Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 22367 to 22417 Page 340 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22367 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22368 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22369 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22370 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22371 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22372 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22373 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22374 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22375 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22376 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22377 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22378 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22379 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22380 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22381 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22382 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22383 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22384 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22385 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22386 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22387 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: thoughts from walking inside a giant fabric turbine blade

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22388 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22389 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22390 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Doug: "After 10 years what have I said that has been proven wrong?"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22391 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22392 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22393 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22394 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22395 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22396 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22397 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22398 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22399 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22400 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22401 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22402 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22403 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22404 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22405 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22407 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Jalbert revisited today

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22408 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Re: Jalbert revisited today

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22409 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Raghu Das, IDTechEx AWE Report Co-Author

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22410 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Webinar scheduled by Dr. Peter Harrop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22411 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Patent on cord material by Garrett Storm Dunker of Houston, Texas

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22412 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Storm Dunker

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22413 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Static electricity in AWES +-+-+-+-+-+-+---------++++++

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22414 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Re: Patent on cord material by Garrett Storm Dunker of Houston, Texa

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22415 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Push-Flare Cargo-Parafoil Landing Method

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22416 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/30/2017
Subject: Parachute-type sail for boats

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22417 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/30/2017
Subject: Re: Kiting Asteroids




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22367 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
"Dr. Harrop is to be lauded for making his predictions as best he can about how AWE will develop."
Well, go ahead and "laud" him if you feel the urge.  I don't think anyone is implying there is anything wrong with Dr. Harrop trying to make AWE predictions, just that we on this list have already seen the inaccuracy of such predictions.  Maybe we should make a list of which predictions have come true.  Might that be a null set?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22368 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
"The role of professional engineering prediction overall in AWE is secure, even if many given predictions are not."
OK I've been predicting, going back to Magenn, and continuing through all the kite-reelers, etc., that none of the teams would enjoy much success for now, because (in my opinion) the configurations were not going to cut the mustard.  The veracity of that prediction seems to be solidifying day-by-day and year-by-year as history unfolds with still no system in regular operation at year 10 of the current hype cycle.  So do I get any credit for expressing an accurate prediction in a forest of overly-optimistic hype that has NOT come true?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22369 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
It's interesting to learn of new major investors coming into AWE. What bothers me is that AWEIA's DaveS seems to be the lone voice canvassing for 'cross-platform' or multi-lateral investments diversified across technolgical approaches rather than the precarious 'early down-selects' which are the order of the day.
 
John Adeoye  Oyebanji   B.Sc. MCPN
Managing Consultant & CEO
Hardensoft International Limited
<Technologies  
Udo's small well-credentialed team includes two particle physicists, with Moritz as head of a "Scientific Advisory Board" (whose members are not listed). How we would love to read that board's deliberations, not just the "Trillion Dollar Drone" pitch. Megascale AWE may end up nothing like the popular conception of a drone, with scant market overlap. Standard drone tech has severe scale-limits and AWES based on such tech seem to only promise small-scale capability. Daidalos investment pattern seems focused on Northern EU AWE R&D (dependent on reeling but hedging on the soft- v hard-wing trade), without significant diversification globally. This may not be the most scientific investment bet, but at least the experiment runs on OPM.

In theory, the first significant investor to undertake global M&A of all the small merit players will have a huge commercial advantage. GoogleX, SABIC, and so on, might have gone this route, as well as Udo, who seems to have tied up his starting cash and not raised much new capital. Daidalos's early window-of-opportunity to lead the world is closing. It may be the Breakthrough Energy Coalition that finally pulls everything together for mid-cap AWE R&D across the current provincial barriers. Hurry up, Daidalos, and perhaps lead us all into the Coalition, but with a far wider view of the R&D challenge.







Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22370 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)
Children of the Wind: Advanced Wind Energy Tech
Children of the Wind is the trademark name used by the original renderer of Superturbine, formerly of "Dreamworks".
http://www.childrenofthewind.net

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22371 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
"We are top AWE domain knowledge experts,"
Can you point to anyone besides yourself confirming your status as an "AWE expert"?
Or is this just your own opinion?
Isn't the status of "expert" normally an opinion expressed or confirmed by others, rather than being a repetitive  flattering description of one's self?
What evidence would confirm this status?  Is there a working AWE system we should know about?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22372 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
Doug,

Your hopeless opinion of others in AWE is overblown. Dr Harrop is actually doing a savant-level job trying to make sense of AWE. His report continues to develop rapidly.* Many others are also worthy commentators. You would be hard pressed to do better, even without a soured perspective of "futility".

AWEfest is a scared duty in honor of Wubbo, who came up with the idea of a popular festival powered by AWE. Its simply not your personality to see the "newborn baby" in the various partial and fizzled rehearsals (Enerkite making AWE waffles; kPower, a few plaintive electric guitar noises, with only a few friends; AWE demos at kite fests, etc). The baby just has to grow.

Rest assured, the AWE community does not give up on any goal Wubbo set for us. For my part, I will try again soon. It would be cool if Dr Harrop himself, with his IDTechEx event capability, helped AWEfest establish itself, so you may finally be contented. If you could, you would do AWEfest with AWES you are developing, so we are filling that gap as best we can,

daveS

---------
* Joe and I are now in friendly contact with Dr Harrop.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:29 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"Dr. Harrop is to be lauded for making his predictions as best he can about how AWE will develop."
Well, go ahead and "laud" him if you feel the urge.  I don't think anyone is implying there is anything wrong with Dr. Harrop trying to make AWE predictions, just that we on this list have already seen the inaccuracy of such predictions.  Maybe we should make a list of which predictions have come true.  Might that be a null set?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22373 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
One argument emphatically repeated many times by the self-described AWE expert on this forum has been to cite the GE peripheral experiment to try blades made of a fabric-covered frame.  The reason I say "peripheral" is that, as I reported on this Yahoo list a few years ago, I had happened to run into GE's director of research in wind energy and when I asked him about it I could tell he did not really take it very seriously.  Seems like it was mostly just someone taking advantage of a funding opportunity.  We did have fabric blades for 2000 years, and blades made of fabric-covered frames for the next thousand years, up until the era of composites such as fiberglass and resin.  The speed required for efficient energy harvesting leans away from fabric for blades, but you never know. 

The topic of making predictions is active today, and juxtaposing that topic, one observation I have about predictions and forward-looking statements in AWE (and elsewhere) is the persistent lack of followup.  We hear a company announce they will power a remote village, for example, but there is no followup.  The world sits in eager anticipation, but no further information emerges.  We are just left hanging.  We have to "do the math" and figure out for ourselves it was inaccurate information the whole time. 

This phenomenon seems epidemic in AWE circles:  make a statement about future actions, then hope nobody remembers, as the statement is rendered untrue by the passage of time.  That is the whole point of noting the statistical worthlessness of predictions in the AWE field. 

But this could be remedied.  I figured I'd wait a few years and THEN (now) ask the self-described AWE expert to fill us in on the current status of the GE fabric blade project he has cited so many times:  How is that project going?  Did they ever even build such a blade at all?  Did they ever run one?  What is the result of this project today?  This followup is MORE important than the original statements.  Predictions are even more worthless when they are made yet never followed up on.  One reason for avoiding the issue of following up on previous statements could be not WANTING to know the answer.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22374 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
Doug,

The non-futility of weather forecasting is the topic here, not how AWE is developing too slow to satisfy you emotionally, as you consistently predict. No, you don't get any aerospace credit for that.

Its true that these days my reminder is the commoner case, of how you used to insistently predict "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine (R)", without any sense of "futility". If the ST does not prevail as you predicted, the widely-expected failures you also spotted may not count for much. Your best best bet is to come up with something new and compelling in AWE, to duly earn peer admiration. Anyone who has not given up is still in play.

At least occasional weather forecasting error in AWES operations is worth the general correctness of modern forecasts, and just so, the losing AWES architectures are worth vetting in testing in favor of better designs. There really is less uncertainty how AWE will develop as time goes by,

daveS


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:37 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"The role of professional engineering prediction overall in AWE is secure, even if many given predictions are not."
OK I've been predicting, going back to Magenn, and continuing through all the kite-reelers, etc., that none of the teams would enjoy much success for now, because (in my opinion) the configurations were not going to cut the mustard.  The veracity of that prediction seems to be solidifying day-by-day and year-by-year as history unfolds with still no system in regular operation at year 10 of the current hype cycle.  So do I get any credit for expressing an accurate prediction in a forest of overly-optimistic hype that has NOT come true?



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22375 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
Doug,

You are off topic as usual, but yes I can point to several third-party instances where my AWE expertise has been recognized. 

UTexas Aerospace Engineering invited me to present the first ever AWE Seminar in 2009. My presentation at AWEC2011 of AWES kite array concepts reflects my top expertise in that particular branch of study. The World Kite Museum, over an eight year period as scholar-in-residence recognizes my expertise in AWE from the classic kiting perspective. My proudest recognitions are informal, that Wubbo chose to sit with me at the 2011 conference banquet, and pick my brain. My dad's opinion, as a retired airshow dare-devil skydiver and 747-400 captain, that I am "a child of the wind", is perhaps too biased, since he raised me in aviation, but it counts with me. Dave Culp, and many other kite masters, also trained me. I know almost all the top kite technologists as mentors.

I could go on, *blush*, but this topic is Dr Harrop's opinions, not your apparent deep confusion over who is an AWE expert or not. JoeF, for example, is also a top AWE expert, whether or not you know it. Recall you could not even be bothered to read Loyd, nor spell his name correctly,

daveS


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 2:03 PM, "dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Doug,

Your hopeless opinion of others in AWE is overblown. Dr Harrop is actually doing a savant-level job trying to make sense of AWE. His report continues to develop rapidly.* Many others are also worthy commentators. You would be hard pressed to do better, even without a soured perspective of "futility".

AWEfest is a scared duty in honor of Wubbo, who came up with the idea of a popular festival powered by AWE. Its simply not your personality to see the "newborn baby" in the various partial and fizzled rehearsals (Enerkite making AWE waffles; kPower, a few plaintive electric guitar noises, with only a few friends; AWE demos at kite fests, etc). The baby just has to grow.

Rest assured, the AWE community does not give up on any goal Wubbo set for us. For my part, I will try again soon. It would be cool if Dr Harrop himself, with his IDTechEx event capability, helped AWEfest establish itself, so you may finally be contented. If you could, you would do AWEfest with AWES you are developing, so we are filling that gap as best we can,

daveS

---------
* Joe and I are now in friendly contact with Dr Harrop.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:29 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"Dr. Harrop is to be lauded for making his predictions as best he can about how AWE will develop."
Well, go ahead and "laud" him if you feel the urge.  I don't think anyone is implying there is anything wrong with Dr. Harrop trying to make AWE predictions, just that we on this list have already seen the inaccuracy of such predictions.  Maybe we should make a list of which predictions have come true.  Might that be a null set?




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22376 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
JohnO,

We hold out hope BEV will do what GoogleX, EU, ARPA, and other major funders did not, to conduct broader AWE R&D.

Meanwhile, we reason over the world of clues we have, as a sort of virtual fly-off,

daveS


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:47 PM, "Hardensoft International Limited hardensoftintl@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
It's interesting to learn of new major investors coming into AWE. What bothers me is that AWEIA's DaveS seems to be the lone voice canvassing for 'cross-platform' or multi-lateral investments diversified across technolgical approaches rather than the precarious 'early down-selects' which are the order of the day.
 
John Adeoye  Oyebanji   B.Sc. MCPN
Managing Consultant & CEO
Hardensoft International Limited
<Technologies  
Udo's small well-credentialed team includes two particle physicists, with Moritz as head of a "Scientific Advisory Board" (whose members are not listed). How we would love to read that board's deliberations, not just the "Trillion Dollar Drone" pitch. Megascale AWE may end up nothing like the popular conception of a drone, with scant market overlap. Standard drone tech has severe scale-limits and AWES based on such tech seem to only promise small-scale capability. Daidalos investment pattern seems focused on Northern EU AWE R&D (dependent on reeling but hedging on the soft- v hard-wing trade), without significant diversification globally. This may not be the most scientific investment bet, but at least the experiment runs on OPM.

In theory, the first significant investor to undertake global M&A of all the small merit players will have a huge commercial advantage. GoogleX, SABIC, and so on, might have gone this route, as well as Udo, who seems to have tied up his starting cash and not raised much new capital. Daidalos's early window-of-opportunity to lead the world is closing. It may be the Breakthrough Energy Coalition that finally pulls everything together for mid-cap AWE R&D across the current provincial barriers. Hurry up, Daidalos, and perhaps lead us all into the Coalition, but with a far wider view of the R&D challenge.









Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22377 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Doug is too hasty to dismiss fabric covered blades, nor is GE the only player. Earlier this week I was in Lubbock at the Wind Power Museum, and Founder/Director Coy Harris had just finished setting up his 50kw prototype turbine from the seventies, with fabric covered blades, newly recovered. It looked great.

Doug need not fear anyone will forget fabric-covered aerostructure, certainly not in general aviation, where its alive and well, nor on the Web, with archival search. Noting that its Pierre who has lately been citing "fabric-covered frame" as an AWES airframe basis. I have to agree with Pierre, that the method remains established in our design toolkit.




On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 2:39 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
One argument emphatically repeated many times by the self-described AWE expert on this forum has been to cite the GE peripheral experiment to try blades made of a fabric-covered frame.  The reason I say "peripheral" is that, as I reported on this Yahoo list a few years ago, I had happened to run into GE's director of research in wind energy and when I asked him about it I could tell he did not really take it very seriously.  Seems like it was mostly just someone taking advantage of a funding opportunity.  We did have fabric blades for 2000 years, and blades made of fabric-covered frames for the next thousand years, up until the era of composites such as fiberglass and resin.  The speed required for efficient energy harvesting leans away from fabric for blades, but you never know. 

The topic of making predictions is active today, and juxtaposing that topic, one observation I have about predictions and forward-looking statements in AWE (and elsewhere) is the persistent lack of followup.  We hear a company announce they will power a remote village, for example, but there is no followup.  The world sits in eager anticipation, but no further information emerges.  We are just left hanging.  We have to "do the math" and figure out for ourselves it was inaccurate information the whole time. 

This phenomenon seems epidemic in AWE circles:  make a statement about future actions, then hope nobody remembers, as the statement is rendered untrue by the passage of time.  That is the whole point of noting the statistical worthlessness of predictions in the AWE field. 

But this could be remedied.  I figured I'd wait a few years and THEN (now) ask the self-described AWE expert to fill us in on the current status of the GE fabric blade project he has cited so many times:  How is that project going?  Did they ever even build such a blade at all?  Did they ever run one?  What is the result of this project today?  This followup is MORE important than the original statements.  Predictions are even more worthless when they are made yet never followed up on.  One reason for avoiding the issue of following up on previous statements could be not WANTING to know the answer.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22378 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)
"Children of the Wind" is public domain. The meetup is not even commercial. Doug is mistaken to think there is some trademark enforcement angle.

Here is another non-infringer, from the Land of Cody and were my ancestors lived. Note the wonderful love of wind, to proudly proclaim to be born of the Wind. All such children deserve the name-





On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:48 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Children of the Wind: Advanced Wind Energy Tech
Children of the Wind is the trademark name used by the original renderer of Superturbine, formerly of "Dreamworks".
http://www.childrenofthewind.net



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22379 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Wind Energy Transitioned from soft cloth blades 1000 years ago, and from fabric on a frame maybe 150 years ago.  Of millions of wind turbines operating at this moment, none use cloth blades.  There are distinct reasons that can be shown from elementary physics equations of motion and energy.  I think it is up to the self-described AWE expert who cited the GE project years ago in this favorite topic of his, to follow up on his citation and bring us the results of that project, now that it has had time to actually happen.  Statements of future events may not be verifiable at the time they are made, but many are verifiable eventually.  So verify, please.  I will be happy to hear the results, and I think the rest of us deserve to hear the results.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22380 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Doug consistently overlooks that AWES are aircraft, that fabric covered wings are still in common use for aircraft, even in new designs. He also overlooks that there are hundreds of Dutch windmills with fabric covered blades, still going strong, so his statement about no wind turbines using fabric blades is objectively wrong-

Doug wrote: " Of millions of wind turbines operating at this moment, none use cloth blades. "

You have to love all kinds if wings, as a top expert.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:11 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Wind Energy Transitioned from soft cloth blades 1000 years ago, and from fabric on a frame maybe 150 years ago.  Of millions of wind turbines operating at this moment, none use cloth blades.  There are distinct reasons that can be shown from elementary physics equations of motion and energy.  I think it is up to the self-described AWE expert who cited the GE project years ago in this favorite topic of his, to follow up on his citation and bring us the results of that project, now that it has had time to actually happen.  Statements of future events may not be verifiable at the time they are made, but many are verifiable eventually.  So verify, please.  I will be happy to hear the results, and I think the rest of us deserve to hear the results.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22381 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms
Interesting to read this ongoing critique of Makani, year after year, consisting solely of hypothetical guesses as to whether they have flown anything at all in years.  Maybe they are scared to crash their plane, saving it to be hung from the ceiling in a museum.  Ironic that we've heard of no tests since they hired the originator of the phrase saying "test" 3 times.  As though nobody thought of testing before that point.  It seems like there is no information at all about them.  Maybe they gave up.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22382 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms
In a single post we first read:
As for "open debate", the AWES Forum is open, currently unmoderated ...The AWES Forum is the most open AWE debating forum in existence, for almost ten years. Let anyone create a more open AWE debating space.

But then, someone had a differing opinion, so:
Thanks JoeF, for applying moderation again.

All within a few minutes.  Unbelieveable (for those who are not used to it).  This could perhaps be best appreciated as comedy - that's how I see it.
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22383 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
"What bothers me is that AWEIA's DaveS seems to be the lone voice canvassing for 'cross-platform' or multi-lateral investments diversified across technolgical approaches rather than the precarious 'early down-selects' which are the order of the day."
He's also the lone voice claiming to be an (the?) "AWE expert", claiming that he has tested more configurations than anyone, and claiming that he has the final answer for AWE in his Bose-Einstein flapping stacks to generate TeraWatts.  So why fund anything else?  Sorry but I'm just playing back his own statements here.  If the "AWE expert" has the "AWE answer" why would he advocate other approaches, and why is he not operating one of his flapping stack machines today? 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22384 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Comparing Pierre's evaluation criteria with Aerospace norms
Doug,

Its true, JoeF bravely left the AWES Forum unmoderated, but Pierre could not resist characterizing Makani conjecture as "lies", which is not acceptable behavior under prefessional codes-of-conduct. You have had the same problem of claiming "lies" without proof of deceptive intent, and even worse, when your posts were so profane they were unsuited for a family friendly audience, a place where school kids could watch how cordial adults discuss kite energy.

It really was nice for a while, and Joef is to be commended for the experiment. Pierre is simply back on the same moderation he chafed under before, and also under someAWE moderation. If wants to cry "lies" without moderation, let him start a blog. You have the same options. Everyone can have a place to post in AWE without trolls, who are not, as a rule, supporting RAD.

If you ever do live up to your claim to be the world's greatest living wind inventor (to T. Boone Pickens), it won't be by complaining about trivia like who trademarked a cliche like "children of the wind", as if the Comanches are in violation. Your AWE designs must out-fly all others who make no such ridiculous claims. Even by Pierre's criteria, you are falling behind,

daveS


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:45 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
In a single post we first read:
As for "open debate", the AWES Forum is open, currently unmoderated ...The AWES Forum is the most open AWE debating forum in existence, for almost ten years. Let anyone create a more open AWE debating space.

But then, someone had a differing opinion, so:
Thanks JoeF, for applying moderation again.

All within a few minutes.  Unbelieveable (for those who are not used to it).  This could perhaps be best appreciated as comedy - that's how I see it.
 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22385 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
Doug overlooks that I have a long list of favorite top AWE experts. Not just JoeF, but DaveC and DaveL, also Peter Lynn, Joe Hadzicki, Dan Tracy, and so on. Wubbo, Pockock, and Jalbert count. I could go on and on... Its Doug who seems not to be able to list top AWE experts.

As for AWE investment, if I was somehow in control of it, I would divide it across all contenders for a grand fly-off, ST included. That's an expert aerospace default strategy. Daidalos chose to bet on just two inside players, so far as we know, rather than broad R&D like JohnO properly invokes here. How Doug invested in AWE seems quite narrow, only on his pet idea.

I am building and testing kite formations whose dynamics are BEC analogs. Doug is just not able to see BEC dynamics in kite trains, despite the videos. Academic theorists even see such effects in crowds and traffic. The AWES metamaterial paradigm springs from the observant noting of QM statistics in kites. This is a scientific conjecture of merit, even if the critics cannot master the homework, but only mock the effort.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 5:01 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"What bothers me is that AWEIA's DaveS seems to be the lone voice canvassing for 'cross-platform' or multi-lateral investments diversified across technolgical approaches rather than the precarious 'early down-selects' which are the order of the day."
He's also the lone voice claiming to be an (the?) "AWE expert", claiming that he has tested more configurations than anyone, and claiming that he has the final answer for AWE in his Bose-Einstein flapping stacks to generate TeraWatts.  So why fund anything else?  Sorry but I'm just playing back his own statements here.  If the "AWE expert" has the "AWE answer" why would he advocate other approaches, and why is he not operating one of his flapping stack machines today? 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22386 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
Doug,
Your hopeless opinion of others in AWE is overblown.
After 10 years what have I said that has been proven wrong?

Dr Harrop is actually doing a savant-level job trying to make sense of AWE.
He makes a living selling reports on whatever his latest interest is, for thousands of dollars - great.
In our case,
What is he going to tell us we haven't already heard?

His report continues to develop rapidly.*
Seemed like it was already finished and offered for sale as far as I saw...
Is he going to change it now to say the final answer is Bose-Einstein Condensate TeraWatt Flapping Stacks?

Many others are also worthy commentators.

Yes 10 years of  "worthy commentators".  It never seems to occur to most of them that "commenting" has not achieved much in these 10 years.  And after the passage of time, how many "comments" have turned out to be "worthy"?  After 10 years, claiming you are an "AWE expert" now you "laud" someone for "trying to make sense of" the topic which you claim to be an "expert".  Are you an "expert", or are YOU "trying to make sense" of AWE?  And you seldom answer any question put to you.  YOu avoid answering almost every actual question.  That is not a discussion, that is more like a game you are playing hoping nobody will notice,j ust ike you hope nobody will notice most of what you say never comes true.  I asked, specifically, if anyone besides YOU is calling YOU an "AWE expert".  Can you provide any references?  No, you just ignore the question and go on denigrating those who know what they are talking about.

You would be hard pressed to do better, even without a soured perspective of "futility".
OK, whatever you say...  I am the only one who has accurately and consistently predicted no working systems by all the combined "teams".  A decade later and still nothing operating?  Come on!  Whom do you think you're kidding at this point?

AWEfest is a scared duty in honor of Wubbo,
Yes "scared" is the right word - scared to have a concert with no AWE system to power it.  What makes someone schedule a concert to be powered by something they do not have?  Is that the mark of a rational mind?  I'm talking about YOU, not "Wubbo".
who came up with the idea of a popular festival powered by AWE.
I thought it was a concert.  With the band picked. 
And to me, if there is a "sacred duty" regarding "Wubbo" and AWE, it is TO BUILD A LADDERMILL INSTEAD OF HAVING THE EXCUSE THAT "IT WOULD BE TOO HARD"!!!!!  What a joke! 

Its simply not your personality to see the "newborn baby" in the various partial and fizzled rehearsals (Enerkite making AWE waffles; kPower, a few plaintive electric guitar noises, with only a few friends; AWE demos at kite fests, etc). The baby just has to grow.
Last I saw you had backtracked.  The "baby" had become "an embryo".  Soon it will be a sperm looking for an egg, then it will just be what it is now: nothing.  Yes, isn't this "the syndrome"?: Wannabe wind energy breakthrough person has their own words held up to them later, and their answer is that the problem must be the personality of the person reading that person's own words back to him.  Never an apology, just more accusations and insults.

Rest assured, the AWE community does not give up on any goal Wubbo set for us.
Desperately trying to come up with a way to leverage some "politically-correct" angle since "Wubbo" has passed away.  "Virtue-signalling" is the latest term for it.  Not working...

 For my part, I will try again soon.
Another AWE statement of future action.  That IS the problem with AWE.  It's ALL statements of future actions that never happen - that's pretty much all it is.  One thing never changes: people who do not understand wind energy will say anything about it, and will almost always be wrong.

It would be cool if Dr Harrop himself, with his IDTechEx event capability, helped AWEfest establish itself, so you may finally be contented.

It seems weird to me how easily you drop into inappropriate "hero-worship" of any new person who comes along with the slightest hint of "credentials".  It is also weird how you can cross up so many various topics to obfuscate a simple discussion.  I had said I thought, based on how previous predictions regarding AWE have turned out, that predictions in AWE are largely worthless.  You said they were NOT worthless.  So I pointed out YOUR previous predictions, such as that you were "having an AWE-powered concert", at a specific park in the Austin area, in a specific time-frame (a few years ago), with a specific band.  Rather than simply admit you got way ahead of yourself and went delusional over something you had no way to actually do, your answer is to make MORE similar predictions of the future.  Deny deny deny, instead of test test test?  Reminds me of Altaeros.  Your answer to their inaccurate prediction was their next prediction.  Well, they didn't power that village, but they have some NEW statements of future action, and apparently someone is gullible enough to endlessly believe such statements of future action even from someone who is proven to not come through on previous predictions of their own future action.  Predictions, predictions, predictions.  You know what I've noticed about predictions?  The least likely to come true are usually peoples' predictions about their own future actions, ironically the one thing they have control over - they simply say stuff then never do it.

If you could, you would do AWEfest with AWES you are developing, so we are filling that gap as best we can,
daveS
Someone would indeed need a working AWE system to have an AWE-powered concert.  I guess I could break out the one from the 2009 High Altitude Wind Energy Conference that won the Popular Science Invention of the Year in 2008.  That is still out in the garage.
---------
* Joe and I are now in friendly contact with Dr Harrop.
Ha - "friendly" until he says something factual and you have a bad reaction to it.  He would have no idea what he is dealing with from a first friendly e-mail.  Try taking it to the level of a meaningful discussion and see how long he will put up with you.
Tell him your theory that your flapping stack is "the answer to AWE" and that it is an example of a Bose-Einstein Condensate, and that unlike the "toys" other experimenters play with, your nonexistent flap-stack "targets TeraWatts".  Ask him to include your Bose-Einstein flap-stack as the final answer in his report-for-sale.  See if he agrees that the evidence shows the future of wind energy is soft cloth working surfaces for generating power. 

How could you have time for a new hero when you already have the "Final Answer", anyway?  Geez seems like you're "burning daylight", doesn't it?  I mean if you are serious about pursuing AWE, and you were serious when you said you have discovered "the answer", then why are you wasting any time making more "predictions" on the internet, or e-mailing someone who is "trying to make sense of AWE"?  why not just show him your system?  Then he won't have to "try to make sense of AWE" anymore.  I hope you are making sure he knows about you "final TeraWatt answer".  Cuz that;s the most important thing, wouldn't you say?  Or does that change depending on whether you think the person is stupid enough to believe it?  I guess you think we are stupid but he is not.
Make sure you worship him as your new hero of the day.  Put him on a pedestal.  He can be like your new "Jesus", just "believing in" him will magically make all your past sins go away, right?

Let's just get back to the topic at hand: Who else, besides you, calls you an "AWE expert"?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22387 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: thoughts from walking inside a giant fabric turbine blade
Perhaps the coolest thing about the Wind Power Museum is freedom to wander around and  hands on almost any kind of wind turbine ever made. In one storage yard are giant modern HAWT parts. Last Monday, in that yard, I walked into the root of a giant fiberglass blade, hardly needing to bend over, it was so roomy. In truth, these blades are relatively thin fabric, more or less like heavy layered canvas, but the skin is carefully molded to a fine shape, and impregnated with resin to freeze-in the shape.  Composite resin roughly doubles the mass and results in a sort of eggshell structure that does not tolerate hard impacts.

Parafoils are fabric and can be made in fine shapes also, with thickened fabric sections, for industrial durability. Weightless air pressure replaces the weight of resin, and an inflated wing is resistant to impact damage. The logic follows that since both hard and soft wings are fabric, its the resin itself at issue. The aeronautical heuristic is to eliminate the resin mass if possible. Once again, in kites, we see the idea that the wing only needs to be stiff at working velocity, by ram-air pressure, otherwise let it be floppy. Similarly, AWE does not need LTA to stay up in calm; better to just use kite lift when the wind blows.

The related formal theoretic proof of superior power-to-mass of a fabric wing, by avoiding resin, is summarized as follows- that starting with two identical fabric wings, one is resin coated for rigidity, and the other is ported for ram-air and bridled. On a tower, the resinated wing will win, but in flight, the lighter ram-air wing wins. In the booming field of sport kites, there are no rigid resin-heavy wings, as a strong empirical data case.

We could have more diversity in tower blade construction, but the economics favor established production. So conventional HAWTS will continue to buy the blades made with paid-down tooling, but as scaling up continues, the opportunity opens to retool on a new basis. The modern soft-fabric skin blade engineers envision the scaling game cutting their way, including the scale limits transporting baldes on highways. Its even plausible that kite-like parafoils on tube spars may mark the ultimate scaling limit of the land HAWT.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22388 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
Wind Energy Crackpots and newbies often cite weather forecasting as the answer to overspeed protection, as you predictably also have.  That's always their answer.  They never seem to realize their best production comes in strong winds.  But the real topic today (it's not me who is "off-topic") was not weather forecasting, it was forecasting AWE technological success, which is now amply proven as being fraught with 99% nonsense.
Go ahead and keep forecasting, and I'll keep holding your feet to the fire asking what happened to your predictions.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22389 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
I do not need to read a paper that says you can get energy from flying across the wind.  I have always known it. 
I repeat my questions:
1) Can you point to ANYONE at ANY TIME, besides yourself, calling you "an AWE expert"?  Lets' see the link. 
2) What is the status of the GE fabric-covered-frame blade project you've been citing for years?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22390 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Doug: "After 10 years what have I said that has been proven wrong?"
[moving Doug's off-topics into their own threads]

Just one example of many memorable errors in basic aeronautics was Doug's insistence that it requires no power to sustain a given mass in aerodynamic flight. On the more trivial side, he tried to correct folks who spelled Loyd correctly, while bragging he did not need to read Loyd to understand him, which is wrong.

Dougs AWES Forum errors remain archived for future study. We can hire someone to list them at length, if Doug will pay fairly for the time required.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22391 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
We hold out that that Dr Harrop will advance RAD. Let Doug ridicule every new player and idea, if has nothing better to share, and it makes him happy.

Even my mother knows I am an AWE expert of sorts, if not Doug.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:56 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Doug,
Your hopeless opinion of others in AWE is overblown.
After 10 years what have I said that has been proven wrong?

Dr Harrop is actually doing a savant-level job trying to make sense of AWE.
He makes a living selling reports on whatever his latest interest is, for thousands of dollars - great.
In our case,
What is he going to tell us we haven't already heard?

His report continues to develop rapidly.*
Seemed like it was already finished and offered for sale as far as I saw...
Is he going to change it now to say the final answer is Bose-Einstein Condensate TeraWatt Flapping Stacks?

Many others are also worthy commentators.

Yes 10 years of  "worthy commentators".  It never seems to occur to most of them that "commenting" has not achieved much in these 10 years.  And after the passage of time, how many "comments" have turned out to be "worthy"?  After 10 years, claiming you are an "AWE expert" now you "laud" someone for "trying to make sense of" the topic which you claim to be an "expert".  Are you an "expert", or are YOU "trying to make sense" of AWE?  And you seldom answer any question put to you.  YOu avoid answering almost every actual question.  That is not a discussion, that is more like a game you are playing hoping nobody will notice,j ust ike you hope nobody will notice most of what you say never comes true.  I asked, specifically, if anyone besides YOU is calling YOU an "AWE expert".  Can you provide any references?  No, you just ignore the question and go on denigrating those who know what they are talking about.

You would be hard pressed to do better, even without a soured perspective of "futility".
OK, whatever you say...  I am the only one who has accurately and consistently predicted no working systems by all the combined "teams".  A decade later and still nothing operating?  Come on!  Whom do you think you're kidding at this point?

AWEfest is a scared duty in honor of Wubbo,
Yes "scared" is the right word - scared to have a concert with no AWE system to power it.  What makes someone schedule a concert to be powered by something they do not have?  Is that the mark of a rational mind?  I'm talking about YOU, not "Wubbo".
who came up with the idea of a popular festival powered by AWE.
I thought it was a concert.  With the band picked. 
And to me, if there is a "sacred duty" regarding "Wubbo" and AWE, it is TO BUILD A LADDERMILL INSTEAD OF HAVING THE EXCUSE THAT "IT WOULD BE TOO HARD"!!!!!  What a joke! 

Its simply not your personality to see the "newborn baby" in the various partial and fizzled rehearsals (Enerkite making AWE waffles; kPower, a few plaintive electric guitar noises, with only a few friends; AWE demos at kite fests, etc). The baby just has to grow.
Last I saw you had backtracked.  The "baby" had become "an embryo".  Soon it will be a sperm looking for an egg, then it will just be what it is now: nothing.  Yes, isn't this "the syndrome"?: Wannabe wind energy breakthrough person has their own words held up to them later, and their answer is that the problem must be the personality of the person reading that person's own words back to him.  Never an apology, just more accusations and insults.

Rest assured, the AWE community does not give up on any goal Wubbo set for us.
Desperately trying to come up with a way to leverage some "politically-correct" angle since "Wubbo" has passed away.  "Virtue-signalling" is the latest term for it.  Not working...

 For my part, I will try again soon.
Another AWE statement of future action.  That IS the problem with AWE.  It's ALL statements of future actions that never happen - that's pretty much all it is.  One thing never changes: people who do not understand wind energy will say anything about it, and will almost always be wrong.

It would be cool if Dr Harrop himself, with his IDTechEx event capability, helped AWEfest establish itself, so you may finally be contented.

It seems weird to me how easily you drop into inappropriate "hero-worship" of any new person who comes along with the slightest hint of "credentials".  It is also weird how you can cross up so many various topics to obfuscate a simple discussion.  I had said I thought, based on how previous predictions regarding AWE have turned out, that predictions in AWE are largely worthless.  You said they were NOT worthless.  So I pointed out YOUR previous predictions, such as that you were "having an AWE-powered concert", at a specific park in the Austin area, in a specific time-frame (a few years ago), with a specific band.  Rather than simply admit you got way ahead of yourself and went delusional over something you had no way to actually do, your answer is to make MORE similar predictions of the future.  Deny deny deny, instead of test test test?  Reminds me of Altaeros.  Your answer to their inaccurate prediction was their next prediction.  Well, they didn't power that village, but they have some NEW statements of future action, and apparently someone is gullible enough to endlessly believe such statements of future action even from someone who is proven to not come through on previous predictions of their own future action.  Predictions, predictions, predictions.  You know what I've noticed about predictions?  The least likely to come true are usually peoples' predictions about their own future actions, ironically the one thing they have control over - they simply say stuff then never do it.

If you could, you would do AWEfest with AWES you are developing, so we are filling that gap as best we can,
daveS
Someone would indeed need a working AWE system to have an AWE-powered concert.  I guess I could break out the one from the 2009 High Altitude Wind Energy Conference that won the Popular Science Invention of the Year in 2008.  That is still out in the garage.
---------
* Joe and I are now in friendly contact with Dr Harrop.
Ha - "friendly" until he says something factual and you have a bad reaction to it.  He would have no idea what he is dealing with from a first friendly e-mail.  Try taking it to the level of a meaningful discussion and see how long he will put up with you.
Tell him your theory that your flapping stack is "the answer to AWE" and that it is an example of a Bose-Einstein Condensate, and that unlike the "toys" other experimenters play with, your nonexistent flap-stack "targets TeraWatts".  Ask him to include your Bose-Einstein flap-stack as the final answer in his report-for-sale.  See if he agrees that the evidence shows the future of wind energy is soft cloth working surfaces for generating power. 

How could you have time for a new hero when you already have the "Final Answer", anyway?  Geez seems like you're "burning daylight", doesn't it?  I mean if you are serious about pursuing AWE, and you were serious when you said you have discovered "the answer", then why are you wasting any time making more "predictions" on the internet, or e-mailing someone who is "trying to make sense of AWE"?  why not just show him your system?  Then he won't have to "try to make sense of AWE" anymore.  I hope you are making sure he knows about you "final TeraWatt answer".  Cuz that;s the most important thing, wouldn't you say?  Or does that change depending on whether you think the person is stupid enough to believe it?  I guess you think we are stupid but he is not.
Make sure you worship him as your new hero of the day.  Put him on a pedestal.  He can be like your new "Jesus", just "believing in" him will magically make all your past sins go away, right?

Let's just get back to the topic at hand: Who else, besides you, calls you an "AWE expert"?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22392 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
In this case, weather forecasting is proposed in its aviation context, not the world of "Wind Energy Crackpots and newbies" that Doug is far more familiar with.

This is not a topic about "overspeed protection" at all, but about an engineering uncertainty factor and the due role of prediction in AWES operations.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:20 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Wind Energy Crackpots and newbies often cite weather forecasting as the answer to overspeed protection, as you predictably also have.  That's always their answer.  They never seem to realize their best production comes in strong winds.  But the real topic today (it's not me who is "off-topic") was not weather forecasting, it was forecasting AWE technological success, which is now amply proven as being fraught with 99% nonsense.
Go ahead and keep forecasting, and I'll keep holding your feet to the fire asking what happened to your predictions.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22393 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
"Doug,

The non-futility of weather forecasting is the topic here, not how AWE is developing too slow to satisfy you emotionally, as you consistently predict."
Amazing how you can never stay on the same pa ge for even a moment, always trying to find new ways to wriggle out of whatever the last thing you said was, with the typical crackpot response of blaming YOUR falses tatements on the alleged personality flaws you flag in peope who provide factual content.  You are the one who keeps talking about "RAD" the weird abbrevation you came up with for "RAPID airborne wind energy development"  RAPID DEVELOPMENT is what you keep saying over and over.  I told you it was meaningless and not happeneing anyway, and certainly YOU have no part of anything rapid except how fast you can make iinaccurate predictions of your own actions.

No, you don't get any aerospace credit for tha
t.
Well guess what?  Yes I do.  i'm the only one who has seen what isr eally  going on in AWE from day-one.
It amazes me how you constantly shift your theme, second-by-second, always grabbing for "points" to "win" the unwinnable arguments you thrive on.  If that fails, you have Joe as backup to redefine words or just kick people out who stand up to your weak attempt at tyranny.  It's so pitiful...

Its true that these days my reminder is the commoner case, of how you used to insistently predict "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine (R)", without any sense of "futility".
Just watch everything turn into SuperTurbine.  Makani used a figure-8.  I predicted they would start using a circle.  Now Cherubini adds an opposing blade.  Now they have "invented" the concept of a rotor.  Soon they will be stacked because of the angle and why stop at one rotor?  Now that previous efforts are not panning out, ALL of the latest designs are SuperTurbine variants or generally SuperTurbine in nature.

 If the ST does not prevail as you predicted, the widely-expected failures you also spotted may not count for much.

You are mixing two different topics.

Your best best bet is to come up with something new and compelling in AWE, to duly earn peer admiration. Doesn't wok.  I can, and have, brought a demo to run in front of your eyes for two days and the result was you tried to claim, years later, that it wasn't spinning a generator, even though the generator is clearly prominent in all the magazine pix and youtube videos.  There is no convincing a naysayer with his feet dug in to ignorance and fact-resistance.

Anyone who has not given up is still in play.
Well I have not given up.  I make my own wind turbines and Edison sends me checks instead of bills.  I'm sure I am the only AWE person getting paid by a utility for producing electricity on the grid.
By the way, I actually DO have a completely different, very incredible AWE design that will blow many minds if I reveal it, but I will not say more for now
.
At least occasional weather forecasting error in AWES operations is worth the general correctness of modern forecasts,
Sorry, but I genuinely cannot make any sense of that passage.  What is your point?

and just so, the losing AWES architectures are worth vetting in testing in favor of better designs.
Is this an excuse for not having anything that works?  Again, I do not understand what you are trying to say.

 
There really is less uncertainty how AWE will develop as time goes by,
daveS
Really?  Less uncertainty?  Care to flesh out that statement?  In what way is there less uncertainty now than there was ten years ago?  I mean, I flagged Magenn as a joke at the first glance, but aftera  few years all the "smart people" were finally able to see it?  Is that what you mean?  How many people bought reports for thousands of dollars saying Magenn was a serious contender in wind energy?

Two final questions:
1) Who calls you an expert besides you?
2) Whats' the status or outcome of the GE fabric blade project you keep citing?
I am not kidding.  We would all like answers.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22394 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
Who calls you "AWE experts" besides you?  (And since you want to drag Joe into it, I don't remember Joe ever calling himself an "AWE expert" -  he plays the role of the more reasonable one).
Just because someone sits with you or talks with you, or is polite or nice to you at a dinner or a conference, is not the same as calling you an expert.  And of course your own dad is going to be complementary.  I don;t think that counts as an answer.  In wind energy, the electric meter makes you an expert.  But since we are in the realm of "all talk, all the time" WHO ELSE CALLS YOU AN AWE EXPERT?

We've read you calling yourself an AWE expert maybe like at least hundreds of times by now.  Could it be a thousand times?  That's probably an exaggeration, but hundreds, yes I think that is accurate.  But who ELSE calls you an AWE expert?  Because I have never seen anyone but YOU say you are an AWE expert, which makes the claim suspicious.  But you just keep saying it over and over and over again. 

Most of the stuff you say makes no sense (my opinion) let alone showing any understanding of even basic wind energy, let alone an airborne version.  Like most newbies, your theme seems to be avoiding any and all facts regarding wind energy.  But now you've been a newbie for at least a decade.  That is not a good sign.  You could have a PhD in wind energy in that amount of time, with a couple of years to spare.  I don't think you will ever graduate to being a knowledgeable wind energy person of any kind at this rate, yet you keep talking about "RAD".  "Rapid"...  Rapid, unless "Doug" mentions no progress in a decade, THEN "rapid" becomes "Doug's" emotional problem because "Doug" is "too impatient".  Pick a lane Dave, Rapid or slow - which are you advocating at this moment?  Or do you have to think about it? 

One could sit here all day and take apart every single thing you write, whether it is your empty bragging and self flattery, constantly hammering home your self-awarded "credential" of being "an AWE expert", or denigrating anyone and everyone who puts forth an opinion or idea for an AWE solution, or in the worst case, a fact.  A very crazy situation in my opinion.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22395 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
A 2012 Internet net on the GE blade matter: 
=====================
In above article a link to GE press release did not function. 
Found in Internet archive, though for 2012, November 28:

=====================
One of many earlier posts on GE's matter: 
and the following discussion. The Msg17717 was in 2015, years after GE's press release.    There may be other threads covering blades involves high content of fabric. 
======================
As materials and related fabrics keep advancing, I predict that continued exploration will be made to involve fabric blades for AWES and other wind-energy machines. There are many different markets to face with various arrangements. 
======================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22396 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
Meanwhile, we reason over the world of clues we have, as a sort of virtual fly-off,
daveS
Ten years of you predicting an actual "flyoff", talking as though it is a certainty, the whole time I kept saying that there has never been a "flyoff" in wind energy, simply because unlike airplanes, wind turbine are installed in a location, not very mobile, and unless everyone becomes like me and shows up with truck-mounted prototype, it is not likely to have an actual flyoff.  I keep saying that, especially with video on the internet, there would be no need to have an actual flyoff, since we are immersed in an ongoing "virtual flyoff" all day, every day, so if you have something to show everyone, upload your video or your data.  Now you tal about thev irtual flyoff as though it is your idea, never giving me any credit such as "I guess Doug was right - we are in a constant virtual flyoff".  But your memory is not sharp enough to remember that "virtual flyoff" is what I've been saying ball along.  You can place that right next to your claims that my Sky Serpent didn't have a generator, whereas all photos and videos clearly show the generator , being a huge watermelon-sized main part. 
The prediction of an "AWE flyoff"...  The predicted (scheduled) "AWE-powered concert"... are we seeing a pattern here?  And you want to know why I say predictions in AWE are worthless?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22397 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Doug is too hasty to dismiss fabric covered blades,
The world dismissed fabric blades, not me, I simply reported one more fact to someone resistant to facts.  Don't blame me - it took a thousand years to move past cloth blades, and out of the millions of wind turbine operating right now, NONE has cloth blades.

nor is GE the only player.
How about following through on your previous assertions regarding the GE fabric blade project?  You just keep changing the subject.  Why would you advocate this project to bolster your arguments for years on end then show no interest in finding out what happened with the project?  Could it be that you suspect it came to nauhght?  It would not surprise me if they never made one at all,  What do you thin about that?

Earlier this week I was in Lubbock at the Wind Power Museum, and Founder/Director Coy Harris had just finished setting up his 50kw prototype turbine from the seventies, with fabric covered blades, newly recovered. It looked great.
Everything "looks great" in a museum display.  Please show us the turbine operating today with cloth blades.

Doug need not fear anyone will forget fabric-covered aerostructure, certainly not in general aviation, where its alive and well, nor on the Web, with archival search.
Yes you have pointed that out many times for several years now.
Everyone already knew this.
Show us the operating wind turbine with cloth blades, please.

 
Noting that its Pierre who has lately been citing "fabric-covered frame" as an AWES airframe basis. I have to agree with Pierre, that the method remains established in our design toolkit.
Show us the operating wind turbine with cloth blades, please.
Follow up on your multiple assertions that GE is developing cloth blades please.
 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22398 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)
"Children of the Wind" is public domain. The meetup is not even commercial. Doug is mistaken to think there is some trademark enforcement angle.
I never even implied there was a trademark "enforcement angle".  I simply mentioned he uses that name as a trademark and that is why he operates the domain "childrenofthewind.net", which in no way precludes others from using this well-known phrase, so congratulations on making one more in a series of false statements and false accusations.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22399 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Daidalos Capital's AWE investment team and strategy
Doug, you are not just "playing back"; rather you add statement that are not true. DaveS did not claim that he has the final answer for AWE in his theories; quite the contrary he keeps working parallel with the RAD movement to seek great solutions. Such core missing while carrying a nagging tone on one poster while missing the topic at hand is poor conduct.  DaveS is not a lone voice claiming to be an AWE expert. See those earlier discussions on such matter.  Consider exploring just how many varied experiments DaveS has done with a suggested aim to know about them and appreciate just what was done; a teasing start would be to study one of his first big shares in the 800 page tome posted at Drachen Foundation site; consider constructing a comprehensive timeline of his technical shared notes  about experiments. 
      Mischaracterizing and then building critique on the mischaracterizing just puts the missing more stark. Consider studying what fellow members share while sharing your own progressive steps.  

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22400 From: dougselsam Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Doug consistently overlooks that AWES are aircraft, that fabric covered wings are still in common use for aircraft, even in new designs.
That is an out-and-out lie.  I was the one who tod you that even towered turbines are considered a form of aircraft.  I hang around at airports and fly hang-gliders. 
Any idiot knows many airplanes have cloth covered wings. 

He also overlooks that there are hundreds of Dutch windmills with fabric covered blades,
Another lie.  I in fact cited the thousand years of cloth-covered frame-blades, which ended 150 years ago. 

still going strong, so his statement about no wind turbines using fabric blades is objectively wrong-
No, that's you trying to use words to obfuscate the truth,  Sure there are steam-powered cars too, but I'm talking about modern windmills, not restored antiques run as quaint demos.  Your theme is to play with words and technicalities of language to try to win arguments as a game, not having a real conversation where anyone could learn anything.

Doug wrote: " Of millions of wind turbines operating at this moment, none use cloth blades. "
You know very well what I meant.  Of course there are antique turbine occasionally operated.  That does not diminish my point. Those ancient windmills are obsolete and not contributing electricity to the grid, and you know that very well.

You have to love all kinds if wings, as a top expert.
Yeah there you go again Now it's a "top" expert.  Mmm-hmmm...
two questions:
1) Who calls you an expert besides you?
2) What happened with the GE cloth blade experiment you've been citing for several years now?


By the way, how does "RAD" fit in with still trying to have the same old "arguments" year after year after year?  Do you have amnesia?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22401 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Role of prediction-uncertainty in AWE- Weather Forecasting
Please copy your questions that do not relate to uncertainty in weather forecasting to their own topics, rather than sidetrack random topics to vent misc despair. Then your questions can be properly answered on-topic.

It is encouraging if you really have something new and creative to share, rather than lash out at the AWE world. You have claimed in the past to have secret solutions, while you ridicule those who disclose generously.

Please consider yourself a top AWE expert of sorts, if you need me to vouch for you like I do the rest of the AWE pros. They would still be top experts in my book, even if no one openly named them so. 

That's as much as I want to say off-topic, to meet you halfway.




On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:54 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"Doug,

The non-futility of weather forecasting is the topic here, not how AWE is developing too slow to satisfy you emotionally, as you consistently predict."
Amazing how you can never stay on the same pa ge for even a moment, always trying to find new ways to wriggle out of whatever the last thing you said was, with the typical crackpot response of blaming YOUR falses tatements on the alleged personality flaws you flag in peope who provide factual content.  You are the one who keeps talking about "RAD" the weird abbrevation you came up with for "RAPID airborne wind energy development"  RAPID DEVELOPMENT is what you keep saying over and over.  I told you it was meaningless and not happeneing anyway, and certainly YOU have no part of anything rapid except how fast you can make iinaccurate predictions of your own actions.

No, you don't get any aerospace credit for tha
t.
Well guess what?  Yes I do.  i'm the only one who has seen what isr eally  going on in AWE from day-one.
It amazes me how you constantly shift your theme, second-by-second, always grabbing for "points" to "win" the unwinnable arguments you thrive on.  If that fails, you have Joe as backup to redefine words or just kick people out who stand up to your weak attempt at tyranny.  It's so pitiful...

Its true that these days my reminder is the commoner case, of how you used to insistently predict "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine (R)", without any sense of "futility".
Just watch everything turn into SuperTurbine.  Makani used a figure-8.  I predicted they would start using a circle.  Now Cherubini adds an opposing blade.  Now they have "invented" the concept of a rotor.  Soon they will be stacked because of the angle and why stop at one rotor?  Now that previous efforts are not panning out, ALL of the latest designs are SuperTurbine variants or generally SuperTurbine in nature.

 If the ST does not prevail as you predicted, the widely-expected failures you also spotted may not count for much.

You are mixing two different topics.

Your best best bet is to come up with something new and compelling in AWE, to duly earn peer admiration. Doesn't wok.  I can, and have, brought a demo to run in front of your eyes for two days and the result was you tried to claim, years later, that it wasn't spinning a generator, even though the generator is clearly prominent in all the magazine pix and youtube videos.  There is no convincing a naysayer with his feet dug in to ignorance and fact-resistance.

Anyone who has not given up is still in play.
Well I have not given up.  I make my own wind turbines and Edison sends me checks instead of bills.  I'm sure I am the only AWE person getting paid by a utility for producing electricity on the grid.
By the way, I actually DO have a completely different, very incredible AWE design that will blow many minds if I reveal it, but I will not say more for now
.
At least occasional weather forecasting error in AWES operations is worth the general correctness of modern forecasts,
Sorry, but I genuinely cannot make any sense of that passage.  What is your point?

and just so, the losing AWES architectures are worth vetting in testing in favor of better designs.
Is this an excuse for not having anything that works?  Again, I do not understand what you are trying to say.

 
There really is less uncertainty how AWE will develop as time goes by,
daveS
Really?  Less uncertainty?  Care to flesh out that statement?  In what way is there less uncertainty now than there was ten years ago?  I mean, I flagged Magenn as a joke at the first glance, but aftera  few years all the "smart people" were finally able to see it?  Is that what you mean?  How many people bought reports for thousands of dollars saying Magenn was a serious contender in wind energy?

Two final questions:
1) Who calls you an expert besides you?
2) Whats' the status or outcome of the GE fabric blade project you keep citing?
I am not kidding.  We would all like answers.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22402 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
Since I first met DaveS, I extended "expert" over him to anyone I talked to or wrote to when I had a chance.  My first discourses with him on kite controls after he contacted me from my wikipedia posting efforts on kite controls gave me enough evidence to put him as expert; in my view he jumped into my Rogallo and Jalbert basket. About 10 years ago. His expert status for me grew nearly daily. And I witnessed Dave Culp's acceptance of DaveS into expert circle for AWE.  But all such is not needed when energy of relating is focused on RAD sharing where the technology is explored.    
====================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22403 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Latest opinions of Dr. Peter Harrop
JoeF is an expert's expert in AWE, make no mistake.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:14 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Who calls you "AWE experts" besides you?  (And since you want to drag Joe into it, I don't remember Joe ever calling himself an "AWE expert" -  he plays the role of the more reasonable one).
Just because someone sits with you or talks with you, or is polite or nice to you at a dinner or a conference, is not the same as calling you an expert.  And of course your own dad is going to be complementary.  I don;t think that counts as an answer.  In wind energy, the electric meter makes you an expert.  But since we are in the realm of "all talk, all the time" WHO ELSE CALLS YOU AN AWE EXPERT?

We've read you calling yourself an AWE expert maybe like at least hundreds of times by now.  Could it be a thousand times?  That's probably an exaggeration, but hundreds, yes I think that is accurate.  But who ELSE calls you an AWE expert?  Because I have never seen anyone but YOU say you are an AWE expert, which makes the claim suspicious.  But you just keep saying it over and over and over again. 

Most of the stuff you say makes no sense (my opinion) let alone showing any understanding of even basic wind energy, let alone an airborne version.  Like most newbies, your theme seems to be avoiding any and all facts regarding wind energy.  But now you've been a newbie for at least a decade.  That is not a good sign.  You could have a PhD in wind energy in that amount of time, with a couple of years to spare.  I don't think you will ever graduate to being a knowledgeable wind energy person of any kind at this rate, yet you keep talking about "RAD".  "Rapid"...  Rapid, unless "Doug" mentions no progress in a decade, THEN "rapid" becomes "Doug's" emotional problem because "Doug" is "too impatient".  Pick a lane Dave, Rapid or slow - which are you advocating at this moment?  Or do you have to think about it? 

One could sit here all day and take apart every single thing you write, whether it is your empty bragging and self flattery, constantly hammering home your self-awarded "credential" of being "an AWE expert", or denigrating anyone and everyone who puts forth an opinion or idea for an AWE solution, or in the worst case, a fact.  A very crazy situation in my opinion.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22404 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Austin Wind Meetup (template- start your own local club)
No, you were clearly crapping on the actual topic with a digression.

Mike Sanchez is worthy of better notice in a proper context.


On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:40 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
"Children of the Wind" is public domain. The meetup is not even commercial. Doug is mistaken to think there is some trademark enforcement angle.
I never even implied there was a trademark "enforcement angle".  I simply mentioned he uses that name as a trademark and that is why he operates the domain "childrenofthewind.net", which in no way precludes others from using this well-known phrase, so congratulations on making one more in a series of false statements and false accusations.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22405 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2017
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
kPower 4m dia cloth turbine flying with ~500W geared flygen-





On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:05 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Doug consistently overlooks that AWES are aircraft, that fabric covered wings are still in common use for aircraft, even in new designs.
That is an out-and-out lie.  I was the one who tod you that even towered turbines are considered a form of aircraft.  I hang around at airports and fly hang-gliders. 
Any idiot knows many airplanes have cloth covered wings. 

He also overlooks that there are hundreds of Dutch windmills with fabric covered blades,
Another lie.  I in fact cited the thousand years of cloth-covered frame-blades, which ended 150 years ago. 

still going strong, so his statement about no wind turbines using fabric blades is objectively wrong-
No, that's you trying to use words to obfuscate the truth,  Sure there are steam-powered cars too, but I'm talking about modern windmills, not restored antiques run as quaint demos.  Your theme is to play with words and technicalities of language to try to win arguments as a game, not having a real conversation where anyone could learn anything.

Doug wrote: " Of millions of wind turbines operating at this moment, none use cloth blades. "
You know very well what I meant.  Of course there are antique turbine occasionally operated.  That does not diminish my point. Those ancient windmills are obsolete and not contributing electricity to the grid, and you know that very well.

You have to love all kinds if wings, as a top expert.
Yeah there you go again Now it's a "top" expert.  Mmm-hmmm...
two questions:
1) Who calls you an expert besides you?
2) What happened with the GE cloth blade experiment you've been citing for several years now?


By the way, how does "RAD" fit in with still trying to have the same old "arguments" year after year after year?  Do you have amnesia?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22407 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Jalbert revisited today

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/messages/2296

During this two-day potential breathing space, the above is offered for refreshment. 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22408 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Re: Jalbert revisited today
In the spirit of Jalbert's vision of AWE, there is one concept emerging from the fog, "so simple you will not comprehend why nobody hadn't seen it sooner".

Simply take Jalbert's parafoil and scale it up, "short-lined", to fly a pattern that fits the FAA designated airspace under 2000ft. That's a GW scale unit that in principle could convert conventional power-plants to kite-hybrids (esp hydro and gas-turbine). Short-lined, in non-dimensional proportions, a power kite will oscillate back and forth crosswind spontaneously.

There is no physical scaling law preventing this concept, just a megascale engineering challenge based on proven elements.

----------- copied text from link provided -------

Thanks to Roy Mueller for recording these last words of the great Jalbert on his deathbed in '91. After a long career in aviation, the giant inventive-leap of the parafoil finally came to Jalbert when he was 60. Jalbert related "things came very slowly, because in the 1900' s, we are just waking to the secrets of the wind and how to use it. The sun has not yet risen… but for you (who follow) things will be different. You will be living in a time when things happen rapidly."
 
"When you find the answer, it will be so simple you will not comprehend why nobody hadn't seen it sooner. Maybe we had the answer before and lost it. If we can just understand the wind better, and what is truly possible, tapping into the full potential of the wind, we could convert every type of hydro-carbon fuel, petroleum, coal & nuclear... to a clean and renewable nonpolluting source of Energy."
 



On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:01 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
During this two-day potential breathing space, the above is offered for refreshment. 



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22409 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Raghu Das, IDTechEx AWE Report Co-Author
Physics degree from Cambridge, Raghu is one sharp cookie, no doubt. Great new names and faces continue to stream into AWE; the more the merrier.



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22410 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Webinar scheduled by Dr. Peter Harrop

Webinar Tuesday 11 April 2017 - Airborne Wind Energy 

Webinar Title: Airborne Wind Energy: Electricity from Kites and Drones Comes to Market 

Date: Tuesday 11 April 2017 

Presenter: Dr Peter Harrop, Chairman, IDTechEx
Read more at: http://www.energyharvestingjournal.com/articles/10814/webinar-tuesday-11-april-2017-airborne-wind-energy

=======================================

This topic thread could be a place to discuss what occurred in the webinar. 


See the world-clock times on the news-release page.

There will be two sessions on that day. 

Verify your time zone for the webinar when registering and participating. 


=====================================


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22411 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Patent on cord material by Garrett Storm Dunker of Houston, Texas

Cord material and methods of using same  


Page bookmarkUS9447529 (B2)  -  Cord material and methods of using same
Inventor(s):DUNKER GARRETT STORM [US] +
Applicant(s):DUNKER GARRETT STORM [US]; A-Z CHUTEWORKS L L C [US] +
Classification:
- international:D04C1/12D07B5/00D07B1/02D07B1/18
- cooperative:
Application number:US201314090025 20131126       Global Dossier
Priority number(s):US201314090025 20131126
Also published as:
This topic thread could discuss things he mentions in the disclosure. 
===================================================
Garrett “Storm” Dunker

See other posts that mention Storm Dunker



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22412 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Storm Dunker
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22413 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Static electricity in AWES +-+-+-+-+-+-+---------++++++
Static electricity in AWES  +-+-+-+-+-+-+---------++++++
==========================================
Challenges and opportunities
Incidents
Neutralizing
Grounding
Controllers
Safety
Sensing
Reporting
Atmospheric charges
Reeling charges
Lines and the wind
Wings and the wind
Wing parts and attachments
Generator environment
Anchoring
Changes
Sparks and damage potential
Kite system harvesting of static electricity to do good works
Knowing one's AWES' static electricity profile

If static profiles are not known well, monitored, and respected, then static events might injure control units, injure parts, ground through people, or otherwise affect missions. 

Studies?  
Reports?
Incidents?

​Opportunities for performing good works via AWES that focus on generating static electricity?   Studies are invited on this realm of opportunity. ​  Large-return link: http://tinyurl.com/TriboelectricGenerator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22414 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Re: Patent on cord material by Garrett Storm Dunker of Houston, Texa
Great to see StormD working on reducing line drag, especially strum, which compounds drag. Here we see a specific braid topology that is double-acting against line-strum at velocity. The "deviant strand" bumps should act as turbulators to promote stability, and the wavy structure is supposed to damp strum vibration as well. Compare with SaulG and Pete Lynn (jr) line fairing patent, addressing the same issue.

This is clearly a metamaterial case; in fact we can identify all twisted, braided, and woven lines (and kite arrays) generally as emergent metamaterials, given our growing familarity of the new engineering paradigm.* The following predictions apply- There will be rather precise optimal "tunings" of the strands, according to loading and flow-velocity. These tunings cannot easily be guessed at, but would have to emerge from empirical testing and numeric prediction. Dynamic tunability is desirable, but an open issue (variable loading is an strong input channel). The wrong tuning might be worse than no deviant-strand at all.

In review- while smooth line in principle and practice has specific high performance roles, we have long been aware that line texture in many forms can add or reduce line drag, and that line spring-mass harmonics are important factors. Lines only continue to improve rapidly, and graphene will be a new revolution. Storm is at the frontier of better kite lines.

------------
* including QFT analogues


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 1:34 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

Cord material and methods of using same  


Page bookmarkUS9447529 (B2)  -  Cord material and methods of using same
Inventor(s):DUNKER GARRETT STORM [US] +
Applicant(s):DUNKER GARRETT STORM [US]; A-Z CHUTEWORKS L L C [US] +
Classification:
- international:D04C1/12D07B5/00D07B1/02D07B1/18
- cooperative:
Application number:US201314090025 20131126       Global Dossier
Priority number(s):US201314090025 20131126
Also published as:
This topic thread could discuss things he mentions in the disclosure. 
===================================================
Garrett “Storm” Dunker

See other posts that mention Storm Dunker





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22415 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2017
Subject: Push-Flare Cargo-Parafoil Landing Method
Reviewing Storm's parafoil cargo-chute work, the idea came to mind that a flared landing could be done without high actuation force. The method is similar to a kite push-turn, where the turn input is to slack one side, rather than pull the other side. Its quite effective.

A push-flare landing would be done by dirt-cheap dead-simple belay hardware releasing some tension in the A or A-B lines, which would in effect tension the brakes, the D or C-D lines, no powered actuation required for a one-shot soft landing.

Fore and aft lines can also be run in a pulley-loop, with only moderate actuation force needed, as a common method.

Open-AWE_IP-Cloud
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22416 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/30/2017
Subject: Parachute-type sail for boats
Parachute-type sail for boats
Publication numberUS5642683 A
Publication typeGrant
Application numberUS 08/635,413
Publication dateJul 1, 1997
Filing dateApr 26, 1996
Priority dateApr 26, 1996
Fee statusLapsed
Also published asWO1997041028A1
InventorsNorman Bedford
Original AssigneeBedford; Norman
Export CitationBiBTeXEndNoteRefMan
External Links: USPTOUSPTO AssignmentEspacenet
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 22417 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/30/2017
Subject: Re: Kiting Asteroids

Asteroid orbital transfer method  


Page bookmarkCN103863584 (B)  -  Asteroid orbital transfer method
Inventor(s):GAO YOUTAO, ; WU JINGYUN
Applicant(s):NANJING UNIVERSITY OF AERONAUTICS AND ASTRONAUTICS
Classification:
- international:B64G4/00
- cooperative:

Application number:CN20141116933 20140326       Global Dossier
Priority number(s):CN20141116933 20140326
Also published as: