Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 25989 to 26038 Page 411 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25989 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25990 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: AWE buzz:

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25991 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25992 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25993 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25994 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25995 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25996 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25997 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25998 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25999 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26000 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26001 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News - let us know when it has happened

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26002 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News - let us know when it has happened

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26003 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26004 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26005 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/12/2019
Subject: Sequential launch schemes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26006 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26007 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26008 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26009 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26010 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26011 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26012 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26013 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26014 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26015 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26016 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26017 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26018 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26019 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26020 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26021 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26022 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26023 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26024 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26025 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26026 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26027 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26028 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26029 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26030 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26031 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26032 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26033 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26034 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26035 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Envisioning Practical Uses of Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26036 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: Envisioning Practical Uses of Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26037 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/15/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26038 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/15/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25989 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale

"A laddermill kite system had been built and flown by Dave Santos of kPower, Inc."

T or F ?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25990 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: AWE buzz:
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25991 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25992 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Two laddermills have been made and tested by me. TRUE. As expected, it's not a very promising architecture, but were fun and interesting to fly. The fully soft version was best.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25993 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Just curious whether you have any documentation, photos, videos, description, data?  What sort of setups did you run?  Can you describe each?  How many wings?  What size?  What span?  One loop-line or two? How long?  What sort of wheel at the ground?  What kind of elevated wheel, if any?  What sort if lifter used, if any?  What was the windspeed?  How long did they run?  How fast did they go?  How much power did they make?  Why no photos or videos considering the effort that must have gone into building them?
I think we can see where this is going...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25994 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News
More "future-news"...


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25995 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
It seems that you and Joe have entirely missed my point.
My point was NOT anything to do with the word "Kiteplane" per se.
I simply used it as an example to show you can search for a word used recently, and you will get only old returns.
This is in response to the ongoing requests from daveS to cite a previous post when quoting someone, such as him.  I've been maintaining that, while I would LOVE to include specific quotes, the search function on Yahoo Groups really doesn't work, for me at least.  Could it be an ad-blocker or something?  Returning the first use of the term (JoeF) or supplying a definition (daveS) are not responsive to my post.  And daveS' response, below, that "Search is biased toward recent results." is what I WISH it was.  Tht is my entire point, daveS, it returns ZERO recent results.

These responses 100% miss the point of my post.  My point was you can search for a term used today, yesterday, or in any recent post and only get old returns from years ago.

So unless you can tell me what I'm doing wrong when attempting to use the search feature, please stop asking for exact quotes from me when I'm standing up for facts in face of the onslaught of your combined nonsense.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Try the following experiment:
1) Pick a recent post, such as, say the post preceding this one
2) Cut-paste any word from the recent post into the "search conversations / search groups" search bar.
3) Check to see what year your first return is from.

 Example: Take the most recent posts from daveS, featuring the word "kiteplanes"
input "kiteplanes" (no quotes) into the search bar
First return is from last year.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25996 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Doug, I make many small experiments, fly them, and move on to the next.

If your practice is testing just like you recommend, go ahead.

There are photos here and there, mostly in the WayBack Net. Again, hire me to mine them for you, or buy the prototypes. You must not have paid attention when these protypes we're presented around ten and five years ago.

Why don't you make a LadderMill and test it as you demand?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25997 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News
News is the narrow gap between history and what comes next  Minesto has a serious history and future outcome. Let Doug imagine there is never news in between.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25998 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Doug, you still should provide evidence to accuse fairly. Try saving the offending emails in your mailer and search them there. Yahoo Groups search is not your only option to quote accuately. Your searches will succeed with better keywords anywhere.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25999 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Dear daveS:
Your replies lately all have the same theme: you pretend people will be willing to send you money for details of your unlikely claims.  I look at it as more evidence you just make stuff up.  Go ahead and provide links to your photos, if you can.  It's YOUR dubious statement, YOUR assertion, for YOU to prove, if you can.  Please don't ask others to prove your assertions.  Nobody is going to pay you.  That is a joke - just one more of your dodges, your excuses, flavored with more self-glorification by you.  So here you are again, maintaining you have laddermills for sale.  But you can't show us a picture.  Can't provide a single detail.

Here's one factor I find weighs against you ever having "flown" a "laddermill":
1) Over the years, one of my ongoing themes, often stated on this forum, has been my protestations that nobody has ever even tried to build a laddermill.  That contrarily, even the Deflts / Ockels crowd merely bought and flew kites hoping to "reel" enough economical power to have an economical energy solution.  In all those years, you never "corrected" me by showing us your supposed working laddermill prototypes.  Knowing how eager you are to counter any posts I may contribute, it seems highly-unlikely you would have had such evidence and not mentioned it here.

2) As I subtly predicted in my previous post on this topic today, you are not answering any of the questions I posed to you earlier today regarding specific details of your prototypes, how that were supported: power, RPM, speed, size, number of elements, one loop or two, on and on and on with ZERO details, yet we are supposed to once again believe "the boy who cried wolf" when you just put up a wall of denial?

3) It almost goes without saying, any prototypes you have would probably not be spinning a generator or you would have produced such prototypes in response to my previous protestations that you do not in fact conduct AWE research at all, but instead function exclusively as a "poseur", now actively fighting even the idea of "power meters", as though "measurement" is suddenly the enemy.  Not even a daveS "blink-and-you-missed-it 4-second video.
So as usual, the world awaits daveS providing any evidence of his bizarre statements on the "Yahoo AWE forum"

Why don't I build a laddermill?  Like what, today?  Well, as with most potential AWE configurations, almost none of which anyone has bothered to try, it looks like that's the only way the world will ever see one - if I do it.  It's OK I'm used to it.

One thing we know:  We'll never see one from you.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26000 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
daveS you seem to have what I'm going to say here seems like a disease of the internet:
People thinking internet postings define reality, with actual reality being subservient to fantasies expressed in web postings, and that it is worthy of peoples' time to spend all day mired in incessant demands for being "on-topic", using the approved words, being told to "accuse fairly" when merely responding to a post without dredging up exact quotes from a nonworking search system, "netiquette" ( word I had not seen since the 1990's) now it's "supplying the best "keywords"" - the same not-picky crapola you have been recently protesting on "the other" forum. 

Do you know, you guys are all nuts?

Now you have insisted over and over (like with your Altaeros "it's a delay!" line - turned out to be wrong) that the cause of Corwin's death was "Karoshi" - a dubiously-diagnosed "disease" from Japan, popularized in what, the 1980's?  A "fad" diagnosis that "everyone had" for a few years, like "being co-dependent" that ran its course and was quickly forgotten for the next psycho-fad "disease"?

Once we got even highly-biased JoeF to mention to you that providing such an unrequested medical diagnosis with no medical credentials and no evidence was beyond the limits of reasonableness.  It may have been the only time you were ever moderated on this forum.

Well I have a possible diagnosis for what I see as your bizarre behavior on this forum:
The diagnosis might be toxoplasmosis.
Look it up.  See if you find yourself reflecting on how familiar the symptoms may seem.

Now, unlike you, I would not feign omniscience to state categorically that you suffer from this malady - that would be illogical, since I don't know, and exactly such illogical behavior from you is a main reason I draw your attention to this possibility.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26001 From: dougselsam Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News - let us know when it has happened
I've just noticed there are certain topics where "news" is only in the future, and which almost never comes true.  Tide and wave power are two, and of course kite energy is another. Minesto combines both, so...  It would not surprise me that you have NOT noticed this, since you favor a world of fantasy over reality. 

I didn't start out that way.  But as I've mentioned on this forum, back in the early 1970's, all cars were predicted to be "hybrids" by the 1980's with a small, efficient turbine engine spinning a generator, not mechanically connected to the drivetrain.  And Moller's "flying car" was always 1-2 years away from commercialization.  Last I knew, almost 50 years later, there are still articles showing the same corvette-looking Moller flying car prototype, citing commercialization in a year or two.  I think that was like 4 or 5 years ago.  And in the last couple of decades I was impressed with the space-elevator group for awhile, until I realized THAT would not be happening anytime soon, either. 

So it was long ago that I started to identify the fact that in certain categories, the "news" is basically NEVER true, and certain sources are ALWAYS "the boy who cried wolf".  If I wanted to confer "honor" or "glory" - two of your favorite words you use when describing you or the people you think you can associate with, I would confer "honor" upon you for being the boy-who-cried-wolf poster-child, faithfully servng as ambassador for "the professor crackpot syndrome" in airborne wind energy.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26002 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Minesto News - let us know when it has happened
Minesto has a past- SAAB Aerospace, whose news has long been diligently followed.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26003 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Sorry Doug, there has been a lot more activity than you seem to know about. Two actual laddermills exist in storage, and there were reports and photos.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26004 From: Santos Date: 6/11/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Same timeframe since 2011-

We go big around 2030, Doug.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26005 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/12/2019
Subject: Sequential launch schemes
Set lifter system to altitude: only then hoist spinner set to altitude to drive ground generator.  Perhaps have a small wind turbine above that drives the hoisting of the spinner set. Swap spinner sets to take advantage of wind changes. 

That is, use lesser lower winds to simply get lifter set to altitude. Avoid burdening the lifter set with spinner set during the lower part of wind gradients. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26006 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
But you can't provide any descriptive details, photos, videos, data, or links to your supposed "reports and photos".  Sounds like more BS from daveS.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26007 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
daveS said: "We go big around 2030, Doug."

***DougS replies: Meaningless excuse combined with more bragging - you have already gone as big as you ever will, in my opinion.  After 12 years, no power still - why would we expect that to change? 

Since it is all talk, how "big" you have "gone" was only limited by the size of your big mouth (in a digital sense).

The fake-future-news date you give (2030) is nothing but a weak crutch to continue pretending you are developing any sort of AWE while actually having demonstrated nothing generating any electrical power.  At this point who could take anything you say seriously?  What about your imaginary "AWE-powered concert" of so many years ago?  Doesn't that pretty much say it all?  Now you want to pre-schedule another decade+ of "The Emperor's New Clothes" combined with daily doses "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?  Who would still listen?  It's become a comedy.  Great entertainment, daveS!


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26008 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Doug, I already shared these prototypes in photos and reports. The hardware is available too. Go for it belatedly if you missed it.

Both experiments used kitestore ladder units, very fast to rig in loops. Rotating drums completed the WECS.

Go ahead and again insist wrongly there is nothing, like the generator in the video you can't see. All this hardware is museum worthy, exactly as described.

Thank you for asking for review. Old photos and reports will show up in search.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26009 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
2030 is meaningfull to those who see the critical path in utility-scale AWE converging in that timeframe, like WoW, kPower, an institutional maritime engineering source recently cited. It's simply how industrial  TRL progresses over time.

"Meaningless" to those who don't, like Doug. 2030 will prove if the predicted large-scale AWE maturation occurs.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26010 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
daveS: I am going to apply the same standard you apply to discussions of previous posts by you: Please provide a link to the post(s) you refer to.  Exact quotes, with links to the source posting(s), as you demand from others.  Your "news" seems to be relegated to either the distant future or the distant past, with no ability to show any proof or even evidence in either direction. 
Your ever-shifting positions seems to have a new angle for dodging reality:  Now, all your "evidence" is "in storage" with you suddenly unable to use a camera to show us a pic, or to meet your own standard of providing a link to previous posts you claim exist.  You claim the search function of the Yahoo groups works well, so please show us your three (3) stated items in your supposed previous posts.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26011 From: dougselsam Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
daveS said: "2030 will prove if the predicted large-scale AWE maturation occurs."
DougS replies:  Prove what?  Did you leave something out of that sentence?
Your above statement indicates the year you cite as indeed meaningless.
Suddenly you inject the phrase "if the predicted...occurs", casting doubt on the entire scenario.
What, you're suddenly concerned with your own credibility eleven years into the future? 
How about your credibility today?
So if "the predicted...maturation" doesn't occur, then what? 
A new story of fake future news? 
Will you ever stop pretending?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26012 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: Santos statement of having laddermills for sale
Doug, good luck with your search struggles. Don't give up learning about AWE progress you somehow missed.

Everyone wants you to progress too. Keep your reports coming, and they will be found by future scholars of AWE history.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26013 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Prove what? 2030 will come around and prove if it was the right industrial timeframe.

Go ahead and make a better prediction.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26014 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
2030 will be the AWE year with a Böse-Einstein version of SuperTurbine (tm) mixed with a laddermill. The sequential flapping will lead to quantum oscillations, increasing the swept area, and by the way resolving the scaling issue.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26015 From: Santos Date: 6/13/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Pierre, Ok, you seem unwilling to make a logical case for 2030.

Make a better prediction, based on your best understanding.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26016 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Listen to you.  "Make a better prediction", than you???  Is that supposed to be a joke???  Shooting fish in a barrel?  "industraal timeframe" - sure daveS, try to inject some "big words".  "Industrial".  "Timeframe".  Wow, impressive.  Now time is industrial, so you are in charge of the whole world.

My consistent "better prediction" has been that no current AWE wannabes know what they're doing, and that none of the currently-publicized approaches will result in a more economical wind energy system.  That began 12 years ago after the first "conference" when nobody showed up with anything that worked but me.  It's never changed.  The short version was "idiots, idiots, idiots...". 

Now you want to place your now-proven-meaningless opinion of what will happen 12 MORE years into the future?  There seems to be no limit to your helpless unreasonableness.  You use "the future" as an excuse to tell endless lies at worst, and to make just meaningless predictions, at best.  The one place you THINK, in your short-term thinking, you cannot be pinned down - the future.  Short-term thinking, because eventually your "future" becomes "now", and then it becomes obvious nothing you say comes true, over and over.   

Take your concert that never happened.   A supposed concert to demonstrate that an AWE system can produce enough power to enable a concert.  You even claimed to have a band lined up.  But your own prediction of your own actions, depending on nothing but your own assessment of your own abilities and equipment, not dependent on anyone else, was based on absolutely nothing and was 100% false.  It was 100% meaningless blather.  One example out of too many to list.

You make sweeping predictions on an almost daily basis for 12 years.  Pretty much nothing you've said in that 12 years has come true.  On the other hand, I've predicted exactly what happened the whole time: no economical energy solution.  And in fact we still have no system in regular operation to this day.  Unlike all the press-releases. 

Your predictions have had no traction whatsoever, even with regard to your own activities..  You give predictions but provide no underlying reasoning.  Why would anyone accept a prediction from you at this point?  How can you even make any more predictions at this point?  Is there no point at which you are embarrassed?  What is your question exactly?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26017 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Doug, 

AWEfest is a movement, not just past news. All celebrations so far in the name and spirit of AWE have been grand, if not to your liking.

Form a new topic if want to carefully explore the history and future of AWEfest.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26018 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
daveS the topic here has become your "predictions".
Your ongoing excuse for not being able to discern your own lack of being able to assess whether you even HAVE an AWE system to power anything at all, is just the tip of the iceberg of your general avoidance of reality in general.

It is unreasonable to have to say this again, but your mis-stated "AWE-powered concert" was announced, by you as "near-future" fake news about a concert to have taken place in a certain park you chose, near your location in Austin, Texas, in a certain season, during a certain year, now several years in the past, PERIOD.

Your typical knee-jerk retreat has been to try to dodge your own statements (predictions) by ignoring them and trying to "change the subject" by the typical strategy employed by you and JoeF to rationalize your dishonest statements by attempted changing of word definitions.

Today's word of abuse is "AWEfest".  You think you can pull this word out of your backside and abuse it to the point of somehow magically NOT having announced that concert-that-never-happened", as though you could erase your previous wrong predictions by abuse of a single term.

One of your many glaring problems is you CANNOT EVEN ADMIT when you are wrong.  There is NO POINT engaging in even a conversation with you.  What does someone "win" if they successfully counter your mis-statements?  NOTHING!  Because no matter HOW RIDICULOUS your lies, no matter HOW BLATANT your empty bragging in denial of reality, you can seldom if ever even ACKNOWLEDGE when you are wrong. 

You want to "change the subject".  You want to abuse words and language in general.  You want the world to ignore you previous bad predictions and substitute your new bad predictions, only to be ignored, denied, or replaced again, in the future.  You are never accountable for your own words.  You have not admitted in all these years that you announced that concert with no way to make it happen, and it in fact did not happen.  PERIOD.  It has NOTHING to do with any future concert that may or may not ever happen.

Your predictions have failed every time.  There is nothing to be gained "arguing" about your opinion of something over a decade into the future.  You refuse to back up your wrong statements when questioned.  It's like you can't comprehend the idea of integrity.  You have a long track record of dishonesty in this forum and, from my experience, cannot be expected to approach any subject with honesty, and if wrong can be counted on only to come up with more distractions and diversions rather than admitting you were wrong about anything, so there is literally no point in further communication with you, from my viewpoint. 

You have completely destroyed your own credibility by now, and I have to take the position that further communication with you is pointless.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26019 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Doug, I have consistently predicted broad statistical progress on an aerospace-industrial timeframe of a few decades, with 2030 as a critical proving phase. We are now at a crucial mid-point. It's very exciting.

Your famous prediction is, "All Roads Lead to the ST".

We are seeing everyone's predictions tested. You have not won any victory over the Power Kite. Get the ST ready for the great AWE dogfight of all architectures.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26020 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Your new prediction of 2030 is just one more excuse for you to play "expert", with nothing working, for another decade-plus of nothing working.
The way gentlemen resolve predictive disputes is to place a bet.
Imagine someone winning a gentlemen's bet with you.
They would never get paid.
You can never admit when you're wrong.
No integrity - no believe-ability.  Conversations with you are meaningless.
Empty blather.  A bet with you would be similarly meaningless - no possibility of being paid, no matter what.   No point in any of it.



---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26021 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
The 2030 AWE industrialization timeframe was first predicted by me and CarloP for WoW, in 2011, using critical path analysis of peak power claims. The trend identified is holding well.

Let anyone else try and make a better prediction; they won't make an older one.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26022 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
So I guess while you on the one hand pretended to be some version of the top researcher in AWE, you were simultaneously predicting no success from yourself?  What exactly are you predicting for the year 2030?  Anything specific at all?  Or is it just that you are predicting the year 2030 will arrive someday, and that you'll still be pretending to be involved with AWE, still feigning "top researcher", still with nothing to show for it?
Oh wait, I made the mistake of asking you for an ctual answer.

A better prediction?  Are you paying attention at all?  For AWE, the future has arrived.  It's been well over a decade.  I was saying "time's up" after the first couple or three years.  This whole topic is a joke.  The only predictions that have come true have been from me. 
Magenn is a joke...
Makani is "The Emperor's Clothes".
None of the "teams" will have any economic solution...
Altaeros will not power a remote village in Alaska... or do anything else they say.  They are the boy who cried wolf, like you. 
Remember you insistence:  "It's a delay..."  (Said in the voice of Tattoo: "Boss, the plane!")
You know what I think was a delay?  The development of your brain.
No wait, scratch delay - it was a cancellation.
Go through your archives, if you can, and you will see that you are not the one making accurate predictions.  You want to know whose predictions are accurate?  After 12 years of fielding your nonsense, anyone can now check to see who has been right all along.  At this point, "the future" can no longer serve as your refuge.  The future has arrived, and you have not.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26023 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Doug, 

You have clearly missed a lot of old Forum discussion. Let the archives forever show what was predicted when for utility scale AWE at TRL9.

Anyone who guessed a shorter timeframe is probably not enjoying the stately, if grand, pace of progress.

Those making grand progress are happy with the journey. Wishing you that happiness too. Work and study hard.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26024 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
You have yet, as usual, to answer any question posed.
What exactly is your supposed prediction for year 2030 now?
What do we win when you're wrong again?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26025 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
My prediction remains the same as in 2011.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26026 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
That is the problem.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26027 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
No, Pierre, it's good that the 2011 prediction holds. 

What is your prediction?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26028 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

The prediction doesn't change when there is no progress.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26029 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Since 2011, there is expected progress in the key metric of peak power claimed. Those who see no progress seem to reason from their own experience rather than any broader data metric.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26030 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

My prediction for next years is the development of low carbon energies recommended by the GIEC such as nuclear. Wind energy suffers from the needed mix with fossil plants in order to compensate their intermittency.

AWES has a tiny possibility if they are reliable enough and have a high capacity factor, and a high enough power/space ratio.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26031 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Correction: "AWES have..."
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26032 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Let kites compete with nukes then. Win or lose, kites are much more fun to develop.

Another metric of progress is 10x more people in AWE in recent years. Yes, nukes have many more people, but we have the cooler sexier tech.

Kites could therefore disrupt nuke promotion.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26033 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

No, kites don't compete with nuclear plants which are both low-carbon and not intermittent and powerful plants.

Kites are used for sports, not for electric energy production.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26034 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
As if kite sports is something nuclear power can beat. It was not long ago that nukes made less power than early AWE already does.

Better science too; kites are now a favored power basis in modern polar exploration. Kites may even teach some folks to tell BES from BEC, not just joke ignorantly.

Anyone who thinks nukes are better than AWE is on the wrong Forum. I would not waste a minute on a crappy nuke Forum. Dull nuke fatalists hardly are kite gods.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26035 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Envisioning Practical Uses of Kite Systems

===== Envisioning Practical Uses of Kite Systems =====

============================================

Open development topic threads for selected practical uses.

Herein:  envision distinct practical uses of kite systems. 

============================================

Our forum has already mentioned many practical uses of kite systems. This topic thread could gather those visioned uses already mentioned in forum and those uses not yet mentioned. 

============================================


Start: 

  • Generate electricity for use by humans to drive selected machines.  
  • Lift objects with the target action of dropping the objects in order to break those objects when the objects impact terra firma.
  • Lift wreaking ball in order to then swing the ball to wreak structures. 
  • Pull humans over land for purposes (great plenty of purposes). 
  • Pull water-based hulls of any size from tiny to huge ships and railed trains. 
  • Pull plows. 
  • Transport living beings from one place to another. 
  • Transport inanimate objects from one place to another. 
  • Loft sound-radiating machines. 
  • Make wind-based sounds for meditation. 
  • Lift readable advertisements. 
  • Give pull for machines that would achieve special practical works. 
  • Lift twisted lines to let untwist occur. 
  • Lift platforms from which hang gliders may launch. 
  • Lift hang gliders for dropping them for glides. 
  • Lift sky divers for dropping them for sky dives. 
  • Lift observation platforms.
  • Lift radio frequency antennae. 
  • Lift broad shading sheets. 
  • Lift series of tension "posts" between which are tension fences used for various practical purposes. 
  • Lift entertaining line laundry.
  • Kite fighting recreation. 
  • Lift and drop earth-penetrating plant or tree seedlings or early sprouts in order to populate regions with desired growths. 
  • Lift and operate objects that achieve harvesting fish from bodies of objects.
  • Lift and drop party objects for children and adults. 
  • Lift and drop water or other chemical for firefighting. 
  • Lift lighting for various purposes.
  • Pull cutting line or saw blade to saw logs, stone, or other objects.

Have fun adding visions of practical uses of kite system in this topic thread. Thanks for staying on topic as introduced.   
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26036 From: Santos Date: 6/14/2019
Subject: Re: Envisioning Practical Uses of Kite Systems
Great reminder JoeF, none of the kite's endless practical uses are matched by nuclear power, except electricity, but the radioactive waste problem and evolving public taste still favors kite power.

Kites promise to fill gaps in power needs nothing else can. The developing world hardly seems ready to give up kite possibilities for a nuke-only future.

Wubbo's principle holds, that we can choose an energy that makes us happy, and the inverse, not choose an energy that makes us less happy.

Those who don't like kites will leave them alone and do as they please.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26037 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/15/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking

Those with basic knowledge of energy avoid confusion between nuclear energy and nukes.


https://report.ipcc.ch/sr15/pdf/sr15_spm_final.pdf page 16: energy table including nuclear energy. In all scenarios GIEC advices a significant increasing of nuclear in order to limit CO² emissions, that beside increasing non-biomass renewables.


Non-biomass renewables comprise wind energy. And now wind energy is the affair of wind turbines.


I don't expect with your kites and your AWE "scientific principles" you will reduce CO² emissions but some AWE companies can have this goal.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 26038 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/15/2019
Subject: Re: yahoo groups search lacking
Dave, and you will be happy that GIEC makes models for both 2030, meeting what you call as your "predictions", and 2050.