot of time working with OSHA so I can't comment on their culture. But much of what we will be doing in AWE is similar to rigging and our scale is looking to be about the same as cranes.

So for the moment I am thinking that the FAA should regulate the airspace and the operations and airframes should be under OSHA. But I am also thinking that perhaps the individual states may be the final piece of the puzzle. I don't think Maryland and Montana should have the same rules. AWE Kites wouldn't cross state lines.

There is a LOT more to safe AWE than just good aeroengineering. So why limit the safety view to just that?

Brian

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5631 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: SelfExtraction
Neil Larson notes: 
"in "forest fire"  the up draft of warmed air current would increase "lift" and enjoy performance boost ! - "

====Note the topic start graphic did not specify type of wing or method of "shooting" the wing to altitude.   Wayne has a focus on rotor device in a remark: 
Wayne German has noted toward this topic: 
JoeF, 
Like yourself I have been thinking about variations on your "self- extraction" idea.  But first of all, going from no rotor to having a rotor would cause your payload to spin in the opposite direction if engine power were required to spin this puppy up.  But if the rotor were like those of a gyroplane rotor then an air pressure tank could spin it up when it was on the ground and then let it go.  Then the rotor would continue to spin and provide lift when the ground based "rotor speeder upper" let it to.  Then it could climb and hunt around and speed forward and grab ahold of a cable way above after it synced to its speed then the cable way could pull the gyroplane and its load anywhere at the speed that the gyrocopter could accomodate -- such as in a big elipse where Portland and Seattle were its vertices -- or as a big loop going around the world one way when there might be another loop going around the world the other way.  But always big or little gyroplanes could hitch a ride.
 
If the loops were powered from the ground then the gyrocopters would have to detach from one cable and reconnect with another to keep going when the cables would get to a power station.  Alternatively, microwave beams from the ground could heat steam in some units that would attach to the cables also that would drive steam turbines that would be in self contained units so they would never run out of steam -- so power on the ground would generate microwave energy that would drive the steam turbines that would propel the cable ways from a number of different locations to provide redundancy.
 
And finally, when the gyrocopter would get close to the destination -- such as an airport, a shipping yard, a city, etc.... then the gyrocopter would disconnect from the cable ways and fly directly to the destination.  When on the ground and stopped the rotor could then be manually rotated to be over the body of they gyrocopter to where the whole craft would take very little real estate.  Batteries could then drive the wheels to allow it to taxi to where it would be parked.  When the battery could be left trickle charging -- until it is time to taxi out to where the pressure system would be that would be used by everyone at the micro airport to provide just enough power to connect with the cable ways -- or safely abort if necessary and return to the micro airport and try again
 
By the way, the gyrocopters would all have to be monitored and controlled by the cable-way controller agency because it would only be the gyrocopters that would _____... [ED: transmission loss here]
 
-- Wayne German  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5632 From: christopher carlin Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
Having been in the aerospace business and had experience of the FAA and NASA and some of OSHA I would make the following observations.

The FAA doesn't constrain "progress" as much as the airplane manufacturers and ALPA. The manufacturers "bet the company" every time the innovate therefore they are very cautious. Manufacturer design rules and specs generally exceed the minimums set by the FAA. ALPA is very concerned about safety and about job preservation. Introduction of a 2 man cockpit for example was delayed more by ALPA than anybody else. I note drones are being introduced for police use and the first organization to object is ALPA on airspace conflict issues. 

OSHA is unlikely to want to interfere in what would appear to be FAA turf.

For heavens sake try to pick one agency - federal - to regulate us. Multiple regulators do nothing but create more paper work.

Regards,

Chris  
On Feb 16, 2012, at 3:47 AM, blturner3 wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5633 From: Doug Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: About Kitemotor (to Dave Santos)
--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@... ***** Yes Dave S., and you may be foremost among them! ;)*****
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5634 From: Doug Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)
I've spent the last 10 years trying to get working wind turbines to survive. It remains a challenge. Not for people with this skins or people who give up easy. definitely not for people who think they already know all the answers going in.

The four main factors for wind turbine survival are:
1) constant wear on a daily basis,
2) severe structural challenges in severe weather,
3) preventing any undue oscillations that could cause excessive repetitive stress, and of course
4) overspeed protection to prevent burned out generators.

Many, if not most, new entrants to wind energy imagine:
1) useful energy extraction from downwind thrust loading on large surfaces;
2) using stretched cloth to create these surfaces.

It is true that the first turbines thousands of years ago did operate on this principle.
2000 years ago, they transitioned to a circular crosswind path for their sails.
1000 years ago they added wooden frames to support the cloth sails in a "hard" (defined) airfoil shape.

100 years ago they realized that the spars themselves, given an aerodynamic shape, could create more power, more efficiently, and at higher RPM suitable for driving an electric generator, than a spar supporting cloth. They learned that if they did not remove the cloth, it would be torn off by the high speed operation. The cloth became irrelevant, and a hindrance.

From the early 20th century forward, the only cloth successfully integrated into wind energy blades has been in combination with resin to create a hard structure.

Ignore the facts at your own peril, like so many new entrants or would-be entrants to wind energy can always be counted on to do.
Have fun!
:)
Doug Selsam

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5636 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Places for sharing your ideas

Some group spaces beyond our main group here at AirborneWindEnergy
are managed by EnergyKiteSystems   

Your idea, find, or note might fit in one of those sectors. Feel at ease to post messages that fit topic region.

Joining is not necessary to post. 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5637 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
Brian,
 
The idea OSHA should regulate aircraft supposes that only occupational safety applies to AWE, and that ignorance of aviation somehow helps. Its weird, but the FAA is protecting true AWE innovation by predictably slowing Makani's vain obsession with the most dangerous and least efficient (by capital, airspace, and land footprint) AWES concept of any (jumbo autonomous aerobatic endurance E-VTOL). Makani, in my analytical view, is a public-relations bubble unable to cover an almost total lack of aviation expertise. That they blew thru 20+ million (plus Joby) to only have a 22kw toy is therefore rather predictable. Garage AWE will eat them alive, as they are currently going.
 
Since you are a "fan of Makani", can you please explain just how they earned your admiration? Most fans just seem to worship the cheap glow of gigantic financial success Google created by linking Search to Advertising. A recent disclosure is that the Makani kitesurfers only wanted to make a super-fast kite boat, but "Google" asked them to try for AWE, which drove the kitesurfers to commute to Maui in the name of engineering-science and to lease a "humble" Bay Area Navy Airbase on a so far hapless quest to create a major aerospace technology. Where exactly is there anything to truly admire in Makani, compared to the real winners in AWE, who hold the Peak Power Records (~100x Makani) and discovered the key KIS AWE insights (as time will tell)?
 
Then, where in human history did aviation ever run more safely and efficiently than the FAA/ICAO regulated aviation world? Watch how the AWE bubble ventures burn thru fortunes to end up blaming the FAA for a lack of "progress".
 
daveS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5638 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: KiteLab Optimal TarpKite Concept Video
 
A commodity tarp is an large untailored rectangle of fabric. Just add nylon clothesline and fly, if you know how.
 
This tarpkite concept experiment used a single sheet of paper with no folds, just rigged as a simple double curvature minimal surface. The key is a crosswind anchoring geometry, and Shazzam, it flies stablely at a fairly high angle (~60 degrees).
 
It looks like an unbeatably optimal tarp rigging method, as a "flying pixel" for large arrays. Aviation for $5 a pound, just as Fort requested, a personal wind-powered aircraft for about $100, Dave Culp's one tarp AWE Village...
 
Thanks to Joe for stitching and posting the clip-
 
 
coolIP
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5639 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: KiteLab Optimal TarpKite Concept Video
New URL: 
Tarp Flying

Improved video.



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5640 From: dave santos Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: FAA AWES Submissions in Review
The recent submittals to the FAA regarding AWE by existing aviation interests, like AOPA, EAA, NAAA, and some individual experts, give a clear picture of their concerns. Conspicuity is the immediate top issue, with the tether in particular as the biggest fear. General aviation is also feeling squeezed down by Class B airspace from above, and towers and AWES from below.
 
EAA and NAAA reveal distinct low-altitude aviation sectors that would be disproportionally impacted by AWES clutter and sprawl. Brian Rau identified a subtle danger that an approaching pilot might spot an AWES kiteplane, but fail to identify it as a tethered object, and thus fly into an unseen tether.
 
The FAA call prompted normally secretive AWE players to disclose interesting information. Many R&D teams are having trouble with FARs requirements. KiteLab Group's designed-in regulatory compliance is the clearest exception to the trend. Compared to the suave EU input, American AWES submissions mostly look like they were composed on crack, full of typos and gaffes; oh well, whatever. The US aviation community, on the other hand, did a very professional job zeroing in on critical safety gaps.
 
AWEC's submission is mostly a cut-and-paste of Makani's plea to avoid key provisions Part 77, even while claiming to be "eager" to be under these rules. A surprise is the presence in the inclusion of Altaeros, WindLift, and Highest Wind signatures, who were not known to be AWEC members, which means that AWEC's onerous pay-to-play requirement was met or waived.
 
News in Makani's submission is that they finally concede a need for human pilots. Their systems are described as "fully" or "completely" "autonomous", which is not strictly true. "Highly Autonomous" is a more honest claim, as Wing7 requires a pilot-in-command to make all sorts of critical control decisions, like reacting to unexpected failure-modes or sudden weather changes. The other two large and jumbo aircraft don't even exist, yet again Makani marketing-speak fudges present-tense semantics. Like SkySails and KiteLab Group, Makani now invokes SCADA, which is supervised autonomy. Unlike SS and KLG, the Makani pilot may only have five seconds or so to save the aircraft before a crash.
 
Makani requests exemption from key Part 77/101 marker requirements, as "debilitating to performance". They ask to to strobe marker lights at the top and bottom of each loop, to mimic a compliant tower. A problem is that this "virtual tower" will wander up to two miles in weathercocking, and the natural kite-loop cycle is longer than FAA flashing specs. This makes crossing paths more likely with airplanes presuming it to "stand still", or mistake it for multiple separated objects. The flashing lights even precess during vaning, reversing apparent direction capriciously. Also, from most angles, the virtual tower will appear to lean.
 
Makani baldly proposes to not mark its tethers at all, reasoning that they are merely like unmarked mast guy-lines. Again, the geometry of weathercocking is quite different, that as the virtual tower wanders, the imaginary guy wires ultimately encompass a volume comparable to multiple masts.
 
A daytime perceptual danger to looping kiteplanes is that as an approaching VFR pilot scans the sky looking for other traffic. they can fail to glance at just the right moments to spot the kiteplane at the top of its loop pattern, completely overlooking it before mid-air collision. Taken together, so many flaws in conspicuity design seem fatal, especially if EAA and AOPA rebel.
 
Makani's scaling strategy is once again shifting. From the current 20KW experiment (Wing7), a 600KW (M600), and a 5MW (M5) kiteplane are announced. This critical path is equivalent to going from an ultralight, to a DC3, to ultimately a 747 size wing.  It would take about a thousand of these giant kiteplanes to power a major city, at an operational intensity comparable to the busiest airports in the world. Don't tell AOPA or EAA this.
 
We can now roughly estimate Makani's capital cost structure based on the provided aircraft weight predictions using Felker's estimate of $500-per-pound cost for modern production aircraft. Thus Wing7 would run about $75,000 for a 22KW rated device, M600 would run about $1,400,000 for 600KW rated, and M5 about $7,000,000. Presuming a big advantage in accessing better wind seems canceled by high aviation O&M (especially aviation insurance). Thus Makani's complex AWES architecture does not seem competitive with conventional wind, much less "cheaper then coal". This is not even counting the incredible land cost of the sprawling Makani operational geometry (with almost 10X core footprint with a land "stand-off" (crash-zone) or the triple-cost rule-of-thumb for offshore O&M. Makani relentlessly pushes  "material efficiency" compared to conventional HAWTs, but when you factor in Felker's $5-per-pound for HAWT's, Makani's claims seems unjustified. We await their formal economic study to ARPA-E.
 
Makani barely notes radar clutter as a design concern, announcing radar studies to quantify just how brightly their aerobatic carbon fiber E-Flight kiteplanes sparkle, while also supposing that they can substitute non-reflective materials. Internal electrics and conductive tether will still reflect. If Makani is forced to go for for full-on stealth, that's not cheap. Lightning and ESD is claimed will meet MIL-STD, a very high standard; not cheap either.
 
WindLift is a full-on MIL-STD AWES which generally makes for an FAA friendly approach, with an admirable "sense and avoid" capability. Sadly, military specifications are mostly unsuited to civilian markets. A wistful notion stated is that AWES can become "common on the battlefield", even as most of the world deeply hopes to make the battlefield itself uncommon.
 
SkySails' kite is radar transparent, but depends on a conductor in its tether to its control pod, both of which will reflect. One would likely see the the tether coming and going on radar, the wandering catenary creating an illusion of a dim moving flying object up and down its translating trajectory.
 
Alteros also has a conductive tether, and predicts some rotor RCS. presumably due to carbon-fiber blades. Altaeros surprises by disclosing a high-density array option with AMWTs spaced as close as five rotor diameters apart. They also are trying to get-off-the-hook on tether lighting, citing spooling conflicts.
 
Highest Wind hopes the FAA will give its farm systems a pass on Part 77/101 essentials, even as 1700 NAAA members lock N' load to oppose even complaint AWES conspicuity.
 
Wayne German's submission was so exotic it had to be resubmitted several times, with Joe's final intervention, before the US Government finally caved. Its the usual mix of brilliant ideas cloaked in improbable details, a sort of Unabomber-Nostradamus screed worth rereading many times to hunt down every last clue. KiteLab's AWEIA-sponsored TACO, at 44 pages, would have matched the entire output of the rest of the field, had not Wayne been similarly prolific. 
 
KiteLab Group filed in the name of all affiliates. If you are in harmony with the principles set forth, consider this your submission, but register your intent with us. Some key AWE players failed to respond to this call, but they should go ahead and file, if they intend to operate in the "real world". Also missing was an updated edition of Doug's AWE Primer to NASA...
 
 
 
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5641 From: Doug Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
Ay least Makani actually pursues their ideas and is making some level of progress in their chosen direction, rather than merely talk talk talking about it. At least they can make a machine that can deliver some ostensibly useful level of power, for brief periods, under the right conditions, with human supervision. I don't see anyone else doing anything that shows promise.

If an idea shows promise, such as Skywindpower, it sits on hold, not being built, not being run. I'm still tempted to say "there are no serious players in this field". I mean why keep worrying about the FAA when we can't seem to be bothered to get anything in the air anyway?

Also: OSHA would be the right agency for aviation when you are talking about working conditions, repetitive motion injuries for flight attendants, etc. Maybe we should just change the topic of this group to what federal agency is in charge of what...
Oh and taking random stabs at Makani since they are the only ones actually doing anything.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5642 From: blturner3 Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
My point is that there is a lot more to this than aviation. That kites are not aircraft. I know that I will get feedback for splitting hairs on the usage vs the legal definition of aircraft. So here is a link that I doubt will convince anyone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craft_(vehicle)
Craft are vessels that transport. The kites we are talking of for AWE don't transport anything or anybody.

An AWE operator, or driver. I am starting to think he's should not even be called a pilot. Needs to know when he should wear a hardhat, how to tie knots, the difference between working and breaking strength of ropes and countless other concepts that aircraft pilots have no use for.

I was noticing that the FAA proposed rules do only regulate airspace and not kite construction or ground operations. So I feel comfortable in one of Dave's previous statements that the FAA does eventually get it right.

Your Makani question does not belong in this thread. I'll start a new one.

Brian

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5643 From: blturner3 Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: MakaniPower Fans and Detractors
Dave Santos seems to have an strong dislike for Makani. He challenged me to explain why I like them.

They are really doing AWE research. Not just talking about it or playing with toys. I don't have time to defend their methods and accomplishments but I don't think anyone would say their not serious about it.

You can argue that they are not providing a good value for the dollar, but I think that all research at this early stage is high risk and not something that would ever look like a good value. They could be the next Santos Dumont or the next Wright brothers.

If we don't do any research that can't prove itself before it's done then we would just do none.

Brian
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5644 From: christopher carlin Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
I think you're right abut OSHA involvement in the context you're putting it. For example I suspect in the aircraft context ear muffs for ground crew are dictated by OSHA not the FAA. However in terms of system and design constraints I don't think OSHA will have nearly the influence on design and implementation that the FAA will so I wouldn't worry too much about them for the moment. I think in the end the FAA will tend to regulate kite construction based on the fact the system (craft or not) is airborne and in FAA airspace. Again I strongly advise not to get regulated by two agencies on the same issue. It's fine for OSHA to tell someone when to wear a hardhat but OSHA knows nothing about airborne structures so you don't want them levying specs on them. 

Regards,

Chris 
On Feb 17, 2012, at 5:06 PM, blturner3 wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5645 From: Bob Stuart Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: FAA Poor regulator Perhaps OSHA would be better?
OSHA does not seem nearly as likely to impose severe constraints on design and development.   We can argue that anything with a tether is a ground installation.  The FAA has done a good job of helping rich people overcome their fear of flying, but such perfectionism is out of place in trying to replace energy companies that kill poor people in wholesale numbers through pollution.  Any regulating agency could be hijacked by the current vested interests to hinder us.  It is an axiom in aviation that for every pound of aircraft, there is a pound of paper documenting it.  Do we really want such an expense?

Bob Stuart

On 17-Feb-12, at 12:17 PM, christopher carlin wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5646 From: dave santos Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: MakaniPower Fans and Detractors
Brian,
 
I agree that Makani is (increasingly) a "serious" AWE effort, but there are a couple of dozen other efforts worldwide that qualify as "more" serious. The poorly informed popular press often gives the impression that Makani is the only real player, but this a PR fiction Makani creates by spending Google millions on style over substance. Makani's detractors are only a tiny circle of aviation experts, who are not swayed by hype, and do not primp for the media.
 
Had Makani been more serious, they would not have so badly flubbed their essential engineering science due diligence phase (2006-9). They completely overlooked entire AWES architectures far more promising than the one they got stuck with. Its actually a tremendous service they are doing, to show how excess complexity is toxic, so long as there is not collateral damage to the AWE field as the bubble pops.
 
Watch how Makani will *continue* unable to scale-up along any timeline they announce, by (known) engineering factors they blindly failed to account for. There is just no way that tiny team can revolutionize critical aviation reliability, as required by their crazy biz plan. As a friend of most of the core Makani founders, i am sorry to see them futz, on the other hand, they deserve the engineering kitemare they brought on themselves out of hubris, and they did make rather good money and had a ball (for a while).
 
They have a nice back-up option, to change course and follow those teams (like our open source AWE community) who have more sense and depth of experience; there will be plenty of opportunity for all. I look forward to working with them, as they recover from youthful inexperience,
 
daveS
 
PS AWES above a certain weight class operating in the NAS are being provisionally defined as an Aircraft (an UAS) by the FAA, just as KiteLab Group has for years advocated/predicted. Those who do not have to deal with the FAA to fly safely in shared airspace are free to insist otherwise.

  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5647 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: FlygenKite towards both solar energy and AWE

A good perspective for AWE,particulary for FlygenKite.A French company (Wysips - what you see is photovoltaic surface) develops a transparent solar film.

The possibility to harness both wind and solar energies values flygen scheme where wires conduct the two energies,and in first FlygenKite where a great area compensates the low ratio L/D ratio.Morever the solar film could be a protection against UV:so it is a new way for searches.

Solar Airborne Wind Energy (SAWE) could become a reality.

PierreB

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5648 From: dave santos Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Draft //Safety Standards For Human-Lifting Kites
These notes anticipate an extreme-sport boom in human flight with kites, especially as folks suddenly realise how easy and cool this niche of avaition can be. Base Jumping will be a key early application: A validated "flying architecture" will be a long-term development.
 
-----------------------------------
 
Draft Safety Standards For Human-Lifting Kites
 
A core strategy is to borrow established safety standards from Industrial Climbing and Rock Climbing; Parachute Rigging; Ballooning; Sailing; etc.. Use multi-line and multi-sail design redundancy. Flying design must be to parachute rigging standards, but this is an art, with very few quantitative rules. Anchoring must be to engineered standards: The highest load-case safety margins are practical, since the anchors are not flying-weight limited.
 
Weather conditions and forecast must be optimal; low wind, high wind, and turbulent conditions are all dangerous. Spend as little time as possible in the Danger Zone (4-150m). An exception may be to use an apex-hung canopy ready to instantly inflate upon loss of primary lift. An obvious method is to raise the kite system first and then briskly hoist personnel past the Danger Zone.
 
Low altitude safety (~10m) can be enhanced over water, deep soft snow, nets, pads, etc.. Unusual operations contain hidden traps; for example, bungee jumping with a narrow surface tolerance is excessively dangerous, as a kite structure can suddenly relax tension. Dropped objects will be a common constant hazard.
 
Human Factors count- Water, food, and rest breaks make long sessions aloft safer. A radio link (ie cell phone) is essential for high-flight. A piss-bottle is a polite precaution for long sessions. A comfortable resting place is essential, as hanging in a harness too long can cause medical problems.
 
Pilot-In-Command, Riggers/Trimmers, and Spotters are essential roles. Lifting passengers-for-hire invokes special flight regulations. Insurance is a concern for routine operations.
 
Kite-Killers (Slow-Kill) must be usable from both aloft and surface. The principle of a Kite Killer is to controllably release tension to damp or douse a wing, rather than require high retraction force.
 
Common personal safety equipment will include a Climbing Harness, Line Knife, Helmet with neck/jaw protection, and Reserve Parachute (above ~100m).
 
Operations should be under the consensus standards and regulatory umbrella of the closest-related aviation activity. This ranges from towed-glider operations to parachuting.
 
These guidelines will end up in TACO1.1. Please help improve them.
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5649 From: AirborneWindEnergy-owner@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Gaudencio A. Labrador and his now public domain AWES
Could  Gaudencio A. Labrador  be a big player in the history of AWES envisioning?
Recall that descriptions in text in claims have a priority over the graphics.  Click to see his full instruction for many types of works:
Ultimately full unfolding of his teaching may affect AWES practice. 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5650 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Draft //Safety Standards For Human-Lifting Kites
The whole of the following seem cousins to "man-lifted kiting" topic
1. Human-lifted towing (many methods) found in contemporary hang gliding launching and paragliding launching. 
2. Human-lifted-carried free-flight kite systems where the mooring is freely falling through the air (e.g. large sector of hang gliding and paragliding)
3. Pendulumed fliers who kite hung from towers, bridges, poles.    
4. Mobile moorings of man-lifted kite systems.  (Moorings or resistive set: boat, car, truck, ship, aircraft, ultralight, other kite systems, rafts in rivers, water-kites as moorings, parasailing, horses, dog teams, human-pulling-teams, etc.)
5. Fixed-to-ground moorings of man-lifted kite systems. 
6. Kites of the LTA kytoon sort in all the above categories. 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5651 From: roderickjosephread Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Rigid or Soft Wings? (NASA PowerWing Clue)
I'm willing to trust my intuition this time.
The large variance of power output from soft wings needs to be properly matched with an ability to extract and use that power. Stepped level shunting clutched alternators or direct water lifting screw pipes could accept more loading at a faster rpm.
The main issue now is making sure you gradate your seams to spread loads to let your kites live long enough.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5652 From: dave santos Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Hi-Fi Biomimetic Kite Farm Model (Shark Gills)
What will a megascale kite or kite farm of the future look like? Many concepts call for a sprawling pattern of single line AWES, resembling thin sparse hair, but a quick review of shark-gill images reveals a more attractive model for a compact kite farm able to utilize airspace and land footprint up to 100X the sparse models [KiteLab 2011].
 
For over 400 million years, shark-gills have embodied a highly optimal geometry to process flow in order to catalyze blood oxidation (and feed). The gill slit structure is a set of staggered compliant span-loaded wings. Staggering is far better than stacking, as staggered wings condition the flow between wings, acting as detached eddy flaps. Stacked wings interfere with each other, the high pressure under one wing canceling the low pressure over the one below, so kite stacks require enough spacing for the staggered condition to dominate.
 
In the case of kite farms, we know that scaling laws impose severe limits on individual WEC units, that many units must be aggregated into dense non-interfering arrays that are ideally flown as one control process. Shark gills provide a clear model for how to arrange such a fractally recursive fluidic structure. The primary cartilaginous gill wing structure is even called a Gill Arch, just as this sort of crossflow wing is called a Kite Arch, anchored crosswind. The fine harvesting structures are called Gill Lamellae and correspond to Kite Flares as WingMills, or even strings of RATs.
 
Sharks have two general modes of respiration; ram-flow by moving forward, and pumping flow by gulping. Both are interesting AWES models, pure ram in faster flow, and a galloping oscillation in slower flow. Primitive sharks mostly had six Gill-Arches; modern sharks have five, and the bony fishes a one-slit structure. Sharks remain the largest of fishes, so the "divide-and-conquer" scaling principle is suggested, that more Gill Arches serve for larger and/or more primitive designs.
 
KiteLab Ilwaco intends to soon build and test multi-arch TarpKite structures according to the Shark Gill model.
 
coolIP
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5653 From: dave santos Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Gaudencio A. Labrador- AWES Visionary-Extraordinaire
A natural first impression of Gaudencio Aquino Labrador's fevered kite imagination is to mistake it, as i did, as of the Kiting Golden Age, of Victorian Era kite patents in particular. But these AWE brainstorms are contemporary, a steam-punk super-baroque dating from the seventies and eighties, to even recent years; the Inventor is prolific and his mind sustainably hyper-active. It figures that Labrador is Filipino, a deeply spiritual mix of Asian-Pacific native-shamanism and Spanish-colonialism; how else to explain such a exuberant mix of kite-fluidic ideas?
 
One wonders who his patent illustrator was/is, so fully in harmony with "Gaudi's" profuse visions. Some of the illustrations are even Escheresque impossibilities that can only properly exist on paper, in Flatland. In his furious hailstorms of ideas one finds seemingly anything, even "my" polymer-latticed sky megamaterial concepts. AWTs, kytoons, paravanes, Hapas, Laddermills, and so-on, they are all there, superposed in a riotous jungle of thought.
 
Not least is the humor suffusing everything; flying-bicycles and trains of mechatronic "Rein-Deer" kites harnessed to spike-leg "Tarantula" crawlers, with every manner of Rube Goldberg detail, but not depicted cartoonishly, instead more like a medieval torture handbook. The massed absurdities tend to boil down into practical engineering ideas; of real life imitating Willy Wonka and Dr. Seuss.
 
Joe Faust is right, Guadencio qualifies as a key AWES visionary, anticipating by many years key ideas only slowly reemerging in far more boring recent patents, invalidating them, as prior High Art.
 
  1. Patent US5435259 - Rein-deer kite and its control systems - Google ... 

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5655 From: Joe Faust Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Progress on the simple wing

Progress on the simple-surface wing
 BARRETINA HYPER LITE
 Feb. 18, 2012, playing with the new birds:    (one simple surface that is shaped at LE   (not ram-air double surface))
 



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5656 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on the simple wing





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 5657 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on the simple wing
JoeF,DaveS,JohnO,WayneG and all,

Do you think AWEIA can impulse an AWE version from/and or with BARRETINA.Indeed AWE not carrying passengers,its development can be achevied before paragliding version.If we convince BARRETINA for a new supplementary orientation AWEIA can enter a new phase for real AWES.Who among us wants making investments (time,research,money) for such a development?Perhaps me...

PierreB
http://flygenkite.com