Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 25029 to 25078 Page 392 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25029 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Disambiguating Kite Networks (KN) and Multiple-kite airborne wind en

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25030 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Discussion of "Induction" in AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25031 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Makani's Norway Strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25032 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Not claiming to be "the top researcher in AWE"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25033 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25034 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25035 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altitu

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25036 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Crosswind AWES drive loops between HAWT or urban towers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25037 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Not claiming to be "the top researcher in AWE"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25038 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25039 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25040 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: AWESCO Parafoil Loadpath Research

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25041 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25042 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altit

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25043 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25044 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altit

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25045 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25046 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25047 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25048 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Gene

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25049 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Kite Window Power Zone Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25050 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: How AI will soon solve AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25051 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Kite Flying and METAR parsing with Alexa

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25052 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25053 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25054 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25055 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25056 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Tapping the ITCZ with "Molecular Demons"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25057 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25058 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: KiteMatter (Kite Network) Crystal Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25059 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25060 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25061 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: China to launch major AWE R&D

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25062 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25063 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25064 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25065 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25066 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25067 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25068 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25069 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25070 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Rotokite on New Forum

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25071 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Wubbo Ockels Documentary Project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25072 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Enerkite lands €2.3 million; suspense lingers over its Oct 2018 la

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25073 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Applied Tracking Control for Kite Power Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25074 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Karin Lindholm

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25075 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Note. Circa 2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25076 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Heilmann Jannis

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25077 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25078 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Feasibility Study of Pumping Cycle Kite Power System Implication in




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25029 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Disambiguating Kite Networks (KN) and Multiple-kite airborne wind en
Lets broadly define Kite Networks as any collection of kites in flight interconnected by a kite field surface, by interconnection lines, and/or by coherent "flocking" control.

Lets define Multiple-kite airborne wind energy systems (MAWES) as a specific network architecture subset, as defined in papers that use the term for single-anchor single-line AWES, with multiple kites at the top of the configuration.

Two papers that define "MAWES" as proposed-








Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25030 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Discussion of "Induction" in AWE
Papers cited in the previous MAWES post explore an AWES dynamic they call "induction", not before discussed here as such. The precise linguistic applicability of "induction" is uncertain, if direct analogy with electrical induction is intended, rather than just local kite flow-field interactions the papers invoke. Nor is mathematical induction quite apt here.

What should "induction" best mean in AWE engineering physics, as a close analog to electrical engineering? We do have a simple sense of "conductance" in kitelines. Inductance in AWE may best be about rotation and mass effects on power conductance in kitelines, if not the exact meaning of the original framer of the subject (Vander Linde, lead Makani scientist).

This nice paper by Leuthold et al, 2017 lays out the history of induction analysis in AWE, extending to MAWES, still a rather open topic-




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25031 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Makani's Norway Strategy
Struggling under a severely premature technology, Makani has gained more time by tying into Shell's offshore technosphere, with specific advantages such as M600 prototype hosting from manned offshore platforms, early access to emerging spar-buoys, and hot venture buzz. Had Makani suffered a catastrophic crash in Hawaii, it might have been game over, but in its offshore niche, the venture seems set to run the clock a few more years, to still face its greatest test against emerging soft-kite contenders for the same perches.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25032 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Not claiming to be "the top researcher in AWE"
Joe:  I'm not the first or only person to protest daveS' outlandish statements.  People who make exaggerated claims place themselves in a position where others such as me are likely to counter those exaggerated statements.  When someone says "I am the greatest", it invites countervailing viewpoints which could be mistaken for personal attacks, but which are really just natural responses, required to establish the facts of the matter.
I would love to include exact wording (quotes) in these matters - well I guess "this matter" since the same "matter" seems to always be under discussion, from some angle, by someone, which is "what the heck is this guy daveS talking about now, and what the heck has he ever done better than all the people he constantly harasses?"  I've tried to humor you and daveS' insistence on citing his exact wording, but have had very little luck using the search feature.  No matter, "everyone knows" it is just one more technicality for you two to use in your habitual denial of daveS acting as basically a troublemaker, whose statements are often inaccurate.  And of course your next move will be to say I cannot use the term "everyone knows".  (It's "a figure of speech" Joe) Yeah Joe, don't worry. we're onto your game.  And it is a game you two are playing, of pretending to be, in some way, a defining factor in a nascent art which neither of you practice in any significant way, in my opinion.
So I ask simple questions such as, after ten or twelve years of open source "AWE research", self-described as being of high quality and important, what results do you (daveS or even JoeF?) have to share?  How much power have you made?  What is your most promising configuration and why?  Where is it leading?
These are normal questions to ask any supposed energy researcher.
Remember, there are infinite ways to not do AWE, so off-target "research" could go on forever with zero results.  In a race from California to New York, you could do a lot of traveling, but if the direction does not include "East" you will never approach the destination.  Do you understand what I just said there?  Because it's pretty important.  It means if someone does not proceed in a valid direction, no amount of "research" will take one to the desired destination.  So you can insist you are traveling to New York, but if, after ten years, you're still on the west coast, people will legitimately ask the basic questions as to whether your chosen direction(s) are valid or effective at all.
Asking about results of claimed research is not a "personal attack".  It's sticking to the topic the other person started.
It seems to me the problem here is you wanting to somehow shield, or protect, your buddy, from ever having to answer the normal questions that would apply to any normal person making the claims he routinely makes.
The only reason I see for you to go down the "personal attack" avenue is so you can cook up some arcane reason to censor people trying to get to the truth.  And when is censorship used in this world?  Are people censored for saying things that are not true?  Is some whacky UFO-nut censored?  No.  Censorship is used almost exclusively to shut out the truth.  It's usually used to protect lies.  Massimo Ippolito just made the same observation I did: Who is Kpower to say anything about anyone else's project?  And others have shared their dismay over your buddy's insistent statements and attitude before, many many times.  OK I know, I did not quote Mr. Ippolito exactly.    So there's another technicality you can use to shut out the truth.  But there it is, one more forum participant protesting the statements of daveS - again.  As usual.  Starting this forum was a good idea on your part.  Trying to control what anyone can say on it is not.  All that will do is ruin what you have created.  If a person is causing a problem, citing it is not necessarily a personal attack.  It is just people noticing the problem.  That person could always, in theory, change their ways.  That assumes they are fully in control of their own behavior, or willing to address the complaints or observations of others about their behavior, or that they have any true interest in ever accomplishing what they say is their goal.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25033 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
OK JoeF said
"So far, in my viewing of published knowledge, on the screen of variety of AWES, DaveS seems to be number one explorer. " (exact quote, just a few messages before this one I am replying to here.)

DaveS, in the message I am replying to, below, said:
My picks of current "top" folks- For all-out documentary research and knowledge-sharing across all AWE, plus a life in flight, Joe Faust is at the top of the list.

I think the above two statements, both appearing in today's forum, neatly encapsulate the true nature of this supposed open forum, and the real reason for its existence.  It is a JoeF/daveS mutual-admiration society, where these two actors pose as pivotal AWE researchers, practitioners, whatever, through mutual "validation" of each other, bereft of any significant actual power produced, with the validity of their AWE activities found only in their mutual exchange of compliments and positive statements about their own, and each others' activities.  If I ask daveS who else agrees he is an "expert" he will come up with JoeF.  And similarly he describes JoeF as being "at the top of the list", except I have seen nothing in the way of results from either of them.  Is it daveS momentarily producing a claimed "one Watt" of electric power, years ago, or JoeF claiming to have taken a nap under a sheet of refuse he found on the side of the road, hung in his backyard, occasionally wiggling in the wind, as a "demo" of Joe's ongoing assertions that shade from such a "kite" "is AWE"?

Guys, I say, have fun with your fantasies, but don't expect everyone else to go along with them.  You can just as easily spend all day talking about your pet purple elephant with pink polka-dots, or your giant 6-foot-tall rabbit named "Harvey", but not everyone else is going to necessarily agree.  I'd say, together, you've set a new bar for meaningless wind energy crackpotism combined with unfounded insistence of your relevance to wind energy at all.  Don't like what I said?  Try coming up with an economical energy solution.  That's the game.  Not just talk.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25034 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy
I believe this is in "response" to the latest ARPA-E solicitation, which seems to have been written specifically for Makani.  I'd be real surprised f they don't get a large chunk of the money.  Doesn't matter - you can throw as much money as you want at bad ideas and never get there.  Not so great on land, but it will be the answer at sea?  "your tax dollars at work"...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25035 From: dougselsam Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altitu
Well CF could mean "Consolidated Freightways" - I see it on the side of trucks.
Oh wait - wind energy?  "Capacity Factor".
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25036 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Crosswind AWES drive loops between HAWT or urban towers
It may prove workable to augment or convert a HAWT farm on- or off-shore to AWE by replacing bladed turbine rotors with capstans of bullwheels to run rope-drive cable-loops crosswind between towers, driving the generators as Payne proposes in his major patent Fig.5. 

A prime advantage of tower-farm reuse is to keep kites and rope-drives above surface features like nature preserves and perhaps human populations. We have thought before of stringing crosswind loops between urban towers, contesting urban wind fatalism. This post specifically offers aging wind tower farms perhaps the best legacy AWES architecture.

Open-AWE_IP-Cloud
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25037 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Not claiming to be "the top researcher in AWE"
Lets hope Doug figures out how quote fairly by using search, cut, and paste.



 

Joe:  I'm not the first or only person to protest daveS' outlandish statements.  People who make exaggerated claims place themselves in a position where others such as me are likely to counter those exaggerated statements.  When someone says "I am the greatest", it invites countervailing viewpoints which could be mistaken for personal attacks, but which are really just natural responses, required to establish the facts of the matter.
I would love to include exact wording (quotes) in these matters - well I guess "this matter" since the same "matter" seems to always be under discussion, from some angle, by someone, which is "what the heck is this guy daveS talking about now, and what the heck has he ever done better than all the people he constantly harasses?"  I've tried to humor you and daveS' insistence on citing his exact wording, but have had very little luck using the search feature.  No matter, "everyone knows" it is just one more technicality for you two to use in your habitual denial of daveS acting as basically a troublemaker, whose statements are often inaccurate.  And of course your next move will be to say I cannot use the term "everyone knows".  (It's "a figure of speech" Joe) Yeah Joe, don't worry. we're onto your game.  And it is a game you two are playing, of pretending to be, in some way, a defining factor in a nascent art which neither of you practice in any significant way, in my opinion.
So I ask simple questions such as, after ten or twelve years of open source "AWE research", self-described as being of high quality and important, what results do you (daveS or even JoeF?) have to share?  How much power have you made?  What is your most promising configuration and why?  Where is it leading?
These are normal questions to ask any supposed energy researcher.
Remember, there are infinite ways to not do AWE, so off-target "research" could go on forever with zero results.  In a race from California to New York, you could do a lot of traveling, but if the direction does not include "East" you will never approach the destination.  Do you understand what I just said there?  Because it's pretty important.  It means if someone does not proceed in a valid direction, no amount of "research" will take one to the desired destination.  So you can insist you are traveling to New York, but if, after ten years, you're still on the west coast, people will legitimately ask the basic questions as to whether your chosen direction(s) are valid or effective at all.
Asking about results of claimed research is not a "personal attack".  It's sticking to the topic the other person started.
It seems to me the problem here is you wanting to somehow shield, or protect, your buddy, from ever having to answer the normal questions that would apply to any normal person making the claims he routinely makes.
The only reason I see for you to go down the "personal attack" avenue is so you can cook up some arcane reason to censor people trying to get to the truth.  And when is censorship used in this world?  Are people censored for saying things that are not true?  Is some whacky UFO-nut censored?  No.  Censorship is used almost exclusively to shut out the truth.  It's usually used to protect lies.  Massimo Ippolito just made the same observation I did: Who is Kpower to say anything about anyone else's project?  And others have shared their dismay over your buddy's insistent statements and attitude before, many many times.  OK I know, I did not quote Mr. Ippolito exactly.    So there's another technicality you can use to shut out the truth.  But there it is, one more forum participant protesting the statements of daveS - again.  As usual.  Starting this forum was a good idea on your part.  Trying to control what anyone can say on it is not.  All that will do is ruin what you have created.  If a person is causing a problem, citing it is not necessarily a personal attack.  It is just people noticing the problem.  That person could always, in theory, change their ways.  That assumes they are fully in control of their own behavior, or willing to address the complaints or observations of others about their behavior, or that they have any true interest in ever accomplishing what they say is their goal.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25038 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
Yes, Doug, it is funny when folks claim each other to be better than themselves. Go ahead and nominate your own idea of a leading explorer in AWE.



 

OK JoeF said
"So far, in my viewing of published knowledge, on the screen of variety of AWES, DaveS seems to be number one explorer. " (exact quote, just a few messages before this one I am replying to here.)

DaveS, in the message I am replying to, below, said:
My picks of current "top" folks- For all-out documentary research and knowledge-sharing across all AWE, plus a life in flight, Joe Faust is at the top of the list.

I think the above two statements, both appearing in today's forum, neatly encapsulate the true nature of this supposed open forum, and the real reason for its existence.  It is a JoeF/daveS mutual-admiration society, where these two actors pose as pivotal AWE researchers, practitioners, whatever, through mutual "validation" of each other, bereft of any significant actual power produced, with the validity of their AWE activities found only in their mutual exchange of compliments and positive statements about their own, and each others' activities.  If I ask daveS who else agrees he is an "expert" he will come up with JoeF.  And similarly he describes JoeF as being "at the top of the list", except I have seen nothing in the way of results from either of them.  Is it daveS momentarily producing a claimed "one Watt" of electric power, years ago, or JoeF claiming to have taken a nap under a sheet of refuse he found on the side of the road, hung in his backyard, occasionally wiggling in the wind, as a "demo" of Joe's ongoing assertions that shade from such a "kite" "is AWE"?

Guys, I say, have fun with your fantasies, but don't expect everyone else to go along with them.  You can just as easily spend all day talking about your pet purple elephant with pink polka-dots, or your giant 6-foot-tall rabbit named "Harvey", but not everyone else is going to necessarily agree.  I'd say, together, you've set a new bar for meaningless wind energy crackpotism combined with unfounded insistence of your relevance to wind energy at all.  Don't like what I said?  Try coming up with an economical energy solution.  That's the game.  Not just talk.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25039 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy
Doug consistently disregards the societal necessity to fund losing AWE ideas, to settle misplaced controversy, discover unexpected knowledge, and sustain a diverse R&D ecosystem. This is the logic for seriously testing the 1000ft ST driveshaft as well as the M600 pastiche, if only ARPA-E would test more than one idea.

Is there a new ARPA-E round? Let them fund all supposed losers, Darwinian technical evolution thrives on the tested aftermath.



 

I believe this is in "response" to the latest ARPA-E solicitation, which seems to have been written specifically for Makani.  I'd be real surprised f they don't get a large chunk of the money.  Doesn't matter - you can throw as much money as you want at bad ideas and never get there.  Not so great on land, but it will be the answer at sea?  "your tax dollars at work"...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25040 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: AWESCO Parafoil Loadpath Research
Compare AWESCO's results with Ozone's latest wing designs featured in recent posts. There is a huge culture gap between the empirically-driven sport-wing design world and the theoretically-driven academic-wing designers- SkySails is a rare hybrid case; its North Sails wings are mostly sport-derived and exist in the real world, but this AWESCO work is derived from mathematical calculation, with very little current integration of the two cultures. The trend predicted here is that both sport and academic wing design efforts will increasingly cross-fertilize, with much progress from both sides. The wings will only get better...




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25041 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…
There are others also. 
First use in this topic thread by Massimo: 
"the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. "


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25042 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altit
Doug, so far, two distinct uses has been mentioned in this thread as offers for Massimo's voice on "CF"   yet there are in papers related to KiteGen another use also.   It was simply an invitation for the author to define which of three or more uses he intended.   Maybe he intended what you and Dave brought up, but maybe not. It would be simple for Massimo to tell our general readership what he meant for the "CF" in his post in this topic thread.   Easy. We await politely for the author. ==============
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25043 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…
Capacity Factor is a secondary factor to Safety-Reliability statistics or LCOE. An AWES may sit idle off-season or during calms, and live to fly another day, but it must not crash or otherwise lose money.

Sensitivity Analysis in WP is a sloppy mélange of predictive industrial theories, rather than something that speaks to our AWE problems clearly. Solving AWE depends on high-dimensional uncertainties, no single factor is sufficicent to reason from, or to; even highest-power-to-weight is not decisive (but counts for a lot).







 

There are others also. 

First use in this topic thread by Massimo: 
"the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. "


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25044 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Altit
Doug is confused if he thought JoeF was asking what Capacity Factor is, rather than making clear an ambiguous usage.



 

Doug, so far, two distinct uses has been mentioned in this thread as offers for Massimo's voice on "CF"   yet there are in papers related to KiteGen another use also.   It was simply an invitation for the author to define which of three or more uses he intended.   Maybe he intended what you and Dave brought up, but maybe not. It would be simple for Massimo to tell our general readership what he meant for the "CF" in his post in this topic thread.   Easy. We await politely for the author. ==============

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25045 From: dave santos Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Generation…
Design Sensitivity Analysis has a direct relation to Design Complexity, such that a more complex design is more sensitive to more kinds of faults ("for want of a nail a kingdom was lost"). Thus a high-complexity AWES can be brought down by secondary factors that a low-complexity AWES completely lacks. Due to the slower pay-back of a higher capital-cost high-complexity AWES, estimated by Makani at 5 years, its more sensitive to CF than a low-complexity soft-kite that pays back quickly, in weeks, even at rather low CF. 

CF may prove only critical for overly complex AWES architectures. Low AWES CF is compatible with hybrid generation as well, especially as a partial offset to fossil fuel consumption driving the same generator.



Capacity Factor is a secondary factor to Safety-Reliability statistics or LCOE. An AWES may sit idle off-season or during calms, and live to fly another day, but it must not crash or otherwise lose money.

Sensitivity Analysis in WP is a sloppy mélange of predictive industrial theories, rather than something that speaks to our AWE problems clearly. Solving AWE depends on high-dimensional uncertainties, no single factor is sufficicent to reason from, or to; even highest-power-to-weight is not decisive (but counts for a lot).





On ‎Tuesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎5‎, ‎2019‎ ‎06‎:‎32‎:‎49‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

There are others also. 

First use in this topic thread by Massimo: 
"the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. "


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25046 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/5/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt
For what I see, CF is "capacity factor". And for what I understand a KiteGen's purpose is increasing the capacity factor, using more regular high altitude winds, and also lowering the nominal power in order to fly and produce most of the time. For that the wind speed for the nominal power is close to the cut-in wind speed.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25047 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt
The obvious contradiction is that KiteGen's Stem, in combination with its large wing which has never been seen by us flying, does not plausibly promise to launch at HAWT cut-in speeds, much less promise to have high tested CF. The big KiteGen wing is comparatively massive as a kite wing (compare with soft kites) and would start by hanging far lower than a HAWT rotor, in the poorest surface wind. 

Once again we review wildly optimistic KiteGen claims, where a tested or calculated basis is not provided. This is the project that thought blowers would be a practical launching aid, but now seems content to wait for wind to reach the surface. We have long known that nighttime surface inversion calm is very common, with a nice LLJ flow just above. One would often have to wait for hours in the morning for the upper LLJ flow to break down and usable wind to reach the surface. That's a recipe for poor AWES CF.

In the past, Massimo goes silent when this sort of known gap* in the KiteGen architecture is highlighted, leaving the claims hanging. kPower would have long ago mitigated the Stem CF defect by hauling up KiteGen's power wing into the LLJ layer with a pilot-lift capability, that itself is winch-towed/step-towed up as high as ~500m, to get started early, for highest achievable CF. Non-kiters tend to reject ~primitive~ kite solutions a priori, but if KiteGen's big wing has never flown yet, pilot-lift would have made the difference.

-----------
* the side-slip return-cycle maneuver is also known to be unreliable.



 

For what I see, CF is "capacity factor". And for what I understand a KiteGen's purpose is increasing the capacity factor, using more regular high altitude winds, and also lowering the nominal power in order to fly and produce most of the time. For that the wind speed for the nominal power is close to the cut-in wind speed.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25048 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research Hig h Altitude Wi nd Gene
To summarize what KiteGen has been in AWE, the venture has played a vital role, particularly in the early mobilization of a working prototype in 2004. That was the first AWE springtime when Italy and Northern EU AWE were briefly one happy community. A similar moment passed in the US, 2006-9.

Unfortunately, KiteGen lost its early social networks, first breaking with WoW, a wonderful group of small investors, who barely recouped their investment as KiteGen continued to seek further millions. Some academic collaboration continued, with little KiteGen interest in major conferences or peer-reviewed science. A lack of common cause and values caused parties to drift apart. 

Instead of bringing the AWE world together to participate in a collective quest, KiteGen chose to build the largest patent portfolio in AWE (no claim yet found essential). Given such crass monopolistic intent, SABIC became KiteGen's natural source of capital. All other Italian players meanwhile starved for R&D capital, as KiteGen spent heavily on secondary luxuries (custom composite prototype groundgen hardware, exotic super-capacitor bank, mostly unflyable super-wings, etc).

Pray with MarcoG and WoW that Italy's true AWE rises like a phoenix from the present ashes. One path would be a restructuring of KiteGen with new management, to recover what value might be left. SABIC might even pony up a new round of funding if KiteGen reorganizes radically to embrace a wider community. The research imperative would be for KiteGen to directly test its existing AWES capability against other contending architectures, on a levelized experimental playing field. Otherwise KiteGen seems spent, having lost momentum compared to new major players surging ahead.

AWE R&D poses a global community leadership challenge that no one since Wubbo has been able to meet.





 

Here we consider a key claim in AWE R&D; who actually came up with the problematic "Reeling AWES", which also figures centrally in Roland's 2007 patent, but Massimo is claiming several years priority. Massimo's status as "legendary" in AWE, as Rod puts it, includes not just supposed inventive leaps to validate, but also his melodramatic relations to WoW and other investors, and his Doug-like negativity toward general academic AWE research.

For a kite simulation to have " invented from scratch and  by itself the jibe and the sinusoidal envelope"
is akin to any basic algorithm showing an expected pattern, not an exhaustive AI study of AWES possibility. A faithful sailboat simulation will also spontaineously show "the jibe and the sinusoidal envelope". The Mahalanobis Inference Engine is a toy here. Missing from this "AI" case is a proper AWE knowledgebase to reason over, if an optimal design is wanted. 

in fun, take a closer look at the KiteGen simulation that reveals the birth of a self-aware AI, if not its own self (see attached graphic).
On ‎Tuesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎5‎, ‎2019‎ ‎05‎:‎30‎:‎56‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CST, Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups..com


 

Massimo 
Your technological achievements are legendary.

I hope you don't mind me asking if you consider my main work as a direct derivation or infringement of your protected IP?

As you'll see I also use rotary motion (like a carousel) however my axis is tilted and hollow, and my kites utilise the emergent stability of networking, you'll also see there was no need for control systems on the small prototypes.

Thanks.

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 10:23, Massimo Ippolito m.ippolito@kitegen.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25049 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Kite Window Power Zone Notes
Given normal gravity and wind gradient, the Power Zone (PZ) is a slightly oval patch in the upper center of the Kite Window (KW). The KWPZ tilts to windward like the ideal orbital plane of a DS glider in its wind gradient. "Crosswind power" is most efficiently extracted within the DS orbital plane, as opposed to load-motion along the orthogonal "yo-yo" pumping axis. If the PZ orbital plane is tilted downwind, away from the standard KW surface, the orbit power cycle is smoothed, like the backward tilt of most windward-mounted HAWTs (see classic Dutch Windmills), but this is not helpful in AWE, due to net downforce, which turbine-on-tower design can mostly neglect, but kite design cannot.

KWPZ analysis predicts an optimal motion geometry for an AWES that may prove essential to any winning architecture. In short, the best AWES should work its whole KWPZ, and only extract power by load-motion aligned within the PZ orbital plane 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25050 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: How AI will soon solve AWE
In a few years, your cell phone will tell you the best way to do AWE.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25051 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Kite Flying and METAR parsing with Alexa
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25052 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/6/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes
KWPZ
DKWPZ  Dynamic KWPZ  respects moved or moving KWPZ caused by changes in wind and/or changes in positions of AWES parts. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25053 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes
Turbulence is obviously a huge issue that virtually all AWE models neglect, given exploded complexities. Perhaps tracking KWPZ motion offers a simplified way to analyze turbulence, to classify and understand it usefully for flight control.

A start is to class kite-wind turbulence into two categories, Major Turbulence that shifts the PZ away from the kite, such that the kite must seek or follow the new PZ, and Minor Turbulence, that the kite copes with by simply reorienting its surfaces passively, and make small path corrections. Both spatial deviation and temporal deviation rates apply.

There also looms the kite-state idea of the KW being temporarily destroyed by Major Turbulence, where the kite must figure out what to do, with no ready solution. This occurs in kiting now and then when small-scale cyclonic winds pass through the kite field. A default heuristic in aviation is to "fly the plane", that is to ignore chaotic instrument readings, and just try to maintain basic attitude and stay within structural limits without "fighting" the controls. This can involve the kite being tumbled, and seeking a new KW, perhaps untumbling to restore multiline geometry (incl flipping the control bar).

We are back in virgin territory here, watching KWs tumble, pop, and reappear wildly, with basic equations wanted to relate KWPZ dynamics to wind field turbulence.





 

KWPZ

DKWPZ  Dynamic KWPZ  respects moved or moving KWPZ caused by changes in wind and/or changes in positions of AWES parts. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25054 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes
Circling back to solid theory, consider a kite with tethers radiating in all basic directions, such that wind from any direction selects the most axial tether to tension, defining a new KWPZ. This is the essence of Kite Network Topological Stability as we have defined it for some years now.

Recalling fondly that when KiteShip recruited me in 2006, turbulence was my first concern, and my first DIY instrument was a multi-axis windvane to track not just wind compass angles, but also elevation angles. Now that starting study comes full circle.

“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
"

TSE



 

Turbulence is obviously a huge issue that virtually all AWE models neglect, given exploded complexities. Perhaps tracking KWPZ motion offers a simplified way to analyze turbulence, to classify and understand it usefully for flight control.

A start is to class kite-wind turbulence into two categories, Major Turbulence that shifts the PZ away from the kite, such that the kite must seek or follow the new PZ, and Minor Turbulence, that the kite copes with by simply reorienting its surfaces passively, and make small path corrections. Both spatial deviation and temporal deviation rates apply.

There also looms the kite-state idea of the KW being temporarily destroyed by Major Turbulence, where the kite must figure out what to do, with no ready solution. This occurs in kiting now and then when small-scale cyclonic winds pass through the kite field. A default heuristic in aviation is to "fly the plane", that is to ignore chaotic instrument readings, and just try to maintain basic attitude and stay within structural limits without "fighting" the controls. This can involve the kite being tumbled, and seeking a new KW, perhaps untumbling to restore multiline geometry (incl flipping the control bar).

We are back in virgin territory here, watching KWs tumble, pop, and reappear wildly, with basic equations wanted to relate KWPZ dynamics to wind field turbulence.



On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎07‎:‎32‎:‎44‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

KWPZ

DKWPZ  Dynamic KWPZ  respects moved or moving KWPZ caused by changes in wind and/or changes in positions of AWES parts. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25055 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Kite Window Power Zone Notes
Here is "COTS" math to help inform the case of turbulence in a kite network. Mind the observational spectrum between relativistic "frozen" (relatively static, by a short time-base POV) and overtly dynamic states. Geometric Frustration starts with static analysis.







 

Circling back to solid theory, consider a kite with tethers radiating in all basic directions, such that wind from any direction selects the most axial tether to tension, defining a new KWPZ. This is the essence of Kite Network Topological Stability as we have defined it for some years now.

Recalling fondly that when KiteShip recruited me in 2006, turbulence was my first concern, and my first DIY instrument was a multi-axis windvane to track not just wind compass angles, but also elevation angles. Now that starting study comes full circle.

“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
"

TSE

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎March‎ ‎7‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎18‎:‎21‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CST, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

Turbulence is obviously a huge issue that virtually all AWE models neglect, given exploded complexities. Perhaps tracking KWPZ motion offers a simplified way to analyze turbulence, to classify and understand it usefully for flight control.

A start is to class kite-wind turbulence into two categories, Major Turbulence that shifts the PZ away from the kite, such that the kite must seek or follow the new PZ, and Minor Turbulence, that the kite copes with by simply reorienting its surfaces passively, and make small path corrections. Both spatial deviation and temporal deviation rates apply.

There also looms the kite-state idea of the KW being temporarily destroyed by Major Turbulence, where the kite must figure out what to do, with no ready solution. This occurs in kiting now and then when small-scale cyclonic winds pass through the kite field. A default heuristic in aviation is to "fly the plane", that is to ignore chaotic instrument readings, and just try to maintain basic attitude and stay within structural limits without "fighting" the controls. This can involve the kite being tumbled, and seeking a new KW, perhaps untumbling to restore multiline geometry (incl flipping the control bar).

We are back in virgin territory here, watching KWs tumble, pop, and reappear wildly, with basic equations wanted to relate KWPZ dynamics to wind field turbulence.



On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎07‎:‎32‎:‎44‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

KWPZ

DKWPZ  Dynamic KWPZ  respects moved or moving KWPZ caused by changes in wind and/or changes in positions of AWES parts. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25056 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Tapping the ITCZ with "Molecular Demons"
Branching from the KWPZ topic, which led to frustrated-networks of KWPZ turbulence in kite-matter, which now suggests we have a path to tap the motherload of AWE, the equatorial Inter-Tropical-Convergence-Zone (ITCZ), which has eluded us in formal solution. ITCZ winds tend to be violent vertical storm convection rather than horizontal winds, so the ITCZ ironically looks like a wind desert rather than a wind paradise in our current global wind maps.

Students of thermodynamics are versed in hoary debate over Maxwell's Demon, the idea that particles of various temperatures might be sorted by a low-energy gate-keeper function. 2nd Law paradoxes have been resolved. Maxwell's Demon is accepted in particular cases, without violation. In our AWES cases, our ratchet/rag/string mechanisms are the Demon-Boxes basis, and our "molecules" are energetic packets of moving air.

We have long known that an airborne network of wings in principle can harvest energy from turbulence by ratcheted rope-driving of suitable kiteline iso geometries; only slowly finding respective math, like Frustrated Geometry. We are close to a formal theoretic and numeric basis to predict and design megascale kite network AWES for the ITCZ. 

Hoping JohnO may be reading along; Nigeria is a seasonal ITCZ wind paradise. Envision a vast FF cloud of networked DS kites that eat turbulent wind energy in order to fly any direction at will, and also power whatever is needed. Its really just the extension of tethered-kite-pairs Wilson and German laid out. No one has yet experimented along these lines, which could start with toy kites and simple parts, with passive dynamic stabilities.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25057 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
daveS you are describing a contrived consensus, similar to flying by pulling up on your shoelaces, except you two are pulling upward on each others' shoelaces.  Neat trick.  Reminds me of the old saying: "If you can't dazzle 'me with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"
How about a list of economical airborne wind energy solutions?
I would be seriously interested in seeing some of your flapping or oscillating arrays make some power.  Not sure what stops you from ever finishing any of your designs to get a real demo going that generates some power.  How will you ever know, if you don't try?  Empty internet chit-chat can only take you so far.  I would like to see one of your proposed systems working.  Forget "top" researcher - what about being a researcher at all?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

OK JoeF said
"So far, in my viewing of published knowledge, on the screen of variety of AWES, DaveS seems to be number one explorer. " (exact quote, just a few messages before this one I am replying to here.)

DaveS, in the message I am replying to, below, said:
My picks of current "top" folks- For all-out documentary research and knowledge-sharing across all AWE, plus a life in flight, Joe Faust is at the top of the list.

I think the above two statements, both appearing in today's forum, neatly encapsulate the true nature of this supposed open forum, and the real reason for its existence.  It is a JoeF/daveS mutual-admiration society, where these two actors pose as pivotal AWE researchers, practitioners, whatever, through mutual "validation" of each other, bereft of any significant actual power produced, with the validity of their AWE activities found only in their mutual exchange of compliments and positive statements about their own, and each others' activities.  If I ask daveS who else agrees he is an "expert" he will come up with JoeF.  And similarly he describes JoeF as being "at the top of the list", except I have seen nothing in the way of results from either of them.  Is it daveS momentarily producing a claimed "one Watt" of electric power, years ago, or JoeF claiming to have taken a nap under a sheet of refuse he found on the side of the road, hung in his backyard, occasionally wiggling in the wind, as a "demo" of Joe's ongoing assertions that shade from such a "kite" "is AWE"?

Guys, I say, have fun with your fantasies, but don't expect everyone else to go along with them.  You can just as easily spend all day talking about your pet purple elephant with pink polka-dots, or your giant 6-foot-tall rabbit named "Harvey", but not everyone else is going to necessarily agree.  I'd say, together, you've set a new bar for meaningless wind energy crackpotism combined with unfounded insistence of your relevance to wind energy at all.  Don't like what I said?  Try coming up with an economical energy solution.  That's the game.  Not just talk.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@... #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1279653564 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1279653564 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1279653564 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595 #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1279653564ygrps-yiv-428669127yiv0176166595ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1279653564 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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25058 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: KiteMatter (Kite Network) Crystal Systems
Review of crystal systems for kite-network (kitematter) design is a mind-boggling challenge. At least scholars since antiquity have fully mapped out the basic space of Crystal Systems in terms useful to us, like axes of rotation and mirror symmetries. This helps boil down the ideal crystal system for our peculiar kitespace ordered by things like gravity, wind gradient, and ceiling altitude. Our anchor-fields are key 2D lattice layers, and we have also defined 3D ground-gen, transmission, and pilot-lift layers, that have to line up stacked, receive wind from all directions, support rope-drive load motions, power wings, etc. 

Optimal kitematter crystal structure is too much to down-select just yet, by pure logic. The experimental challenge is at least familiar- start with a toy 3D rigged fast and easy to proof-test marginally, then optimize empirically, test after test. Over time, empirical and theoretical tracks converge on optimal design. KiteMatter is currently classic blue-skies research either way.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25059 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
Doug, 

Content yourself with the old KiteLab Ilwaco videos and posts if you like FlipWing work. If you've sailed, you already know how much power a flogging jib can generate (unlucky sailors instantly killed or thrown overboard). Tacking wings are to well known for you to remain unaware of the idea's success. A tacking sailing ship is a 10MW model. Review major engineering cases rather than wait for me to demo to your particular need.

Keep in mind most of us never insist a top researcher has to demo to suit anyone, that theoretic research is often tops too.

daveS





 

daveS you are describing a contrived consensus, similar to flying by pulling up on your shoelaces, except you two are pulling upward on each others' shoelaces.  Neat trick.  Reminds me of the old saying: "If you can't dazzle 'me with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit"
How about a list of economical airborne wind energy solutions?
I would be seriously interested in seeing some of your flapping or oscillating arrays make some power.  Not sure what stops you from ever finishing any of your designs to get a real demo going that generates some power.  How will you ever know, if you don't try?  Empty internet chit-chat can only take you so far.  I would like to see one of your proposed systems working.  Forget "top" researcher - what about being a researcher at all?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

OK JoeF said
"So far, in my viewing of published knowledge, on the screen of variety of AWES, DaveS seems to be number one explorer. " (exact quote, just a few messages before this one I am replying to here.)

DaveS, in the message I am replying to, below, said:
My picks of current "top" folks- For all-out documentary research and knowledge-sharing across all AWE, plus a life in flight, Joe Faust is at the top of the list.

I think the above two statements, both appearing in today's forum, neatly encapsulate the true nature of this supposed open forum, and the real reason for its existence.  It is a JoeF/daveS mutual-admiration society, where these two actors pose as pivotal AWE researchers, practitioners, whatever, through mutual "validation" of each other, bereft of any significant actual power produced, with the validity of their AWE activities found only in their mutual exchange of compliments and positive statements about their own, and each others' activities.  If I ask daveS who else agrees he is an "expert" he will come up with JoeF.  And similarly he describes JoeF as being "at the top of the list", except I have seen nothing in the way of results from either of them.  Is it daveS momentarily producing a claimed "one Watt" of electric power, years ago, or JoeF claiming to have taken a nap under a sheet of refuse he found on the side of the road, hung in his backyard, occasionally wiggling in the wind, as a "demo" of Joe's ongoing assertions that shade from such a "kite" "is AWE"?

Guys, I say, have fun with your fantasies, but don't expect everyone else to go along with them.  You can just as easily spend all day talking about your pet purple elephant with pink polka-dots, or your giant 6-foot-tall rabbit named "Harvey", but not everyone else is going to necessarily agree.  I'd say, together, you've set a new bar for meaningless wind energy crackpotism combined with unfounded insistence of your relevance to wind energy at all.  Don't like what I said?  Try coming up with an economical energy solution.  That's the game.  Not just talk.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25060 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
Dr. Roland Schmehl is a top researcher in AWE for numerous reasons, comprising the number of publications, the interest he brings to various architectures, and for KitePower.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25061 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: China to launch major AWE R&D
Based on current strategic technological competition between East and West, and a global drumbeat of news like Makani-Shell's AWE partnership, China is surely preparing to respond in a massive way, leveraging its kite traditions and kite manufacturing base. Expect many small signs and a few major announcements, in a sort of "arms-race" dynamic. We've followed a Chinese AWE initial phase a decade ago, of patenting and testing, that did not make popular news, followed by a "winter"; now a "spring" is due to "let a thousand flowers bloom".

Here is a typical Energy Industry page these days, that happens to include both China Energy and AWE news. Explicit mass-media connection of these two topics is imminent.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25062 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Who is a current (and past) "top researcher in AWE"? (plus a Pay
Agreed, Roland is a top researcher by the metric of academic publication, and in the reeling AWES concept-space.



 

Dr. Roland Schmehl is a top researcher in AWE for numerous reasons, comprising the number of publications, the interest he brings to various architectures, and for KitePower.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25063 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy
Uh yeah daveS, there is a new ARPA-E round.  The main winner was chosen before the solicitation was issued.  I've learned how these things work over the years, through private conversations.  You can read between the lines and see it for yourself.  And Makani declined to buy my U.S. Patent covering the spar-buoy floating foundation they say they would like to try, hence "Norway".  That's how it appears to me anyway.
Beyond that, I find your daily derogatory descriptions of my, and other peoples', activities and thoughts, as symptomatic of desperation on your part, combined with a continued belief that internet insults are the path to your success.  Most of these attack-phrases you begin your posts with are better applied to yourself.  If you think losing ideas are the answer, well, OK I get it.  Thanks for explaining.  There is no such need to "settle misplaced controversy".  Misplaced "controversy" lives only in the minds of those with no understanding.  The need is for economical energy solutions, not chasing bad ideas for the sake of making crackpots happy by disproving everything they say.  (Which won't work anyway - they will never shut up.)  Don't worry, they (you) can never be convinced of anything.  It will always remain the case that those with zero results will nonetheless pretend superiority in the art of wind energy, and that their lack of results will always be "someone else's fault".  It's always been that way, from what we in wind energy have experienced, since I've been involved anyway.  There is real wind energy, and there is wannabe wind energy.  One is taken seriously, and utilized, while the other is irrelevant until proven otherwise.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

I believe this is in "response" to the latest ARPA-E solicitation, which seems to have been written specifically for Makani.  I'd be real surprised f they don't get a large chunk of the money.  Doesn't matter - you can throw as much money as you want at bad ideas and never get there.  Not so great on land, but it will be the answer at sea?  "your tax dollars at work"...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25064 From: dougselsam Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation
Some wind energy people insist that "capacity-factor" is the most important thing.
Opinions do vary, however.  Not every wind turbine is designed for maximizing the capacity factor.
Of course, to discuss capacity factor, it helps to know what the term even means, which, in this venue means explaining the ABC's to the perpetually ignorant wet-behind-the-ears newbies.
Capacity-factor is based on the generator nameplate continuous power rating.  The idea is to run the generator as close to its maximum output, as often as possible
I call the urge to maximize utilization of the generator's nameplate rated output "generator worship", since it attempts to run the generator as close to its rated power as much of the time as possible, regardless of how much blade is wasted to do so.  But is maximizing the generator's utilization necessarily the best way to go?  Well, let's examine HOW the capacity factor is maximized.  Typically, for regular wind turbines, it means using a larger rotor, often running in an almost overspeed mode, furling or pitching the rotor to reduce power when the generator reaches rated output.  Then you have a larger-than-necessary rotor, compared to the generator rated output.  Someone could then come along and say you should use a larger generator to take full advantage of your larger rotor. (rotor-worship).  So, maximizing capacity-factor reflects just one design driver (focusing on the generator, rather than the rotor).  It comes down to generator-worship versus rotor-worship.  The design drivers of all components should be balanced, with a view to total system cost and energy capture, rather than just focusing on the generator.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25065 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Makani's Norway Strategy
Condolences to Doug that Makani did not find his IP compelling.



 

Uh yeah daveS, there is a new ARPA-E round.  The main winner was chosen before the solicitation was issued.  I've learned how these things work over the years, through private conversations.  You can read between the lines and see it for yourself.  And Makani declined to buy my U.S. Patent covering the spar-buoy floating foundation they say they would like to try, hence "Norway".  That's how it appears to me anyway.
Beyond that, I find your daily derogatory descriptions of my, and other peoples', activities and thoughts, as symptomatic of desperation on your part, combined with a continued belief that internet insults are the path to your success.  Most of these attack-phrases you begin your posts with are better applied to yourself.  If you think losing ideas are the answer, well, OK I get it.  Thanks for explaining.  There is no such need to "settle misplaced controversy".  Misplaced "controversy" lives only in the minds of those with no understanding.  The need is for economical energy solutions, not chasing bad ideas for the sake of making crackpots happy by disproving everything they say.  (Which won't work anyway - they will never shut up.)  Don't worry, they (you) can never be convinced of anything.  It will always remain the case that those with zero results will nonetheless pretend superiority in the art of wind energy, and that their lack of results will always be "someone else's fault".  It's always been that way, from what we in wind energy have experienced, since I've been involved anyway.  There is real wind energy, and there is wannabe wind energy.  One is taken seriously, and utilized, while the other is irrelevant until proven otherwise.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

I believe this is in "response" to the latest ARPA-E solicitation, which seems to have been written specifically for Makani.  I'd be real surprised f they don't get a large chunk of the money.  Doesn't matter - you can throw as much money as you want at bad ideas and never get there.  Not so great on land, but it will be the answer at sea?  "your tax dollars at work"...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25066 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation
Doug overlooks AWE's particular CF complexities, discussed over many years.

Only reasoning thus- "typically, for regular wind turbines", fails to capture AWES CF dimensions related to aviation practice.



 

Some wind energy people insist that "capacity-factor" is the most important thing.
Opinions do vary, however.  Not every wind turbine is designed for maximizing the capacity factor.
Of course, to discuss capacity factor, it helps to know what the term even means, which, in this venue means explaining the ABC's to the perpetually ignorant wet-behind-the-ears newbies.
Capacity-factor is based on the generator nameplate continuous power rating.  The idea is to run the generator as close to its maximum output, as often as possible
I call the urge to maximize utilization of the generator's nameplate rated output "generator worship", since it attempts to run the generator as close to its rated power as much of the time as possible, regardless of how much blade is wasted to do so.  But is maximizing the generator's utilization necessarily the best way to go?  Well, let's examine HOW the capacity factor is maximized.  Typically, for regular wind turbines, it means using a larger rotor, often running in an almost overspeed mode, furling or pitching the rotor to reduce power when the generator reaches rated output.  Then you have a larger-than-necessary rotor, compared to the generator rated output.  Someone could then come along and say you should use a larger generator to take full advantage of your larger rotor. (rotor-worship).  So, maximizing capacity-factor reflects just one design driver (focusing on the generator, rather than the rotor).  It comes down to generator-worship versus rotor-worship.  The design drivers of all components should be balanced, with a view to total system cost and energy capture, rather than just focusing on the generator.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25067 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: KiteGen Research "CF" High Altitude Wind Generation
A reminder that in AWE, the most effective way to increase CF is to operate in higher wind that towers cannot reach.



 

Doug overlooks AWE's particular CF complexities, discussed over many years.

Only reasoning thus- "typically, for regular wind turbines", fails to capture AWES CF dimensions related to aviation practice.

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎March‎ ‎7‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎47‎:‎44‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

Some wind energy people insist that "capacity-factor" is the most important thing.
Opinions do vary, however.  Not every wind turbine is designed for maximizing the capacity factor.
Of course, to discuss capacity factor, it helps to know what the term even means, which, in this venue means explaining the ABC's to the perpetually ignorant wet-behind-the-ears newbies.
Capacity-factor is based on the generator nameplate continuous power rating.  The idea is to run the generator as close to its maximum output, as often as possible
I call the urge to maximize utilization of the generator's nameplate rated output "generator worship", since it attempts to run the generator as close to its rated power as much of the time as possible, regardless of how much blade is wasted to do so.  But is maximizing the generator's utilization necessarily the best way to go?  Well, let's examine HOW the capacity factor is maximized.  Typically, for regular wind turbines, it means using a larger rotor, often running in an almost overspeed mode, furling or pitching the rotor to reduce power when the generator reaches rated output.  Then you have a larger-than-necessary rotor, compared to the generator rated output.  Someone could then come along and say you should use a larger generator to take full advantage of your larger rotor. (rotor-worship).  So, maximizing capacity-factor reflects just one design driver (focusing on the generator, rather than the rotor).  It comes down to generator-worship versus rotor-worship.  The design drivers of all components should be balanced, with a view to total system cost and energy capture, rather than just focusing on the generator.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25068 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
As noted on the KiteGen CF usage topic, AWE CF depends uniquely on factors related to aviation and the greater constancy of wind with altitude. Conventional wind design is not aviation design capable of reaching superior upper wind. A quick review of past CF discussion-

Aviation reliability requires constant inspection and maintenance, which reduces CF compared to industrial surface equipment. Storm avoidance for an AWES requires conservative retraction, while conventional turbines operate right up to storm squalls, feather, then recover fast, compared to aircraft that must land and take off. When winds go light, the highest flying AWES is last in the sky and the lightest AWES is first to launch when wind returns. The CF availability of upper winds are superior to conventional surface wind, offsetting and maybe beating aviation CF losses.

We have long identified here many other critical differences between upper and surface wind engineering, each necessarily optimized to harvest two very different wind resources, with very different methods demanded for a turbine-on-a-pole v. power kites.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25069 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
Another fundamental design principle tending toward highest CF for an AWES includes highest power-to-weight, which is far less true of conventional wind tech, where LCOE truly dominates. Early AWE clearly has a long way to go to match conventional wind LCOE, lots of great R&D work to do, to drop prices and increase CF over time, as conventional wind has done in its developmental cycle.



 

As noted on the KiteGen CF usage topic, AWE CF depends uniquely on factors related to aviation and the greater constancy of wind with altitude. Conventional wind design is not aviation design capable of reaching superior upper wind. A quick review of past CF discussion-

Aviation reliability requires constant inspection and maintenance, which reduces CF compared to industrial surface equipment. Storm avoidance for an AWES requires conservative retraction, while conventional turbines operate right up to storm squalls, feather, then recover fast, compared to aircraft that must land and take off. When winds go light, the highest flying AWES is last in the sky and the lightest AWES is first to launch when wind returns. The CF availability of upper winds are superior to conventional surface wind, offsetting and maybe beating aviation CF losses.

We have long identified here many other critical differences between upper and surface wind engineering, each necessarily optimized to harvest two very different wind resources, with very different methods demanded for a turbine-on-a-pole v. power kites.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25070 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Rotokite on New Forum
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25071 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Wubbo Ockels Documentary Project
Looking good, in this preview; "Wubbo Lives!"




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25072 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2019
Subject: Enerkite lands €2.3 million; suspense lingers over its Oct 2018 la
Another funding round for Enerkite to work out apparent challenges-


=====machine translation===========

Great! EnerKíte receives EU grant of €2.3 million 

Published: 20 February 2019 Last week, the EnerKíte and the EU Commission signed the contract to promote our project "AWESOME."  AWESOME stands for:  "Airborne Wind Energy and Storage system for Off-grid and Mobile Electricity."
With a funding ratio of 70%, EnerKíte receives a grant of €2.3 million for innovation and pilot development. This will further boost our performance for years to come and will allow us to raise additional resources for sustainable success. EnerKíte received top marks and scored 14.62 out of a possible 15. As the winner of the EU H2020 SME competition, Enerkite is one of the top 3% of Europe's most innovative companies.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25073 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Applied Tracking Control for Kite Power Systems

Applied Tracking Control for Kite Power Systems

Claudius Jehle and Roland Schmehl 

Delft University of Technology, Delft, The Netherlands.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25074 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Karin Lindholm

High Flying, Electrifying 

Assessment and Extension of a Kite Model for Power Production


Karin Lindholm

============================

UPTEC ES15013 

Examensarbete 20 p Maj 2015


UPPSALA UNIVERSITET


============================

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uppsala_University


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25075 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Note. Circa 2015

Note 

Go, Fly a Kite: The Promises (and Perils) of Airborne Wind-Energy Systems*

* * I would like to dedicate this Note to my wife, Jenn Langley, for her love, patience, and support. I would like to thank Rod E. Wetsel for introducing me to the world of wind law. Anything of value in this Note is a credit to his instruction. The failings are mine alone. 

=====================   Texas Law Review, Vol. 94:425

Circa 2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25076 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Heilmann Jannis

Master Thesis

The Technical and Economic Potential of

Airborne Wind Energy

Heilmann Jannis

8/30/2012


================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25077 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
And Dr. Roland Schmehl considers that a low cut-in wind speed is more possible by using soft wings.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25078 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/8/2019
Subject: Feasibility Study of Pumping Cycle Kite Power System Implication in

Article in International Journal of Smart Grid and Clean Energy 

vol. 2, no. X, Month 2013


Feasibility Study of Pumping Cycle Kite Power System Implication in Scotland UK


 Zhihui Ye, Harry Lawner, Issa Chear, Marcus Ross 


School of The Built Environment and Architecture, London South Bank University, 103 Borough Road, London, UK, SE1 0AA


=====================================