Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                 AWES319to377
Page 7 of 552.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 319 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Cheap Powerful Highly-Variable Traction for Reelgen AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 320 From: Bob Stuart Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: RC Kite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 321 From: dave santos Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: More Varidrogue Tricks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 323 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 325 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 327 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 329 From: Dave Culp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 330 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 331 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 332 From: Dave Culp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 333 From: dave santos Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Latest SpiralFoil Study

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 334 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 335 From: dougselsam Date: 10/1/2009
Subject: Need Groundcrew & talent in So Cal

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 336 From: spacecannon@san.rr.com Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Need Groundcrew & talent in So Cal

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 337 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 338 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 339 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 340 From: John O Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 341 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 342 From: John O Date: 10/4/2009
Subject: Re: Kite Driven String Tripod & "Perpetual" Towing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 343 From: harry valentine Date: 10/4/2009
Subject: Re: Kite Driven String Tripod & "Perpetual" Towing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 344 From: dave santos Date: 10/5/2009
Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 345 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/5/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 346 From: harry valentine Date: 10/5/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 347 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 348 From: John O Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 349 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 350 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 352 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 356 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 357 From: harry valentine Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP) - Darrieus

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 358 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 359 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 360 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 361 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: High Altitude Wind Power Conference

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 362 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 363 From: Archer, Cristina Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 364 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 365 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 366 From: Dave Culp Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: High Altitude Wind Power Conference

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 367 From: dougselsam Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Open Letter to NREL and ARPA-E

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 368 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: Open Letter to NREL and ARPA-E

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 369 From: Geoffrey G Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: AWE Wind Balloon

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 370 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: AWE Wind Balloon

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 371 From: dave santos Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 372 From: dave santos Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Sedgwick UFO Kite (correction & link)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 373 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 375 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 376 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 377 From: dave santos Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 319 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Cheap Powerful Highly-Variable Traction for Reelgen AWE
Toward DaveS' focus on cyclic mid-tether variDrogue for pumping fluids or generating electricity. 

Note that the altitude of the mid-tether variDrogue at high and low positions may vary depending on site and application.  Note that the lifter stable kite may be a moderate lifter or a severe lifter. The mechanics and results may span a wide spectrum. 

Scaling of all elements for various purposes seems wide open. With very downwinding stability, vast farms could sprout. Crank or sprag or special hydraulics at the gen groundstation could serve.  I see from toyAWE to utilityAWE in this method class.

Again, I am looking forward to system having a secondary purpose of lifting goods, water, hang gliders, etc. that get released on the upswing for applications even while the generator continues to crank or pump.

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 320 From: Bob Stuart Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: RC Kite
The new "Air Hogs Wind Chaser" uses a radio controlled servo to get two-line performance from a single-line kite.  RC might be used to coordinate a large array of kites sweeping across the wind.

Bob Stuart

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 321 From: dave santos Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: More Varidrogue Tricks
JoeF made an excellent observation that the varidrogue is a solution to controlled power lifting. Previous schemes mostly relied on a crane-like power reel on the ground supposing that kite power would wastefully descend then reascend. But the varidrogue provides working power at altitude. For example, a small varidrogue at each wingtip of a giant kite could steer forcefully with minimal control actuation input.
 
The tritether was recently identified as a switching amplifier, a sort of stringy transistor, & so is the varidrogue (which contains a tritether), but with the advantage of accessing motive power directly. The windfield is thus a convenient distributed power bus to drive logic/power operations anywhere in a kite network.
 
Brooks made a great point about a reversing drive line avoiding some hassles of a loop drive & he sees how a mechanical flip-flop is a simple method of line reversing. By cross-linking two varidrogues with the kill lines passively cycled a giant "soft" flip-flop can be created without a "hard" mechanism. This would drive a double spraged generator nicely.
 
Varidrogues are easily cascaded where a tiny varidrogue acts on the kill line of a larger varidrogue (or multiple varidrogues), which in turn acts on a larger varidrogue, up to vast scales. A vvery potent AWE design language has emerged that is logically comparable to electronics.
 
A very elegant application of varidrogue lifting is to pull thin bags of air deep underwater against an bottom anchor pulley. A high pressure hose to the surface would be a quality energy fount to drive all kinds of processes like, say, desalination. The prechilled air would depressurize at useful refrigeration temps. All this with but string & membrane.
 
The tethered aviation revolution flies on the kitey power of simple low mass string & membrane technology, with fairly universal applications. AWE based on non-kiteyness kills the magic.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 323 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch
Photos and others explanations are on the site.

For OrthoKite,differences with fig.1 b of US3987987 are:
the traction is orthogonal and is on one lever arm then the other lever arm,a winch unwinding aline while another winch winding the other line (not simoultaneous traction).So tangential force is optimal,and there is not radial force.It is possible to maintain the optimal force on the best part on the fly window,to right and to left (it is not really possible with only one lever for similar reasons).

For KiteBunch (seeing the photo on the cover):individual kite lines converge on one point.So the length of the lines can be identical and the kites can be superimposed without excess of space occupation (This device is specially adapted for cross paths).On the contrary with a conventional train of kites,the kites are on the same
line(s).So the space occupation is very important.Moreover the speed of high and low kites can not be identical.

Note:the solar balloon jumping is unnecessary for high jump champions!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 325 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch
Where is the link to click on? 


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:40:47 +0000
Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] OrthoKiteBunch

 

Photos and others explanations are on the site.

For OrthoKite,differenc es with fig.1 b of US3987987 are:
the traction is orthogonal and is on one lever arm then the other lever
arm,a winch unwinding aline while another winch winding the other line
(not simoultaneous traction).So tangential force is optimal,and there is
not radial force.It is possible to maintain the optimal force on the
best part on the fly window,to right and to left (it is not really
possible with only one lever for similar reasons).

For KiteBunch (seeing the photo on the cover):individual kite lines
converge on one point.So the length of the lines can be identical and
the kites can be superimposed without excess of space occupation (This
device is specially adapted for cross paths).On the contrary with a
conventional train of kites,the kites are on the same
line(s).So the space occupation is very important.Moreover the speed of
high and low kites can not be identical.

Note:the solar balloon jumping is unnecessary for high jump champions!




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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 327 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch
That first link didn't work, and that second link requires that I sign up for Yahoo before I can view anything.


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:35:40 +0000
Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] OrthoKiteBunch

 


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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 329 From: Dave Culp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch
Um... this IS a Yahoo Group, after all. Asking you to sign in to use the functionality of a group you are already using--for free--doesn't seem too unreasonable, does it?

Dave

FWIW, the photos are screen grabs of a youtube vid. Available--without signing up for yet another free service--here:  http://www.youtube.com/user/volcine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 330 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: OrthoKiteBunch
I am sorry for links

Click on the left on "Photos",then "OrthoKiteBunch",then "KiteBunch and train of kites" (the sixth photo).
There also are two video links on the first message from Joe Faust.

Pierre Benhaïem
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 331 From: Darin Selby Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch
I was just checking you out, seeing if you're still on the ball.  You pass.


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: dave@kiteship.com
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:01:29 -0700
Subject: Re: [AirborneWindEnergy] OrthoKiteBunch

 
Um... this IS a Yahoo Group, after all. Asking you to sign in to use the functionality of a group you are already using--for free--doesn't seem too unreasonable, does it?

Dave

FWIW, the photos are screen grabs of a youtube vid. Available--without signing up for yet another free service--here:  http://www.youtube. com/user/ volcine




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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 332 From: Dave Culp Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: OrthoKiteBunch
;-)


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 333 From: dave santos Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Latest SpiralFoil Study
Attachments :
    Gotta give Dan credit, highly swept spiraling turbines are hot & formal fluidics has overlooked them. It was quite unexpected that even a crude helical screw beats betz, even exceeding the prevailing doomed pardigm of what "100%" turbine efficiency is. Here's why (i think)- 
     
    In flow a line vortex forms along the screw, builds up downstream, draws in & entrains surrounding flow, interacting with it like a ghostly virtual turbine of greater diameter. The line vortex grows, bursts despun by the flow field, & reforms. These pulses create a ring vortices that pulls fresh flow in to the renewed line vortices. Make the screw turbine ever longer & it extracts ever more flow energy from from the same limited diameter.
     
    The amazing logarithmic spiral kite spintail is not after all a low AR wing; its very long in relation to width. What confuses is how it transitions continuously from a crossflow foil to a fully swept lifting body. The trailing lifting body section is lightly loaded, higher L/D thereby, & develops reflex as needed to dynamically tune the working section into optimal AoA. It actually helps for the root of the spin-tail to be somewhat stalled to start a forceful line vortex. Its also cool how the membrane tensions with incresed rpm by centrifugal force.
     
    The attached spiralfoil01.jpg shows the kite spintail modified to drive a shaft rather than spin on a swivel. I reinforced the root ection of the spiral with a thick wire. In a light wind it starts readily & has outstanding torque. The spiral02.jpg is a detail of a concept sketch for a double spiral turbine & turbine boat. The video clip link below is the unmodified spin-tail turning in a low flow stream-
     
    energykitesystems.net/KiteLab/hydrospintail.mpg

      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 334 From: benhaiemp Date: 9/28/2009
    Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

    photos OrthoKiteBunch then click on the photo with"KiteBunch and train of kites".

    video with elaborated animation on the first 30 secondes 

    video with simplified animation 

    The form of the last comments gives a good representation of OrthoKiteBunch working:right,left,right,lift...;)

    Pierre Benhaïem

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 335 From: dougselsam Date: 10/1/2009
    Subject: Need Groundcrew & talent in So Cal
    Hi everyone:
    I'm based in Southern California.
    I'm looking for people with trucks, tools, willing hands, computer skills (recording data and CAD including machine layout and mold design) - any of the above to help out with setups and logistics, data acquisition, an upcoming film shoot with Discovery Channel and others. There is no upper limit to where this could go (excuse the pun) although I am also pursuing ground-based, tower-supported solutions.
    The locations include my current shop location in Fullerton, near Disneyland, coastal and especially desert sites such as Palmdale, Victorville, Hesperia, Tehachapi, Boron, and Palm Springs.
    It can be a lot of work but is always interesting and usually fun.
    Thanks
    Doug Selsam
    Selsam Innovations / Superturbine Inc. / U.S. Windlabs
    2600 Porter Ave. Unit B
    Fullerton, CA 92833
    714-992-5594
    http://www.Selsam.com
    Doug@Selsam.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 336 From: spacecannon@san.rr.com Date: 10/2/2009
    Subject: Re: Need Groundcrew & talent in So Cal
    Doug,
    I have alot of those skills, and I live in So-Cal, but I need help with my Calif. Energy Commission Grant, want to trade: scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
    Lynn Potter
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 337 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2009
    Subject: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck
    Attachments :
      Washington State International Kite Festival (WSIKF) is a top kiting event with lots of history, like Osborne's monstrous 17,000 sq ft foil killing Edieken or the setting of the official kite endurance record. Its in recent years a cradle for AWE.
       
      The Great Train Wreck
       
      WSIKF 09 began with "kite train & arch day" hosted by Kay Buesing, director of the nearby World Kite Museum. By deliberate vision, kiter's back in the eighties set out to establish the Pacific NW as kite train & arch center of the world & so it became. Dozens of trains & arches were now flying at once. KiteLab flew its big AWE utility arch & did halyard experiments. My train & arch apprenticeship continued by crewing & studying three very different thousand-foot-plus trains.
       
      Iqbal Husein's was 250 diamonds on a Kevlar line. It shows transverse waves of all kinds going up & down & spiraling either way. He pumps energy into the line to launch in low wind. There is potential to phase control such kites & make powerful coherent AWE tugs much as a protozoan flagellum works, but in reverse. Ravi Chandar, a UTexas AE prof, flagellum dynamicist, & AWE watcher, would dig the application.
       
      For the third year now i helped with Jim Patton's towering classic train (up to 1500 ft alt.) managing to "kiterun" a loose Delta Conyne (failure mode- a parted swivel shackle) from a thicket. Jim is often expertly assisted by Joe & Dale Link. It can take three hours to raise or lower the train, continuously rigging or unrigging all the elements. Jim is the bad boy of the fest, always in trouble with official buzy-bodies. In the middle of the fest he dissappeared in protest & flew at my normal kite spot down the road at the Port of Ilwaco. I was so proud for the refugee train to visit. My old page documenting Jim's methods-
       
       
      Biking to the fest on the third day i freaked to see Jim's train close to Iqbal's train. The "kite chaos" turbulence hypothesis predicted collision. I took a picture [attch. jpg] as i warned the crews. Suddenly the Great Train Wreck happened, the two vast trains hooked up. 
       
      Iqbal's Kevlar tether might easily saw Jim's train loose & a vast tower of kites would sail for miles out over the Lower Columbia River. Its a major AWE failure mode, that kites in reach of each other will "fight" & cutaway quickly, often before the tangle is noticed. I proposed that the trains be immediately unanchored & separated by hand(ful). Luckily they pulled apart with only minor damage.
       
      Terry McPherson set a new record 37 fighters off one line. He let me hand fly the train & wind it up as he walked it down, shareing his master tricks all the while. He finds that when he flies at least four of the chaotic fighters the uncertainty cancels enough for the train to reliably stay up, an important principle for AWE. Here is a cool youtube video of his previous record.
       
      www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gN-DJrITp8
       
      They all go ape, a real spectacle, but this time, in the higher winds along this coast, the fighters all weirdly stabilized by developing keel along their spines like eddy-malays. This limits surge/sweep energy in high wind, a mechanism counter to normal kite destabilization.
       
      Conclusion-
       
      100 plus years of kite train & arch experience proves multi-kite arrays are a powerful technique, but with unique challenges. Properly flown they will prove a good AWE scaling strategy. A child can launch a powerful train from a small box. One leading train freak confessed online that he had pulled up a fire hydrant with his box of kites & made a quick getaway.
       
      NEXT: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos
       

        @@attachment@@
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 338 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 10/3/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck [1 Attachment]
      Thanks Dave,
      The link to Peter Lynn's safety piece was particularly in need.
      Regards.
      John


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 339 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck [1 Attachment]
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 340 From: John O Date: 10/3/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck
      Joe,I did not see your comments.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 341 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 1- The Great Train Wreck
      --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "John O" <hardensoftintl@... John,
      The photo was the entire message. I called the photo to the message list in a different way. The photo is DaveS' photo of trainwreck.jpg showing the collision of two kite trains. The Yahoo attachment system had some malfunction, so I supplied the photo in another way.

      FURTHERING:
      Kite trains of trains of kytoons has been only slightly covered in the literature. Trains of small kytoons ....either LTA or HTA kytoons are options.

      Trains of self-reinflating LTA kytoons are placed up for consideration for AWE. The self-inflation derives from some mechanism aloft at the kytoon that generates hydrogen from atmospheric ambient moisture split by use of electricity derived either by use of solar radiation converters or kite-motoer electricity or both (noting these two methods does not suggest that there might not be other methods of getting the split water aloft or of getting self-inflation; e.g.---holding out for some membrane that drives in ambient hydrogen from membrane surface into bladder and holds such).

      One aim of such LTA self-inflating trains is for an "ever-up" AWE system that utilizes severe lifter while working oscillators are lower on the line, perhaps very much lower on main tether to get swaths or actions for driving levers, etc., better than if such oscillators were higher. The lifter can be out of sight and the oscillators low, if neighborhood invisibility was an environmental polite response.

      Cheers,
      JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 342 From: John O Date: 10/4/2009
      Subject: Re: Kite Driven String Tripod & "Perpetual" Towing
      Interesting.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 343 From: harry valentine Date: 10/4/2009
      Subject: Re: Kite Driven String Tripod & "Perpetual" Towing
      There may be potential to development very large tripod systems, using secure poles at the corners of a very large triangle. Tension cables may be carried by pulleys attached to other poles.
       
      Will KiteGen and KiwiGen revise their carousel concept in view of recent tripod research?
       
      Harry

      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: hardensoftintl@yahoo.com
      Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 17:09:31 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Kite Driven String Tripod & "Perpetual" Towing

       

      Interesting.


      New! Open Hotmail faster on the new MSN homepage!
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 344 From: dave santos Date: 10/5/2009
      Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      Hills & mountains present localized opportunities for high density wind power. Cables strung in midair between these natural towers are cheap simple reliable means to place wind power elements in good wind. This is Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
       
      The Technology
       
      Mountains of about 12,000 ft are quite common & cable runs of several kilometers are easily applied. Membrane wing-mills of up to about 1000 x 100 ft are manageable 10mw class elements to hang from terrain. Aggregation to gigawatt scale would be feasible at good sites.
       
      Initial runs of cable could be heddle-pulleyed to amplify amplitude & speed of power pulses. Multiple wing arrays would fan-in & aggregate power in stages as the cables run downward. Multi-spragged shafts accept asynchronous kicks from wing-mills that by stages are "refined" into smooth aggregated power. Moving cable loops will run quite nicely down to populations far below the mountain tops.
       
      Every category of wind power element can hang from terrain- turbines, wing-mills, & varidrogues of every description could find niches. Even simple hollows in the ground look valuable to leave hanging kite elements in calm that reliably relaunch to higher altitude when wind returns. Generators can be hung midair from terrain much more safely than flying on a tether. Hardware suspended from terrain considerably relaxes engineering weight allowances. Furling & hotswapping will be parctical.
       
      Anchoring to mountains could ideally resemble from low impact rock climbing, scaled up, where an array of wedges & specialty anchors borrow existing features. Suspension bridge practice has models for anchoring in poor media. Areial tramway & cableway tech provides a vast pool of soultions for TEWP.
       
      Cables strung on terrain are far more reliable than kites or UAVs. While the best sites are rare, nobody is using them yet. A handful of mountain sites even reach the lower stratosphere. TEWP will be an outstanding opportunity to refine high altitude AWE tech.
       
      The Resource
       
      Mountains have diverse wind mechanisms. Gap winds are amplified flow across mountain ridges set across a prevailing wind. Valley winds have a nice feature of being fairly straight & clean in the center of the jet. Ridges that run parallel to prevailing wind still allow numerous cables to be strung across the flow. Mountains can create gap & valley winds driven merely by daily heating & cooling. Sea breezes can drive nice amplified gap winds at low altitudes.
       
      North & South America's "Sierra Madres" taken together represent the biggest TEWP gap wind resource as these mountain ranges stretch across prevailing global wind. Many other ranges, like the Urals, Appalacia, Japanese Alps, & Norway's coast range are well situated. Certain gaps are ideal, like the Columbia River Gorge.
       
      Modifying wind has environmental consequences. Slower kite-like elements are far more bird friendly than high speed turbines. At a distance TEWP cables are invisible & the wing elements can be camouflaged to match sky of terrain. Light grey will particularly disappear against a sky. A cautious TEWP approach would only block about 20% of a local flow & monitor for ecological damage. In some places increased wind caused by climate change might even be mitigated.
       
      [This is a KiteLab Group cooperative IP disclosure]
       

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 345 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/5/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      We should probably look for favorable geography that already has a power transmission line handy as a market entry point.

      Remote communities might also be pioneers for these installations.  AWE installations save on transportation costs, and can make a financial success even with a prototype that mules out, as long as it can still compete with imported diesel.

      Bob Stuart




      On 5-Oct-09, at 3:38 PM, dave santos wrote:

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 346 From: harry valentine Date: 10/5/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      There are many parts of the world where terrain enabled wind power has definate possibilities. Powerful winds blow off the Northeastern Atlantic and right up the fiords of Norway and off the Northeastern Pacific up the inlets of British Columbia. A similar situation exists in Southern Chile and parts of Peru, as well as in the mountains of Central America.
       
       
      There is also a boundary layer effect that can steer winds around many gently curved entrances to many mountain valleys and the winds then directed by the "channel effect". The effect is similar to the boundary layer effect that occurs on the top surface of airplane wings.
       
       
      The lateral-axis turbine from BroadStar of Texas can be coupled using flexible drive-joints when cable-suspended across valleys, to allow multiple turbines to drive wach electrical alternators. Such a layout can reduce overall capital cost per kilowatt.
       
       
      Unfortunately, governments have directed funding into developing tower based wind turbines and next to nothing on airborne and towerless wind technologies.
       
       
      Harry
       

      To: airbornewindenergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: santos137@yahoo.com
      Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:38:12 -0700
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

       
      Hills & mountains present localized opportunities for high density wind power. Cables strung in midair between these natural towers are cheap simple reliable means to place wind power elements in good wind. This is Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
       
      The Technology
       
      Mountains of about 12,000 ft are quite common & cable runs of several kilometers are easily applied. Membrane wing-mills of up to about 1000 x 100 ft are manageable 10mw class elements to hang from terrain. Aggregation to gigawatt scale would be feasible at good sites.
       
      Initial runs of cable could be heddle-pulleyed to amplify amplitude & speed of power pulses. Multiple wing arrays would fan-in & aggregate power in stages as the cables run downward. Multi-spragged shafts accept asynchronous kicks from wing-mills that by stages are "refined" into smooth aggregated power. Moving cable loops will run quite nicely down to populations far below the mountain tops.
       
      Every category of wind power element can hang from terrain- turbines, wing-mills, & varidrogues of every description could find niches. Even simple hollows in the ground look valuable to leave hanging kite elements in calm that reliably relaunch to higher altitude when wind returns. Generators can be hung midair from terrain much more safely than flying on a tether. Hardware suspended from terrain considerably relaxes engineering weight allowances. Furling & hotswapping will be parctical.
       
      Anchoring to mountains could ideally resemble from low impact rock climbing, scaled up, where an array of wedges & specialty anchors borrow existing features. Suspension bridge practice has models for anchoring in poor media. Areial tramway & cableway tech provides a vast pool of soultions for TEWP.
       
      Cables strung on terrain are far more reliable than kites or UAVs. While the best sites are rare, nobody is using them yet. A handful of mountain sites even reach the lower stratosphere. TEWP will be an outstanding opportunity to refine high altitude AWE tech.
       
      The Resource
       
      Mountains have diverse wind mechanisms. Gap winds are amplified flow across mountain ridges set across a prevailing wind. Valley winds have a nice feature of being fairly straight & clean in the center of the jet. Ridges that run parallel to prevailing wind still allow numerous cables to be strung across the flow. Mountains can create gap & valley winds driven merely by daily heating & cooling. Sea breezes can drive nice amplified gap winds at low altitudes.
       
      North & South America's "Sierra Madres" taken together represent the biggest TEWP gap wind resource as these mountain ranges stretch across prevailing global wind. Many other ranges, like the Urals, Appalacia, Japanese Alps, & Norway's coast range are well situated. Certain gaps are ideal, like the Columbia River Gorge.
       
      Modifying wind has environmental consequences. Slower kite-like elements are far more bird friendly than high speed turbines. At a distance TEWP cables are invisible & the wing elements can be camouflaged to match sky of terrain. Light grey will particularly disappear against a sky. A cautious TEWP approach would only block about 20% of a local flow & monitor for ecological damage. In some places increased wind caused by climate change might even be mitigated.
       
      [This is a KiteLab Group cooperative IP disclosure]
       




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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 347 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/6/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
        TEWP  Terrain Enhanced Wind Power 
      • Spiders are leaders on this realm; they form webs from terrain and terrain-based structures. Insects  by flight and wind become little kites as they get caught in webs. The motion is part of the game of energy exchange; motion warns the spider; the kited insect caught becomes food converted to energy for the spider.  
      • Pierre Benhaïem has forwarded many TEWP concepts.
      • Harry Valentine  has supplied many drawings re: TEWP
      • M344 begins a thread of discussion on TEWP
      • Count buildings as terrain. Dams, skyscrapers. decommissioned hard-towers of ground-hugging wind power turbines.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 348 From: John O Date: 10/7/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      The prominence of Skyscrapers in Urban Centres and Business Districts often built within close proximity of one another provides a good opportunity for TEWP and AWE especially if EU-TEWP could be deployed for powering lifts in these building amongst other uses that might include pumping water from on-site bore-holes.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 349 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/7/2009
      Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

      With thanks to Joe for welcome.

      Turbine of type Darrieus between mounts or buildings 

      Simulation on an animation between EDF (Electricité de France) building and another building 

      Application for a French patent  FR2927671  (A1).

      There are horizontal axis turbines of type Darrieus,and (concepts of) devices between mounts,but not yet horizontal axis turbines of type Darrieus between mounts or buildings.

      Advantages:higher area swept (not only between but also in altitude),simplicity,easy anchoring.However Darrieus turbines are known for risonance problems.Maybe theese problems can be avoid with new materials as "tensairity" which lightness also would make easier the fabrication of great blades.

       

       

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 350 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/7/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      Maybe that's what a tear in the fabric of space time would look like, too.


      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
      Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:53:31 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

       

      With thanks to Joe for welcome.
      Turbine of type Darrieus between mounts or buildings 
      Simulation on an animation between EDF (Electricité de France) building and another building 
      Application for a French patent  FR2927671  (A1).
      There are horizontal axis turbines of type Darrieus,and (concepts of) devices between mounts,but not yet horizontal axis turbines of type Darrieus between mounts or buildings.
      Advantages:higher area swept (not only between but also in altitude),simplicit y,easy anchoring.However Darrieus turbines are known for risonance problems.Maybe theese problems can be avoid with new materials as "tensairity" which lightness also would make easier the fabrication of great blades.
       
       



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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 352 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/7/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      It looks like this is what would happen if one were to fly through the center of it when it appears as if it "opens": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Rw2i2iXYs

      Seriously, how is something that would span such a great distance be able to keep its intended shape?  Especially with any kind of torque from spinning a generator at one or both the ends?  

      The torque issue can be cancelled by many contra-rotating pairs of propeller blades, with small generators in-between each pair.  Have them placed at intervals on a tension wire that's stretched across the same span.   







      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
      Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 03:11:15 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

       




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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 356 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      With new light structures as "Tensairity" elements for beams and kites light rigid 50 m span kites are studied.So it would be possible to conceive an enough rigid gigantic Darrieus rotor with beams and blades with theese elements.

      The device you describe has a limitated area swept to the high of the small turbines.Generators and blades are on the too sollicited wire.

      For the video:out of subject.

       

      Darin Selby wrote:

      It looks like this is what would happen if one were to fly through the center of it when it appears as if it "opens": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Rw2i2iXYs


      Seriously, how is something that would span such a great distance be able to keep its intended shape?  Especially with any kind of torque from spinning a generator at one or both the ends?  

      The torque issue can be cancelled by many contra-rotating pairs of propeller blades, with small generators in-between each pair.  Have them placed at intervals on a tension wire that's stretched across the same span.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 357 From: harry valentine Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP) - Darrieus
      Single large transverse Darrieus will need to be mounted on spring suspension system if built between spaces between tall buildings in cities. Transverse-axis turbines from BROADSTAR WIND SYSTEMS can be coupled using cardan joints and suspended by cables across valleys.
       
      Harry
       

      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
      Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:59:58 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

       

      With new light structures as "Tensiraity" elements for beams and kites light rigid 50 m span kites are studied.So it would be possible to conceive an enough rigid gigantic Darrieus rotor with beams and blades with theese elements.
      The device you describe has a limitated area swept to the high of the small turbines):generator s and blades are on the too sollicited wire.Morever there are flow interferences between each propeller blades of  contra-rotating pairs of propeller blades,so energy lost.
      For the video:out of subject.
       
      Darin Selby wrote:
      It looks like this is what would happen if one were to fly through the center of it when it appears as if it "opens": http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=Q6Rw2i2iXYs


      Seriously, how is something that would span such a great distance be able to keep its intended shape?  Especially with any kind of torque from spinning a generator at one or both the ends?  

      The torque issue can be cancelled by many contra-rotating pairs of propeller blades, with small generators in-between each pair.  Have them placed at intervals on a tension wire that's stretched across the same span.   



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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 358 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      I guess that by sending that email four times, means that you must be really serious with being right about your design.  That's okay, in fact, that's really okay, because you have just given to me an incredible, much different idea from your own.  And why would I want to share this new concept with someone who has no sense of humor?


      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
      Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:58:12 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

       

      With new light structures as "Tensairity" elements for beams and kites light rigid 50 m span kites are studied.So it would be possible to conceive an enough rigid gigantic Darrieus rotor with beams and blades with theese elements.
      The device you describe has a limitated area swept to the high of the small turbines.Generators and blades are on the too sollicited wire.
      For the video:out of subject.
       
      Darin Selby wrote:
      It looks like this is what would happen if one were to fly through the center of it when it appears as if it "opens": http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=Q6Rw2i2iXYs

      Seriously, how is something that would span such a great distance be able to keep its intended shape?  Especially with any kind of torque from spinning a generator at one or both the ends?  

      The torque issue can be cancelled by many contra-rotating pairs of propeller blades, with small generators in-between each pair.  Have them placed at intervals on a tension wire that's stretched across the same span.



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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 359 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      Pierre had an email glitch & the best way to deal with off-topic issues like that is off-list.
       
      Darius & savonius turbines are cursed by return-side drag. Their aero surfaces are poor performers by either bad form or  trim. They are high-mass high capital-cost pigs. Their visual appeal keeps them alive many decades after performance oriented aerodynamicists dropped them.
       
      What i first saw in Pierre's cool impressions was a membrane wing mill, which is far less scale limited & performs with a more birdlike efficiency, especially by mass, than a bad turbine. Picture a bird-like "gallloping" wing form suspended across a gap rather than a wind-belt flutter-tape.
       
      Pierre's earlier AWE scheme with the trains of sweeping kites would work well suspended across terrain in a prevailing wind, preventing snarls.
       



      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 360 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

      Pierre, DaveS, DarinS, HarryV, have started to expose a wide variety of TEWP AWECS. DaveS suggested that just about any known AWECS form may have a niche place in terrain-using AWECS. The first emphasis by Pierre on Darrieus sets a scene for other considerations.  Mounting a cable, hang from a cable, using the cable as a working element, etc. seems to provide a rich space for design.   Recall HarryV's drawings:

      http://www.energykitesystems.net/HarryValentine/BoundaryLayerValleyEntrance.jpg
      http://www.energykitesystems.net/HarryValentine/Valley-Sails-Desert.pdf
      http://www.energykitesystems.net/HarryValentine/Valley_Boundary_layer.pdf

      Reaching for an element, I bring a quick sketch of a scheme that could pump water to a high lake; drop the lake water through a hydro turbine.

       
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 361 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: High Altitude Wind Power Conference
       
      The HAWP (High Altitude Wind Power) Conference in Northern California next month is looking hot. All the major start-ups are gearing up, but the event needs more participation by academia & the best small developers.
       
      Anyone want to carpool from Pacific NW? I'd like to take some small KiteLab show-&-tell & would gladly cover expenses.
       
       
      www.hawpconference.org/agenda.html

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 362 From: dave santos Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP
      The ambiguity of what is meant by "high altitude" AWE or HAWP has been a considerable irritation to the Tinfoil Hat Club. Three terms are needed-
       
      HAWP- High Altitude Wind Power
      MAWP- Mid Altitude Wind Power
      LAWP- Low Altitude Wind Power
       
      These are the rough subsets of AWE airspace. The zones have fuzzy contextual boundaries, but aviation usage & history allows the "centroid" of each zone to be crudely defined. Without excess explanation, Low Altitude is centered about 500ft, Mid Alt centers around 5000ft, & High Alt about 50,000ft (or higher).
       
      Hope this helped.
       
      Notes-
       
      Aviation altitude is by global convention given in English feet, even though the French dissent. Yes feet are archaic, but there is an advantage- when you see feet in a working aviation context, its altitude.
       
      Another important functional altitude distinction- ASL- Above Sea Level AGL- Above Ground Level
       
      If you put a wind tower atop Everest its HAWP but not AWE.
       
      Airspace distinctions will be a related topic for the list.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 363 From: Archer, Cristina Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP
      To add to the confusion ... the HAWP conference includes all altitudes, from low to medium to high. As long as it's floating in the air, we consider it a high-altitude device. 

      Regards,
      Cristina
      *****************************************************
        Cristina L. Archer

        Assistant Professor
        Department of Geological and Environmental Sciences
        Holt Hall, Room 312
        California State University, Chico
        Chico, CA 95929-0205
        Tel. +1 (530) 898 5618
        carcher@csuchico.edu

        Consulting Assistant Professor
        Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
        Stanford University
        Stanford, CA 94305
        http://www.stanford.edu/~lozej
        lozej@stanford.edu
      *****************************************************

      On Oct 8, 2009, at 4:18 PM, dave santos wrote:


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 364 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)

      Precisions for messages:

      I post a precedent message 4 times and delete 3 times for different reasons:transcription difficulties,mistakes on contra-rotating blades,and on "Tensairity" name (not "Tensiraity").

      It is interesting for me to correspond with Dave,Darin,Harry.AWE and TEWP are good subjects because of the mix of simplicity and extrem complexity.

      On turbine outputs,classical turbines are about 60% Betz limit,Darrieus 40%,Savonius 20%.Darrieus and classical turbines work with lift,Savonius with differential drag.Solidity coefficient of Savonius turbine is about 1 (area swept = surface of blades):so great rotors are not possible.Solidity coefficient of  classical turbines are about 0,1 and lesser for Darrieus turbines.

      Problems of Darrieus turbine are (with described problems by Harry,except for solidity coefficient):great peripheric masses,risonances,but not really output (lesser but not so bad,see Cap-Chat,4 MW Darrieus turbine).Maybe it would be possible to produce a good shape with Tensairity elements if solid parts cross the wind;and also maybe with high pressure inflatable blades.

      New firms as Ropatec  produce turbines of type Darrieus ("H "version) with a good output,and new light matters could change some characteristic on Darrieus turbine.

      Classical propeller blades are better than Darrieus turbines but their position between mounts or buildings are less natural,and their area swept capacities are lower for this context.The shape of Darrieus blades can follow the relief.

      OrthoKiteBunch works according to all wind directions with the swivelling tray.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 365 From: Darin Selby Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: Terrain Enabled Wind Power (TEWP)
      After seeing the single Darrieus rotor design that would span between two peaks, or buildings, I was giving it some more thought.  It would appear that many contra-rotating Darrieus rotors, across the same cable tension line, would be a more reliable system.  In other words, one rotor spins one way, the next one spins the other way, etc.  

      In-between each rotor is a generator system.  The housing(s) of a generator system is attached to the end of one Darrieus rotor, the armature is attached to the next.  How this would be accomplished?  The main thing is to design the blades, and the generators, so that they can be easily removed, and replaced from around the tension cable.  

      This could mean having three generators, that are equilaterally-balanced around the end of a spinning Darrieus rotor.  Three friction gears, one from each generator, roll over a"tube" surface, that is centered on the cable with bearings.  That tube spins the other direction; since it is connected to the next-in-line "contra"-spinning rotor.  So then, it'sdouble-time, for the spinning of each generator!

      With the presently-designed system mentioned in the forum, eventually the maintenance of the two HUGE blades will have to be dealt with.  As well, there will be much torsion applied upon them in high winds.  Having large generators at each end, with their resistance torque factors, will greatly contribute to the stressing along the long span of these two blades.

      This design that I am presenting, uses much smaller, more manageable Darrieus rotor units, that are placed side-by-side, like on a string of beads, and all are contra-spinning on this tension cable.  Being stretched across a vast span of area, it will make the entire system much more durable, easier to work on, and easier to replace any defective part.  

      The generators can also be switched over to be motors, to kick-start the Darrieus rotors into spinning at their optimal rotation.   

      How to accomplish any repairs?  Well, I would prefer using an airship over a helicopter, for the job of lowering a person(s) down to replace a defective unit.  Perhaps a blimp could actually be set aside, and ready in a hangar, just for this purpose?  

      I have recently found information on how to safely make the use of hydrogen as the lifting gas in a blimp. US 20040155149  Basically, it is a balloon-in-a-balloon.  The inner envelope is filled with hydrogen.  The outer, slightly-larger envelope is filled with a "blanket" ofnitrogen.  

      Why go to all this trouble?  Why not just use non-flammable helium as the lifting gas?  Because helium is a non-renewable government-controlled gas.  It takes about $1000 of it to lift 300 pounds, with a 20 ft. diameter balloon.  

      Doing it this new way protects the H2 from contacting the O2.  And the entire process is then decentralized.  Pressure swing adsorption (PSA) of compressed air through a zeolite sieve, will make the nitrogen gas.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_swing_adsorption 

      The very energy substance that this string of Darrieus rotors could produce, could be hydrogen gas.  It would then be not only the gas to run the fuel cells, which run a compressor to make the nitrogen, etc., but also the lifting gas for doing any repairs by utilizing a blimp!

      Here is a short rhyming story that I've written around this balloon-in-a-balloon airship concept.  And, this one spins like a football being thrown through the air!  This will make the overall size of the envelope needed to be much smaller, to lift the same amount of weight:  http://darinselby.1hwy.com/spinningairshipglider03.html



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      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 366 From: Dave Culp Date: 10/8/2009
      Subject: Re: High Altitude Wind Power Conference
      Hey, is anybody from you guys' organization going to speak? They're soliciting speakers.

      Also how many are going to go? Registration's $125 (cheap!) $35 for students (even cheaper!)

      Dave

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 367 From: dougselsam Date: 10/9/2009
      Subject: Open Letter to NREL and ARPA-E
      Hi all:
      After filing my first wind energy patent several years ago, I remember waiting for the phone to ring. I was expecting a call from NREL: knowing that they were a federal agency charged with leaving no stone unturned in the quest for improved wind turbines etc., I figured that they must, as part of the federal system, closely monitor patent applications, to stay abreast of breakthroughs in wind energy. I expected a call something like this: "Wow Doug this is a verrrry interesting new way to look at wind energy you've introduced, that solves so many problems simultaneously - congratulations and what can we do to help?" or even "We see the solutions you've worked so hard to reveal and would like to help you develop this particular one."

      Well the phone never stops ringing, and sometimes it IS NREL, but they never call to say they want to explore or develop any new technology. Mostly they ask me to apply for more events and grants, and sometimes they ask for fees to help fund them.

      One aspect I thought they might find interesting was that I showed you can get unlimited power at any diameter, and that Betz is left far in the dust, with regard to the normal hamstrung interpretation of Betz, that power is strictly limited with regard to diameter.

      Another aspect I thought they might find interesting was a solution to a most persistent problem of excessive blade mass, tooling costs, and transport issues for the giant blades: that with a viable way to combine the power of many rotors, any power level could be achieved using rotors of any diameter, with small rotors gathering 400 watts per pound, that is an order of magnitude improvement in use of blade material.

      My training in science told me that "order of magnitude" improvements were hugely significant. I was taught that scientists were smart, well trained, and could easily recognize such advantages on first principles. Indeed, I was taught that recognizing such first principles was the main job of science.

      Then again I was also taught that science is normally completely unresponsive to breakthroughs, and that the old guard had to die off before new knowledge was actually recognized and assimilated - that is sad.

      I thought that introducing a new type of floating offshore turbine that promised to solve many of the permitting and foundation issues with offshore wind energy would at least get a notice.

      I thought that introducing the concept of helium/hydrogen-filled blades for turbines that were naturally buoyant, needing no tower might get a few scientists excited.

      I thought that showing how to suspend turbines between landforms, using a single moving part, to eliminate the towers, simplify the turbines, and expand the range of wind energy might turn a few heads in the scientific community.

      I thought that a new type of Darrieus rotor that solved the persistent problem of holding the blades against centrifugal force by weaving them into a cylindrical mesh might at least be noticed.

      I thought that showing how this could be implemented across canyons etc., whereby an entire 1 mW+ turbine could be extruded from a small pultrusion die might qualify as a breakthrough in official scientific circles.

      I thought that showing how to harness ocean currents using a fraction of the material would be jumped on, rather than seeing companies wasting millions of dollars breaking off too-large blades in the Hudson River and Orkney Islands, without a viable technology to this day.

      I thought all these agencies and scientists were interested in solutions. I thought they wanted to build turbines. I thought they were engaged.

      Then I attended my first AWEA Windpower convention and started to see what was really going on. I remember the reason I was so excited to attend the AWEA show: I knew NREL would be hosting an exhibit booth, and I COULDN'T WAIT to meet all the NREL wind energy scientists, and have long and fascinating discussions about all the possibities - all the new machines we could build, all the problems that could be so easily solved with new ways of doing things! I was so excited!!!

      So I started walking the exhibit floor to find the great NREL booth. I walked and walked, and didn't see any NREL booth. Finally I had to look it up. Oh, I guess I had walked by it several times and not noticed it. The NREL booth was deserted: a couple of card tables and an Air 403 turbine on a little stand. A few pamphlets at an unmanned booth - no scientists to talk to, no real displays, no talk of any progress, no proudly displayed results of latest research projects. No, I had found the crappiest booth at the whole show, a booth unmanned most of the time, except once in a while staffed by a nice lady who seemed like she should be working at an elementary school.

      I had found the one booth with absolutely nothing to say to anyone, and therefore nobody there to say it. I had found "The Wizard of Oz" - the man behind the curtain, and that man was a woman, when there was anyone there at all, and she knew nothing of the technology and was simply there to be an occasional warm body in the booth, to let people know that there was nobody there they could talk to, should they ask, - and why would there be? From their viewpint, there was nothing to talk about anyway, since no progress was likely. Wow, it was far beyond my lowest expectations, and it has gone downhill from there ever since.

      My latest info is that ARPA-E considers wind energy a mature technology, and are not interested in wind energy research.

      I've been asked to submit proposals many times, have complied, and it was a waste of time. Since I am the only one pursuing these ideas, the grant proposal process has only served to stop my progress it its tracks.

      Every year I am invited to apply to present at the NREL Industry Growth Forum. Every year I dutifully drop everything to apply, and am routinely refused on the basis that I do not have enough money behind me, a good enough "business plan", etc.

      I wonder, when in the field of science has a business plan been part of a new scientific paradigm? Do these bureaucrats really expect that one person could file all those patents, apply for all those grants, build all those prototypes, make a living manufacturing and selling turbines (just to prove it is viable), and still have time to formulate the perfect business plan?

      What is the point of saying you will match tech people with business people, then asking the tech people for the business plan? Is not that the job of the business people?

      The answer is that they are not looking for raw answers. They are not looking for scientific knowledge that can be developed into new industries. They are looking for all the work to be already done, by large companies with deep pockets. They are so used to "no results", that they see new ideas as nothing but a risk that could tarnish their reputation. The best way to keep their reputation intact is to do nothing, that way nothing can go wrong. They can always fall back on how many years of schooling they have.

      Alternatively they will entartain lame ideas that can never pan out, based on easily-discernible first principles, if the companies are willing to waste millions of dollars on feel-good paperwork and false promises.

      I just want to point out to these agencies:
      I have spent probably a year of time applying for grants, submitting concept papers, etc., for patented and patent-pending solutions I have developed in the clean energy field.
      By any account, I have invented many new types of wind turbine that could be said to solve many of the persistent problems that have plagued wind energy.

      Now there could be two courses to choose from:
      1. Develop everything myself and don't waste time talking about it.
      2. Believe that these agencies who solicit for proposals are truly interested in anything new.

      I mistakenly chose option 2 for the first several years, believing in the process of recognition of scientific principles by scientists, and peer review, that I learned in University: that an innovator would propose a concept, prove the concept, then scientists could independently verify the results, acknowledge the specific new principle, extrapolate the implications, and then recommend the next step, whereby all of society society benefits from employing these scientists.

      What I have found instead is an impenetrable bureaucracy at every level that sucks up all the money before it could ever be spent on anything useful, and a review process that is far more responsive to politically-correct appearances, formalities, and sheer volume of paperwork than to new ideas or actual solutions. The technical reviewers are without imagination or vision, and cannot see beyond the status quo.

      I see what was once millions of dollars, turn into billions and now trillions, supposedly earmarked for clean energy, with the clear solutions and tantalizing new paradigms I have spent so many years developing completely ignored by all official circles.

      After all the propaganda you hear about the relentless quest for clean energy, know that with all the patented solutions I have offered, I have never had the slightest bit of interest from any of these agencies. Every proposal, every phone call, every demonstration has fallen on its face. I even spent weeks to place a 4-rotor machine with full instrumentation in front on an NREL scientist, and as kind and forward-thinking as he was to actually show up, he in the end literally refused to look at the instruments, saying simply "I believe you" and it was plain to see he was not in the least interested in a 5-foot diameter turbine making 3000 watts at 40 mph.

      After all the hype and emotion you may feel after listening to a speeches full of platitudes and generalities with regard to advancing clean energy, realize that this individual inventor, for one, has had progress stopped in its tracks by the false promises of interest and curiosity of these agencies. They simply couldn't care less about any new ways of harnessing wind energy, let alone ocean energy. They do not seem to want to follow the simple math that says gearboxes can be eliminated, and blade material can be reduced by an order of magnitude.

      Instead what we have is a "head in the sand" refusal to even look at the potential of any of these new ideas.

      I just want to let the GOOD and ASTUTE people at these agencies, who are probably similarly frustrated, I am not wasting one more minute of my time proposing anything to you. The solutions are published. The place to find them is in the U.S. Patent system. Or just ask me. The ball is in your court. I am no longer accepting the passive nature of the grant proposal process, where these agencies with their millions take no proactive action to find solutions, but instead try to endlessly throw the ball into the innovator's court.

      My opinion is that these agencies have the responsibility to proactively categorize the possible solutions as published in the literature, and decide for themselves, based on first principles, what ideas are worth developing. They need to use their scientific training to analyze ideas on first principles, discern what could lead to solutions, and proactively identify and seek to engage the innovators.

      The system they have now, in my humble opinion, is nothing more than an endless excuse to do nothing.
      Look at how many millions of dollars have been spent, over how many years, especially recently, in the quest for clean energy.
      Now show me the result:
      How many new machines have you seen them produce in the last 30 years? How many new configurations have they explored? What have they done that was not going to be done anyway without them?

      How much of the grant process is really just window-dressing: companies knowing they are dragging NREL along, rather than being helped, but want to be able to tout the "official recognition"?

      Once I found out how easy wind turbines are to build, I was even more appalled. One could fabricate new types of turbines in one's sleep.

      Using an industrial belt sander, for example, one can turn out great blades of any diameter in a few minutes. What is their excuse? A set of blades that takes me an hour to fabricate would be a quarter-million dollar project for NREL, and take 2 years rather than an hour.

      All I can say is this:
      Fool me once, shame on you...
      fool me twice, and umm...er...
      or gosh darn it, well George Bush almost had it right.
      See? That is the federal government for you: Go as high as you want and they can't even string a few words together correctly, much less develop any new technology.

      Their reasons turn into their excuses: The National Redundant Excuse Laboratories: They invite a technology person to their "Industry Growth Forum", ostensibly to mate them with financial and business people, then refuse to follow through, with the excuse that the technology person did not have a good enough business plan.

      There seems to be no provision for someone simply coming up with the technology. The idea that some people might specialize in the technology and thereby not have to time, skills, nor resources to also have the perfect business plan does not seem to occur to them.

      It is one more example of what I have noticed since getting into this field: Whatever people say they will do, they will eventually ask you to do instead. Even at the highest levels. And even then they can't participate, even if I DO offer to do ALL the work.

      If they say they are looking for technology and matching up business people with tech people, they can be counted on to instead ask the technology person for the business plan. Then the business people want to turn into inventors, and you can spend all your time to bring them up to speed on the ABC's of wind energy "No we do not want to pursue another duct, shroud, or drag-based design".

      Look at ARPA-E: They asked for "concept papers" rather than full "proposals", to "save the time" of innovators. Then in response, they send out 3500 form letters saying they were overwhelmed by 3500 "concept papers", and can scarcely even respond to them all. They say it is "a learning experience" for them... How warm and fuzzy. Reminds me of the NREL booth at the AWEA shows: The lights are on (powered by fossil fuels) but nobody is home. And they say that their response to the concept papers is not binding. You can still submit a full proposal. So why the concept paper? Not a waste of time? In this effort to NOT waste innovators' time, they waste 3500 innovators' time. For their own "learning experience"...

      Let's see, if it cost innovators $10,000 per concept paper, that is $35,000,000 of innovators' funds wasted. Hey wait a minute, that is the same amount total they were going to award! So before they have awarded one cent, they have already wasted more of our time/money than they plan on awarding. Here's what I am asking: Stay tuned and monitor the results of ARPA-E. Let me know when you see ANY viable technology emerge from all those millions - er billions...

      Anyway, this year I have learned my lesson. I would not waste one drop of ink or one second's time applying to present at an NREL event anymore. I want to say: The ball is in YOUR court and I suggest you live up to your hype. I am glad to help. I am here for you. But you have to be proactive and participate. You will have to contact me - I am not trying anymore from my end, I'm going to do it without you, because it is not money that is needed, so much as a little attention to detail and a little inspiration, which all the policies and procedures do nothing but sap.

      I do think there are people in these agencies who feel the same way I do and want to change things so we really DO move forward into a clean energy future. I welcome your participation.
      That's all I want to say and thanks for your attention, and for taking the time to read this.
      Sincerely,
      Doug Selsam
      Selsam Innovations / Superturbine Inc. / USWINDLABS
      2600 Porter Ave. Unit B
      Fullerton, CA 92833
      714-992-5594
      http://www.SELSAM.com
      Doug@Selsam.com
      http://www.USWINDLABS.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 368 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/9/2009
      Subject: Re: Open Letter to NREL and ARPA-E
      Thanks for sharing that, Doug.  It is a thorough investigation of a situation I only had strong suspicions of.  Every seedling must struggle against the vested interests of the existing plants, and a strong competitor is best attacked early.  A brilliant design is easily lost in a sea where most people are just barely intelligent enough to stumble onto a bandwagon.  Perhaps the best way to establish a new paradigm is by co-operating with many amateurs rather than a few professionals, until a new industry springs from the garages to the sheds of industrial parklands.  
        
      http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html

      Bob Stuart


      On 9-Oct-09, at 2:24 PM, dougselsam wrote:
      <snip
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 369 From: Geoffrey G Date: 10/9/2009
      Subject: AWE Wind Balloon
      I've posted a study on this proposed AWE concept in the AWE Group Files Folder.

      No funding so far, BUT I'm planning to build a small one next month!

      Anyone out there want to help?
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 370 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/9/2009
      Subject: Re: AWE Wind Balloon
      Congrats on such a comprehensive professional proposal!   What a rich read!
      Document in our group files is
      Wind Helix 3.pdf
      Click "Files" on left of screen.
       
      Others are encouraged to place files in Files in group or send
      files for web hosting in company or special folders at
      EnergyKiteSystems.net
       
      I put "genset" in glossary.  Thanks.
       
      AND
       
      Lift cheers,
      JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 371 From: dave santos Date: 10/9/2009
      Subject: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos
      2009 was KiteLab's third year demoing AWE at WSIKF (Washington State International Kite Festival).
       
      Highlights-
       
      A tethered HotWing foil wowed the festival crowd on Thursday. Its truly the tip of a HAWT without all the excess structure. These wings are much hotter than the stock sport kites KiteLab uses for COTS AWE to drive a generator by a string A-frame or tri-tether. Kids loved it. Some kite pros thought it was uncanny, scary even, but on close inspection found it safe (low mass & soft).
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/wsikfwing.mpg
       
      KiteLab's utility arch flew halyard experiments on Monday, arch & train day. Jason Jolivet assisted & proved an apt student. A finding is that kite arch/lattice halyards/haul line loops need to have both lines well separated by a spread fair-lead or twist-up is probable.
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/lifterline.jpg
       
      The above jpg was not exactly the configuration flown at WSIKF, its missing the the big HQ XXL sled. The scrap kite in the fore-sky, made from old tents, caused merriment. Its a serious example of a powerful utility pilot/lifter made from salvage material. Detail-
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/scrapkite.jpg
       
      KiteLab's little "reference" flygen flew nicely all afternoon on Saturday.
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/WSIKF2009Augustflygen.jpg  
       
      On Tuesday Iqbal Hussein, an invited kite star, helped set up & fly a small membrane wing mill generating electricity using John Borsheim's spragged flywheel generator. Detail-
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/SpragGen.jpg
       
      David Gomberg, a top kite showman & manufacture, checked out KiteLab AWE tech for the second fest this year (Austin Kite Fest last March). He was amused by this macho KiteLab hyperwinder.
       
      energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/multiwinder.jpg
       
      Scott Slater was at WSKIF this year & confirms his 2400 sq ft Osborne pararfoil is available for AWE research. Here is a strange trick. He flies the kite low (~60 ft), which means its unstable, as the giant kite's loop frequency closely matches the tether frequency. Sooner or later, usually after an hour or two, it hooks into the ground & he bags it. This is how he manages to bring it down single-handed without fail!
       
      A Tal Streeter UFO was being flown at WSIKF on four lines & is surely the "sideways flying" wonder Drachen's Dave Lang & Joe Hadzicki wished for. Its a round hoop with fabric stretched across it & a hole in the middle. It originally sold as a sort of flying disc yo-yo.
       
      ===============================
       
      Tomorrow is the One Sky One World kite peace fest here on The Peninsula. KiteLab will perform dual varidrogue & minimalist surf-zone energy experiments.
       
       
       

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 372 From: dave santos Date: 10/10/2009
      Subject: Sedgwick UFO Kite (correction & link)
      The UFO Kite was created by Lee Sedgwick, not Tal Streeter. On four lines this is one rad kite, fast & indifferent to which direction it is directed-
       
      windstarkites.com/UFO.htm

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 373 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/10/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 375 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/10/2009
      Subject: Re: WSIKF AWE Report Part 2- KiteLab Demos
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 376 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/12/2009
      Subject: OrthoKiteBunch

      Here is the new website of  OrthoKiteBunch .

      A realisation of a prototype for a mockup of OrthoKite with one kite is studied.

       

      Pierre Benhaïem

      OrthoKiteBunch 

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 377 From: dave santos Date: 10/12/2009
      Subject: Re: Altitude Definitions- HAWP, MAWP, & LAWP
      The "High altitude" label is not being abused by the scholars, who take pains to to differentiate between high. medium, & low altitudes. The risk is from AWE marketers willing to blur important technical distinctions as hype.
       
      The HAWP Conference is so named as it originated from worthy players who study or base business plans on high-altitude. So it is that high-altitude is finely woven into the agenda, but here is no mention of low-altitude solutions. Its hoped that low-altitude gets a bit of explicit consideration. By contrast Drachen Foundation's 2010 Kite Power Symposium originates from a mostly low-altitude centered culture. The use/non-use of the word "kite" is another linguistic indicator of an AWE cultural gap.
       
      Since 07, KiteLab's brain circle, which includes many career aviation/aerospace experts, has closely studied HAWP challenges. It was easily concluded that low-altitude AWE (LAWP) is the essential "bunny slope" to master for HAWP to become real at a later time. Since then low-tech low-altitude AWE has proved fairly simple & practical. Such modest LAWP is already legally airworthy, if kept light & low, as specified by FAA regs.
       
      Many AWE players need to stay low & light until they acculturate to safety-critical aviation, or someone will get hurt!
       
      And now, just for fun, KiteLab discloses yet another scandalous AWE reality-
       
       
      Tropopausal Stagnation Zones
       
      Here's the true science- High Altitude Wind Power is a technical myth. Earth's rotational/flywheel energy is what counts & most "wind" is relatively stagnant air dragging along at a slower speed. Wind actually flows backwards relative to the ground . The jet streams are worst of all & are more aptly named "Tropopausal Stagnation Zones" .
       
      The secret to AWE is to tether the rapidly moving earth surface to rags dipped into the most stagnant air.
       
      ;^)