Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 20538 to 20589 Page 304 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20538 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20539 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20540 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20541 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Huge Blades

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20542 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20544 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20545 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Huge Blades

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20546 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20547 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Bird Windmill, thin skin, streamlined I-blade

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20548 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20549 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: The search for a high flying clean energy generator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20550 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20551 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20552 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20553 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20554 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20555 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20556 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: WhirlWing Windmill

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20557 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Bird Windmill model simulated pumping using weights

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20558 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: The search for a high flying clean energy generator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20559 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as a to

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20561 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20562 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20563 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20564 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Long Island Utility adopts kites during peak electrical demand

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20565 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20566 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
Subject: Re: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20567 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20568 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20569 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20570 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20571 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Peter A. Sharp. Sharp Cyclo-Kite and TCAT

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20572 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20573 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20574 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Kite Trope in Pop Culture: Thomas and the Kite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20575 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/30/2016
Subject: Re: Peter A. Sharp. Sharp Cyclo-Kite and TCAT

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20576 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Magnetic Suspension Bearings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20577 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Re: Magnetic Suspension Bearings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20578 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20579 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Fwd: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20580 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20581 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: Re: Fwd: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20582 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: e-kite reveals its double-boom quad-rotor kiteplane concept

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20583 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
Subject: KiteMill's IP Advisors (plus ~50m2 LEI wing pictures)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20584 From: mmarchitti Date: 9/1/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20585 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2016
Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20587 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2016
Subject: Re: ISEC

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20589 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2016
Subject: Re: ISEC




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20538 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp
In these references we see Peter Sharp as a technical contributor to HPV and AYRS circles. With his DF publishing to-boot, its odd luck how we overlooked him, but now that we found him, he fits right into place as an AWE person coming from elite DIY kite and sailing worlds.


On Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:25 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
The Bodysail: improved bicycle sailing by Peter A. Sharp
The article is within 

===========================================
17 Turboships
22 Sharp Rotor Kite
Both articles by Peter A Sharp

In "Turboships"  Peter present his concept of  "Stretch kites" for producing useful energy.



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20539 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20540 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage
August 2016
Thirty-nine is the cardinal number of the set of team members:

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20541 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Huge Blades

When AWES use blades, consider reflections at Sandia


Sandia Labs News Releases


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20542 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
Attachments :

    Hi Joe,

    Beautiful and very important TED talk. Much thanks.

    Peter

     

    From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
    Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:09 PM
    To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

     

     

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2016
    Subject: Re: Minesto news
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20544 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
    Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp
    Attachments :

      Hi Dave Santos,

      Wow! I’m impressed that you found those articles. I was going to mention “stretch kites” because I think that they might have some value to the power kite community.

      Thank you for being so welcoming.

      Best Regards,

      Peter A. Sharp

       

      From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
      Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:42 PM
      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

       

       

      In these references we see Peter Sharp as a technical contributor to HPV and AYRS circles. With his DF publishing to-boot, its odd luck how we overlooked him, but now that we found him, he fits right into place as an AWE person coming from elite DIY kite and sailing worlds.

       

      On Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:25 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20545 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
      Subject: Re: Huge Blades
      Attachments :

        Hi Joe,

        In my opinion, Sandia and the companies partnering with them are heading in the wrong direction by going for super big, single wind turbines, either HAWT or VAWT. I explain why in my paper “How VAWTs Could Replace HAWT”.

        http://www.windpowerengineering.com/featured/business-news-projects/vawts-replace-hawts/

        Actually, my own title was more confident: “VAWT Will Replace HAWT”, but the editor lacked the courage of my convictions. ; )

        Sandia wants to build a 50 MW VAWT. I show how to more cheaply build a 100 MW VAWT.

        Best Regards,

        Peter Sharp

         

        From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:02 PM
        To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AWES] Huge Blades

         

         

        When AWES use blades, consider reflections at Sandia

         

        Sandia Labs News Releases

         

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20546 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
        Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other

        Hi Joe,

        The pictures weren’t included inside of the little rectangles. Don’t know what’s wrong. Jpg should work just fine. Couldn’t get to them in some other way. Thanks anyway.

        Peter Sharp

         

        From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:12 PM
        To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

         

         

        Hi Joe,

        Beautiful and very important TED talk. Much thanks.

        Peter

         

        From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:09 PM
        To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

         

         

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20547 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
        Subject: Re: Bird Windmill, thin skin, streamlined I-blade
        Attachments :

          Hi Joe,

          Yes, the “S” instead of an “A” for my middle initial is a typo by Drachen. That 12” blade can be made from a plastic 2-liter soda bottle and its very sturdy.

           

          Yes, the Sharp Cyclo-Kite can fly upwind of its anchor points during part of its orbit only when mounted on two towers as shown, and not when the whole orbit is mounted downwind of the anchor points.

          The “Looping Foil” pumping action is wonderful! Brilliant!

           

          I started my experiments a long time ago with “flutter foils”. See the third model in this demonstration. Note that the bell cranks were made very heavy instead of very light, so they are using up almost all of the power from the flutter foils. Note that additional foils could be linked together and synchronized to increase the power. Unfortunately, the blades are not mounted correctly, and they are not tuned correctly, but it works a bit anyway. The way it works is that the blades control each other so that they are synchronized, and always 90 degrees out of phase with each other. That produces two pulling cycles per blade cycle. In the video, he is producing only random oscillations, which is less powerful. One of his blades is falling apart, which doesn’t help.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrp0RC3XTpw&feature=related   Fluttermill video

           

          http://www.creative-science.org.uk/sharp_flutter.html  Fluttermill photos and discussion by Dr. Hare.

           

          I see that large, kite-like flutter foils suspended from kites are being used to create a pumping motion. Outstanding work!

          The Bird Windmill was derived from the Flutterfoil, and the Sharp Cycloturbine was derived from the Bird Windmill.

          Best Regards,

          Peter A. Sharp

           

          From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:23 PM
          To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: Bird Windmill, thin skin, streamlined I-blade

           

           

          The profile of Peter Sharp evident from the start is of a cleverly inventive self-sufficient wind-device developer who is conquering the mountain-sized AWE challenge by methodical baby-steps. His prototyping style is focused on key working principles without regard for conventional esthetics. That he had already made the Drachen Foundation's radar is further evidence of Sharp's specialized merit from the kite expert perspective. Even most "top" AWE R&D teams lack these fundamental virtues.

           

          UMaine (LeBreque (Sp?)) and KiteLab Group (JoeF, me, etc.) have also independently worked the design space of pumping looping wings. As a group, we have explored configurations in all three possible axial orientations. At a minimum, two of the orientations match popular AWES cycles with upwind/downwind phases*, with special potential advantages, like DSing in a strong wind gradient, or theoretic pairings in turbine fields after [Dabiri et al]. The third axial orientation, along the wind axis, known as the "Looping-Foil", has fully crosswind motion. Besides simple cheap light powerful passive loopers, there are tacker wings that self-tack across the wind like sailboats. 

           

          The next big design challenge is to cross-link these designs in airborne lattices that pump coherently, showing the way to scale up from single units to vast arrays of many units. Sharp's claim that this is the first kite to inherently travel upwin! d of its anchor is tricky. For example, Cyclo-Kite/Bird-Windmill operation presupposes an added lift basis. If added lift is from terrain or towers, his claim works, but if the lift comes from lifter-kites, then the anchor-points would likely be upwind of a practical wing orbit.

           

          ------

          * Once again, a core operational AWES topology is shared by varied geometries.

           

          On Saturday, August 27, 2016 7:48 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20548 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/28/2016
          Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
          Those three small rectangles are a mystery. 
          Only some methods work, not all. The Yahoo! program does not seem to allow direct-message posting of an image from one's computer. However, the forum has a "Photos" section; when online and signed in, one may upload a photo file to the Photo section, which explore. In Photos, configure an Album under your last name, if you wish; then use the "Add photo" tool to place a photo in the folder.  The that photo gets an URL. 
          In my sample, I used the online message editor to highlight the text "SampleHere" and used the linking icon tool and pasted the URL that the reaches the newly added photo.   Then when a reader clicks the text link, the photo will be served. 
                Differently, if a photo is served on the internet, then the URL of that photo may be pasted into a message when rich editing is on; the <<    is a toggle for rich editing or its stoppage.   Or, some browsers will permit us to copy an image on the Internet and paste the photo in the message body. 
                Also, sending to me the photos; under my identity I can get the photos served; some I'll put in EnergyKiteSystems in your folder; then an URL for those photos could be handy. 
                ... Don't want to miss your intended shares, Peter!
          Best, 
             JoeF

          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20549 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/28/2016
          Subject: Re: The search for a high flying clean energy generator
          Attachments :

            Hi Joe,

            Thanks very much for the great video of the Magnus Effect cylinder balloon kite for producing a pumping motion.

            I can explain how to possibly improve that concept.

            I invented a 3-sided, self-spinning rotor called a Sharp Rotor. It requires no motor or windmill to spin it. Each of the three sides is shaped like the top surface of a very thick wing, with a great deal of camber at the leading edge, and reverse camber at the trailing edge. It uses two end discs to increase the lift coefficient. Basically, it is a 3 sided version of a flip-kite (rotor kite; Donaldson rotor, etc.) It creates high lift at a spin ratio of 1. (A spinning cylinder creates little lift at a spin ratio of 1.) If spun faster using external power, it will increase its lift like a Flettner Rotor (spinning cylinder with end discs). In free flight, it flies twice as far as it falls, so it has a lift to drag ratio of 2 to 1 in small sizes. In larger sizes, the L/D may improve. I have made and flown a lot of paper models and the lift is impressive; it may be higher than I’m guessing (Cl = 2). I have a whip-stick model that demonstrates that high lift, and when I can walk easily again, I’ll make a video of it.

            At a spin ratio of 1, the lift of a Sharp Rotor is due to the Katzmyer Effect rather than to the Magnus Effect. When a wing is increasing its angle of attack, the stall angle increases. For the Sharp Rotor, the stall angle of the top surface is always increasing, so the rotor doesn’t experience any stall. Most two-sided rotors experience a momentary stall during part of their rotation, and a loss of lift. That’s why they vibrate so strongly when tethered.

             

             

            My paper models can be thrown upward underhand, and they do a forward loop and come back to me so that I can catch them. The diameter of the loop is bigger than for a two-sided rotor, and that seems to be due to the difference in weight. (I patented a 2-sided rotor with dihedral to give it some increased stability in free-flight. It was much thicker at the ends than in the middle, so from the front it had an hour-glass shape. It demonstrates the much greater lift due to the top of the wing than the bottom of the wing. A similar model with the opposite dihedral (thick in the middle) is completely unstable. (Yet somebody patented it as a flying toy, apparently without ever testing it.)

            When pre-spun using a rubber-band launch, the distance a Sharp Rotor can fly is just a bit farther than a Flettner Rotor launched the same way. They both initially do a fast, tight back loop before beginning to glide forward. My paper models are about 11” wide, with end discs made of paper.

             

            A Sharp Rotor could be used as shown in the case of the motorized tube balloon – to create an oscillating pulling force. The lift of the Sharp Rotor can be eliminated by braking it to stop its rotation. It produces very low torque, so it is easy to brake. Because it does not require anything else to rotate it, it can be cheaper, safer, and more reliable than a motorized tube balloon.

            However, there are other ways to use Sharp Rotors as kites that should be much more efficient. It’s main advantage is that it can create very high lift while also providing high buoyancy if filled with a tube bag or multiple, round, balloons, filled with helium. If the end discs rotate independently of the body of the rotor, the rotor can take off from the ground, and land on the ground (or the surface of a body of water if the end discs provide enough flotation). That means that, on water, it need not be lighter than air, because it can orient to the wind and launch and land itself.

            Another advantage is that it does not vibrate when rotating -- like two-sided rotors. So, for example, it can be used as the blades of a buoyant horizontal axis windmill (no need for a supporting kite). In order to generate electricity, small HAWT could be mounted out beyond the outer tips of the blades. Those HAWT would function as an “aerodynamic transmission”, as they do on the Makani Power Kite. When forced through the air, they would produce a great many times as much energy as they would if they were stationary. And due to their very high rpm, they could be small and light.

             

            A simpler and cheaper approach to using Sharp Rotors as the blades of a buoyant horizontal axis windmill would be to cause the windmill to twist the cords of a twist-cord-accumulator/transmission, or TCAT. The twist cords would double as the tether. When the torque of the twist cords became high enough to overcome the resistance of the magnetic release catch on the generator shaft, on the ground, the generator would briefly spin at a high rpm. The rpm of the generator would be the same regardless of the wind speed. It would just spin more often in higher wind speeds. A TCAT is not efficient, but it is dirt cheap, and the bottom line is the cost of the energy. In high winds, the rotor blades could be allowed to tip away from the wind to lose power and lower the total rotor drag. So the windmill could remain aloft during high winds.

            Sharp Rotors might work well to create a practical version of something closely similar to the original ladder-mill concept. Sharp Rotors would be mounted on a loop, like the stairs of a ladder. Small, horizontal tail vanes could be mounted at both ends of each rotor. When the rotor was rising, the tail vane lever would move downward and release a brake so as to let the rotor spin freely. Once the rotor passed the top of the tall ladder-mill loop, and started to be pulled downward, the tail-vane lever would move upward and apply a brake to stop the rotor from rotating, thus eliminating its lift. The rotors would all be slightly more than neutrally buoyant. I’m not yet sure how to provide safe overspeed control, but I have some ideas.

            The rotor’s blade skin could be fabric stretched over a frame made of bent wood, fiberglass, or carbon fiber. Inflating the internal balloon would be used to provide rigidity.

            The smooth curves of the rotor surfaces could probably be replaced with straight sections, thus further reducing the cost and further simplifying construction.

             

            A Sharp Rotor toy (maybe 3 or 4 feet wide) filled with helium would be great fun because it could glide extremely slowly, and it could glide on the updraft from a single hand moving along beneath it. Blowing on it from behind would cause it to sink quickly. On a windless and sunny day, it could probably glide along in level flight from the air rising off of an asphalt street. It would look like a very strange drone flying down the street, with no apparent means of propulsion.

             

            Here is an interesting physics factoid. If a DWFTTW land yacht uses a propeller that has Sharp Rotors for blades, the horizontal axis rotor will function as a windmill initially to spin the wheels and accelerate the land yacht from a standing start just like a normal windmill vehicle sailing directly downwind. Then at a downwind speed of roughly 0.6 times the speed of the wind, the wheels will begin to spin the horizontal axis rotor. So the horizontal axis rotor will function as both a windmill and a propeller simultaneously. The Sharp Rotor blades need not make any pitch changes because they are always at their optimum “pitch angle”. As the land yacht exceeds the speed of the wind (if it can do so given the high drag of the Sharp Rotor blades), the horizontal axis rotor functions as a pure propeller. Everything would be automatic because no changes would be needed to the “pitch” of the Sharp Rotor blades.

             

            Best Regards,

            Peter A. Sharp

             

             

             

             

            From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
            Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:33 PM
            To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [AWES] The search for a high flying clean energy generator

             

             

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20550 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
            Subject: Re: Minesto news
            Minesto is expected to operate at a loss for a few more years, as is normal for a long-term tech venture with initial high R&D costs and slow revenue growth as the technology painstakingly scales up. With SAAB as its parent company, its expected Minesto will stay the course, but there is considerable potential for competition, with WPI already a strong early conceptual and experimental contender in underwater power kites.






            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20551 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
            Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp
            Thank you PeterS, for joining us. 

            As usual, it was JoeF's unmatched diligence that found all your references. Note your tag here as "PeterS" to distinguish from other kite-gods like Peter Lynn ("PeterL"), Peter Payne ("PeterP"), and so on. 

            Hoping we can all make something big happen next, with so much talent and experience gathering :)

            Yours,

            daveS






            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20552 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
            Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
            Attachments :

              Hi Joe,

              Much thanks for your directions about posting photos. I struggle with computers, so I’ll do the best I can. Much thanks for your kind words.

              Peter Sharp

               

              From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
              Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 5:50 PM
              To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

               

               

              Those three small rectangles are a mystery. 

              Only some methods work, not all. The Yahoo! program does not seem to allow direct-message posting of an image from one's computer. However, the forum has a "Photos" section; when online and signed in, one may upload a photo file to the Photo section, which explore. In Photos, configure an Album under your last name, if you wish; then use the "Add photo" tool to place a photo in the folder.  The that photo gets an URL. 

              In my sample, I used the online message editor to highlight the text "SampleHere" and used the linking icon tool and pasted the URL that the reaches the newly added photo.   Then when a reader clicks the text link, the photo will be served. 

                    Differently, if a photo is served on the internet, then the URL of that photo may be pasted into a message when rich editing is on; the <<    is a toggle for rich editing or its stoppage.   Or, some browsers will permit us to copy an image on the Internet and paste the photo in the message body. 

                    Also, sending to me the photos; under my identity I can get the photos served; some I'll put in EnergyKiteSystems in your folder; then an URL for those photos could be handy. 

                    ... Don't want to miss your intended shares, Peter!

              Best, 

                 JoeF

               

              On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:22 PM, 'Peter A. Sharp' sharpencil@sbcglobal.net [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

              Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20553 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
              Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
              Attachments :

                Hi Joe,

                When I clicked your “Sample Here”, Yahoo required me to sign in. But I can’t sign in because they insist that my Email is my wife’s, and they don’t let me change it, and I don’t use her passwords. Sorry for the confusion. So my option seems to be to just send you my responses and let you use whatever you wish, although that places an unnecessary burden on you. Sigh….

                Peter Sharp

                 

                From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
                Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 5:50 PM
                To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

                 

                 

                Those three small rectangles are a mystery. 

                Only some methods work, not all. The Yahoo! program does not seem to allow direct-message posting of an image from one's computer. However, the forum has a "Photos" section; when online and signed in, one may upload a photo file to the Photo section, which explore. In Photos, configure an Album under your last name, if you wish; then use the "Add photo" tool to place a photo in the folder.  The that photo gets an URL. 

                In my sample, I used the online message editor to highlight the text "SampleHere" and used the linking icon tool and pasted the URL that the reaches the newly added photo.   Then when a reader clicks the text link, the photo will be served. 

                      Differently, if a photo is served on the internet, then the URL of that photo may be pasted into a message when rich editing is on; the <<    is a toggle for rich editing or its stoppage.   Or, some browsers will permit us to copy an image on the Internet and paste the photo in the message body. 

                      Also, sending to me the photos; under my identity I can get the photos served; some I'll put in EnergyKiteSystems in your folder; then an URL for those photos could be handy. 

                      ... Don't want to miss your intended shares, Peter!

                Best, 

                   JoeF

                 

                On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:22 PM, 'Peter A. Sharp' sharpencil@sbcglobal.net [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

                Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20554 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
                Subject: Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp
                Attachments :

                  Hi Joe,

                  Much Thanks,

                  PeterS

                   

                  From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
                  Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 8:57 PM
                  To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: Some background on Peter A. Sharp

                   

                   

                  Thank you PeterS, for joining us. 

                   

                  As usual, it was JoeF's unmatched diligence that found all your references. Note your tag here as "PeterS" to distinguish from other kite-gods like Peter Lynn ("PeterL"), Peter Payne ("PeterP"), and so on. 

                   

                  Hoping we can all make something big happen next, with so much talent and experience gathering :)

                   

                  Yours,

                   

                  daveS

                   

                   

                  Image removed by sender.
                  Image removed by sender.

                   

                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20555 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition

                  The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                  Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                  Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                  In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.


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                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20556 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: WhirlWing Windmill

                  WhirlWing Windmill (5)


                  =============================

                  WhirlWing Windmill (6)


                  ==============================


                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20557 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Bird Windmill model simulated pumping using weights
                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20558 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: The search for a high flying clean energy generator
                  The image address was not absolute or full, so image did not show.  

                  Option? Full URL?   Add to Photos folder online in group?  Send by email to moderator?
                  Best, 
                     JoeF
                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20559 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as a to
                  There is ongoing convergence of the engineering science of AWE with topological metamaterials. Starting in the 1980's, from the World Kite Museum's specific focus on cellular kites, trains, and arches, and sources like [van Veem, '96], understanding of "kitematter" in kite culture has evolved in parallel with the science of metamaterials. Multidisciplinary study shared on this forum over the years, to master the essential cross-domain concepts, is paying off in a final comprehensive integration of kitematter to metamaterial theory. 

                  In the closest similarity case yet to our theoretic and empirical understanding of kite lattice potential as an AWES basis, here is a benchtop (macroscopic) realization of a hexagonal kagome lattice of gyroscopes, perturbed by puffs of air. We understand all aero-rotors as inherently gyroscopic, and the common gyroscope as a Magnus rotor in flowing media. Its uncanny how perfect the topological correspondence is of this metamaterial theory and experimental work and our documented visions for AWES kitefarm lattices on the same principles. A functional distinction is that in AWE we intend to tap the coherent edge states for power systematically.



                  Inline image



                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
                  No burden!   Send by email some images!  I'll get them into EnergyKiteSystems.net in folder
                  and send you the URLs for use anywhere you wish.  Paste the URLs into messages and readers will be able to click the URL and see the image desired.  After a couple of practices, the path should be smooth. 

                  Photos served from the Internet outside of Yahoo "Photos" may not need reader to sign in. 
                  Let's see:   I will here do two distinct things:  1. Give the URL of an image from EnergyKiteSystems.net
                  and  2. From the file, copy the image and paste it in active editing.      I am using online signed-in status with the active editor.   You could use email to the group and paste the URL into the email. 
                  1. 

                  =====================
                  2. 



                    

                  JoeF

                   


                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20561 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                  Mario,

                  Nuclear fission science properly begins with Becquerel in 1896, with H.G. Wells predicting the bomb soon after; not Fermi two generations later. In any case, its not logically required for fission and AWE tech to have equivalent gestation periods. For example, AWE R&D was slowed by the 80's oil-glut while nuclear fission R&D was accelerated by military demand.

                  We count Pocock and Payne as the fathers of AWE, just as Loyd himself does. Its also true that upper-wind has long been effectively tapped in large amounts, ever since aviation started using tailwinds systematically over a century ago (its a ~5% fuel offset in current transport aviation).

                  A better predictive metric of AWE progress was performed within WOW (by Carlo and me in 2011), based on plotting the increase in peak power claims by AWE teams over time (NASA critical-path analysis). Based on the trend-line we plotted and continue to watch, AWE remains on-track to mature to utility-scale electrical production around 2025-30, There is real progress, day-by-day, so lets just confidently hang-on ten more years :)

                  daveS


                  On Monday, August 29, 2016 10:23 AM, "marchitti@hotmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

                  The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                  Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                  Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                  In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




                  ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <marchitti@...


                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20562 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as
                  PTO at the directioned waveguide edges!  Their study realm does seem to invite fellowship with the 2-D lattice AWES domes.  Be ready to see edge resultants in 3-D matrix AWES bodies; couplings (tethers) and wings enmeshed (rotors, turbines) may be excited by controlled interaction with the wind to give coherent edge dynamics that may be energy mined.    Nice find, that paper and its references. 
                  ~ JoeF


                  ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@yahoo.com
                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20563 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as
                  Yes Joe, what is especially paying off is our relentlessly obsessive linguistic exploration of observed kite dynamics matched to modern search, to early-identify the parallel progress in AWES and metamaterial science. So we seem to have spotted these metamaterial-kitematter connections first, from the kite-tech side, before the metamaterial mainstream noticed kite-lattices.

                  The coolest part is that we inherit into AWES theory a bounty of formal mathematical science in metamaterials, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel to characterize our kite-lattice designs as metamaterials. Instead, we can look forward to top metamaterial scientists to validate (or not) kitematter conformance to their technical criteria.

                  A clarification is that while the gyroscopes in the novel metamaterial reported are crude Magnus rotors, we include every kind of HAWT-VWAT rotor variation as potentially applicable; let the best rotors win in comparative simulations and testing...


                  On Monday, August 29, 2016 2:18 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
                  PTO at the directioned waveguide edges!  Their study realm does seem to invite fellowship with the 2-D lattice AWES domes.  Be ready to see edge resultants in 3-D matrix AWES bodies; couplings (tethers) and wings enmeshed (rotors, turbines) may be excited by controlled interaction with the wind to give coherent edge dynamics that may be energy mined.    Nice find, that paper and its references. 
                  ~ JoeF


                  ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@yahoo.com


                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20564 From: dave santos Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Long Island Utility adopts kites during peak electrical demand
                  Forum Warning- Kite flight itself is seen here as a form of kite energy. That said, the South Hampton electrical utility, Tri-Star, on Long Island, New York State, has figured out a way to use kites to offset fossil fuel and nuke plants that all the experts overlooked: Electrical customers themselves are recruited to turn off air conditioners during peak electrical demand, and go outside and fly kites.

                  By ongoing coincidence, Ed's cousin Noah, who micro-funded Util kite energy experiments in tandem with WOW, lives in the Hamptons. I stayed there working on AWE in 2011, and flew kites there, including kite-sailing on the Long Island Sound side.

                  It will be interesting if Tri-Energy logs some discernable energy savings tomorrow, during peak demand hours-



                  Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20565 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/29/2016
                  Subject: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.
                  Attachments :

                    Hi Joe,

                    Let’s see if we can get this concept sketch into the Sharp Kites file on your website.

                     

                     

                    PeterS

                     

                     

                    From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
                    Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 11:58 AM
                    To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [AWES] How Trees Talk to Each Other

                     

                     

                    No burden!   Send by email some images!  I'll get them into EnergyKiteSystems.net in folder

                    and send you the URLs for use anywhere you wish.  Paste the URLs into messages and readers will be able to click the URL and see the image desired.  After a couple of practices, the path should be smooth. 

                     

                    Photos served from the Internet outside of Yahoo "Photos" may not need reader to sign in. 

                    Let's see:   I will here do two distinct things:  1. Give the URL of an image from EnergyKiteSystems.net

                    and  2. From the file, copy the image and paste it in active editing.      I am using online signed-in status with the active editor.   You could use email to the group and paste the URL into the email. 

                    1. 

                     

                    =====================

                    2. 

                     

                    Image removed by sender.

                     

                      

                    JoeF

                     

                     

                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20566 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/29/2016
                    Subject: Re: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.
                    Great. 

                    Here is the image with its URL:

                    Another form: 

                     




                    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20567 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/30/2016
                    Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                    Dave, following your reasoning the aircraft technology could begins with Leonardo, and the missions to conquest the moon  with Jules Verne, and the high altitude wind energy with the chinese kites. Actually the real start for the development of the nuclear reactor has to be put several years later, after the Fermi experiment and Szilard intuition of the chain reaction; the real start was given by president Roosevelt, in 1939 with the Manhattan project, after reading the Einstein-Szilard letter and invitation. Also the real start for the Apollo program was given by president Kennedy in 1961, and in 1969 the moon was reached by a man. I recognized that either for the Manhattan or the Apollo program there were prior scientific and technical contributions, but if you track them back in the past you can arrive to the neolithic age and beyond, when the written story begins.
                    I also recognize that in this back trip one can give more or less importance to several contributions according to personal predilection or idiosyncrasy.

                    PS. I do not know what people are doing in Capannori, may be they are having good time playing with kites, as we are playing with words.



                    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

                    The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                    Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                    Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                    In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




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                    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20568 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/30/2016
                    Subject: Re: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.
                    Attachments :

                      Hi Joe,

                      Seems to work fine. When I click the URL below, the drawing pops up. Marvelous!

                      However, when I try the URL you sent me previously for a page with my posted items on it, there is no drawing or URL for the drawing under the heading at the top of the page about Sharp Kites. So I’m not sure what that means. I wish I could be more help, but I’m a computer dummy. I really should get my own website so I could post everything on it. Sooner or later, I will.

                      By the way, your websites are amazingly professional looking. Very impressive!

                      PeterS

                       

                      From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
                      Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 7:03 PM
                      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [AWES] Re: Test drawing to add to Sharp Kite file.

                       

                       

                      Great. 

                      Here is the image with its URL:

                       

                      Another form: 

                      Image removed by sender.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20569 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                      Mario,

                      You understand the point that its hard to define with certainty when a technology begins, so aircraft tech could be even be said to originate with functional ancient kites, which even carried humans.

                       If AWE is to be compared with the Manhattan Project, then we have not yet reached that phase, since we only have about 1000 workers, and the Manhattan project had 130,000. It may even be that AWE will require more workers than the Manhattan Project did, just like the development of modern aviation required more people.

                      In any case we have to wait and see for proof whether the AWE pessimists or optimists were right. My optimism has only grown in the last ten years, unrelated to the timeline for fission tech. The world is changing fast, and AWE's Manhattan/Apollo project may be a distributed social-media movement* that would have been impossible without the Internet.

                      Note also that there is no contradiction between "playing with kites (and) words"; in fact the Wright Brothers both played with kites and wrote more than anyone else, as the means to be "first in flight"**. Those who do not play so hard have less hope,

                      daveS

                      -----------
                      * AWE R&D "Without Walls", after Malreaux.





                      On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 9:59 AM, "marchitti@hotmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
                      Dave, following your reasoning the aircraft technology could begins with Leonardo, and the missions to conquest the moon  with Jules Verne, and the high altitude wind energy with the chinese kites. Actually the real start for the development of the nuclear reactor has to be put several years later, after the Fermi experiment and Szilard intuition of the chain reaction; the real start was given by president Roosevelt, in 1939 with the Manhattan project, after reading the Einstein-Szilard letter and invitation. Also the real start for the Apollo program was given by president Kennedy in 1961, and in 1969 the moon was reached by a man. I recognized that either for the Manhattan or the Apollo program there were prior scientific and technical contributions, but if you track them back in the past you can arrive to the neolithic age and beyond, when the written story begins.
                      I also recognize that in this back trip one can give more or less importance to several contributions according to personal predilection or idiosyncrasy.

                      PS. I do not know what people are doing in Capannori, may be they are having good time playing with kites, as we are playing with words.



                      ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

                      The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                      Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                      Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                      In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




                      ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <marchitti@...


                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20570 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Re: Experimental realization of an aero-lattice of Magnus rotors as
                      Further notes:

                      - Latticed gyroscopes in the experimental set-up were suspended from springs, which made them quasi-airborne and reactive to puffs of air just as flying kite Magnus rotors are.

                      - Lets dub our new class of metamaterial, "aerometamaterial", "aerodynamic metamaterial", or "aeroelastic metamaterial", after the example of "gryroscopic metamaterial". "Aeromet" or "AM" would be short forms.

                      - Our PTO networks will operate by other modes than the edge-mode introduced. Each rotor of ours could have its own PTO line directly down to the anchor-field surface. Our Edge PTOs could absorb the wave energy directly, rather than pass it around.

                      - WECS that operate by oscillation, by tacking or shunting, in fact rotate in phase-space as dynamical systems, so the same basic theoretic math applies as in the rotary (gyroscopic) cases.

                      - There is a wealth of specialized references cited by the paper that we had not seen buried in general topological metamaterial research, which is a very busy field lately, with many branches. It will pay off to follow all these new leads.

                      - Lets not overlook considering chiral (left or right handed) units in opposed pairs as bosonic, while a single rotor is fermionic. Just as a tuning fork, or a bird, or Dabiri's VAWTs, or our vocal cords, are all opposed pairs, this will be the pattern for many cases of rotors. Even the canonical propeller aircraft works as a double-rotor, as the chiral propeller opposes the entire airframe in equilibrium.

                      - A distinguishing feature of our aeromet kitefarms will be the 3D layered structure, with each 2D layer having its distinct role. For example, the top layer might be a lifter layer, then a WECS layer, then a PTO and statc tether layer, then an anchor/groundgen layer.

                      - Inventive aspects of these concepts have emerged on the AWES Forum, ongoingly assigned to the Open-AWE_IP-Cloud, as well as any new aspects presented here. Anyone who contributes aeromet art on this basis is recognized as an co-originator, under CC principles. Under our strong cooperative R&D ethos, lets also duly honor the vital role of key mainstream metamaterial scientists.





                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20571 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Re: Peter A. Sharp. Sharp Cyclo-Kite and TCAT
                      The linked page has been enlarged significantly:


                       



                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20572 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
                      Topic notes: 

                      Readers are invited to see analogies with kite farms as the set of "trees."
                      And also AWE workers as the set of trees. 
                      And directly trees as kite systems generating energy in several ways, certainly as AWES. 
                      Kite-system anchors (opposing wing set to other wing sets in the kite system) may be explored for how information and energy may be shared within an AWES kite farm (forest). 

                      Consider how the above could let one see how Vestas may be tackling 
                      the challenge of bats: HERE

                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20573 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Re: How Trees Talk to Each Other
                      Symbiotic information is just one kind of information trees exchange. Conscious altruism like complex animals can express is not evident. Other forms of known biological interaction include scavenging, parasitism, predation, and territorial competition, with associated communication signals.

                      We are primarily interested in our kite-units operating in harmony, rather than fighting each other. A simpler model is microscopic cell colonies, like algal filaments and spheres, that more obviously work (and "talk") together as meta-units. By comparison, a forest is so complex, its harder to draw direct engineering lessons. Simply cross-connecting identical kite units like horses in harness gets us to the algal colony level.

                      The sky could someday support Darwinian evolution of AWES, much like ocean ecosystems have evolved, with our early comparative fly-offs marking a beginning, and the communication channels including scientific data and papers.




                      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20574 From: dave santos Date: 8/30/2016
                      Subject: Kite Trope in Pop Culture: Thomas and the Kite
                      Attachments :
                        We have reviewed kites in pop culture many times, from Lord Byron and Mary Shelly literary classics to Mary Poppins. Charlie Brown even turned out to be a super-villain, KiteMan, in the Batman comic world. Pay attention these days, and you'll notice frequent and apparently increasing kite references everywhere. We count on modern pop kite fascination to set future AWE technologists on their destined path.

                        Thomas, the famous steam-train hero character, represents a rich vein of children's kite literature. The simple narrative resonates with complex AWES concepts, like coal-to-kite, machine-autonomy, kite-runaway risk, and so on. We can envision where this still evolving fairytale world might end up, with Thomas transformed into a driverless electric groundgen train, working with his kite friends to bring AWE to the world.

                        Our engines do fly kites these days-


                        "I would like to fly a kite!"
                        "Don't be silly, Thomas! Engines don't fly kites!"
                        — Thomas and his driver

                        Inline image



                          @@attachment@@
                        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20575 From: Peter A. Sharp Date: 8/30/2016
                        Subject: Re: Peter A. Sharp. Sharp Cyclo-Kite and TCAT
                        Attachments :

                          Hi Joe,

                          Absolutely fantastic!!!!! A million thanks.

                          PeterS

                           

                          From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:55 PM
                          To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [AWES] Re: Peter A. Sharp. Sharp Cyclo-Kite and TCAT

                           

                           

                          The linked page has been enlarged significantly:

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20576 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Magnetic Suspension Bearings
                          Magnetic Suspension and Magnetic Suspension Bearings

                          ===============================
                          • Alternative bearing for ribbon arch kites and some other rotating kite systems ... 
                          • Rail kiting using magnetic levitation in the kite system?

                          ===============================

                          ===============================

                          This topic thread could trace AWES potential and actual uses of magnetic suspension.
                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20577 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Re: Magnetic Suspension Bearings
                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20578 From: mmarchitti Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                          High altitude wind technology, along these many years, failed in creating an operative consortium, as the Manhattan project, where at the beginning few people and little money were involved in; the large number of companies and people presently involved in the AWE field confirm the fragmentation of the field, with a great dispersion of resource, and with no appreachable results. "A special aircraft and carrier" is an image that I usually used to describe the complexity of the task, and of course to produce that system at an industrial scale you require an industry with several thousand people, as in the Manhattan project, or as in a large aircraft industry.

                          I think that in most of the technology development, as in the nuclear, aerospace, aircraft etc, one can identify several milestones as reference. In our case the Mobile Gen in 2006 (see video 5) was the most important step that gave the correct indication toward the high altitude wind energy exploitation. Infact, also Wubbo Ockels abandoned his original Ladder Mill toward a system, now in the TUDELF, similar to the Mobile Gen, but with just one cable and the actuator in flight, that in my opinion are still weakness in that project.

                          After 2006 people diverged instead of converging, with conflict, personal attack, polemics; and now we can see the results, that are no results.


                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
                          Dave, following your reasoning the aircraft technology could begins with Leonardo, and the missions to conquest the moon  with Jules Verne, and the high altitude wind energy with the chinese kites. Actually the real start for the development of the nuclear reactor has to be put several years later, after the Fermi experiment and Szilard intuition of the chain reaction; the real start was given by president Roosevelt, in 1939 with the Manhattan project, after reading the Einstein-Szilard letter and invitation. Also the real start for the Apollo program was given by president Kennedy in 1961, and in 1969 the moon was reached by a man. I recognized that either for the Manhattan or the Apollo program there were prior scientific and technical contributions, but if you track them back in the past you can arrive to the neolithic age and beyond, when the written story begins.
                          I also recognize that in this back trip one can give more or less importance to several contributions according to personal predilection or idiosyncrasy.

                          PS. I do not know what people are doing in Capannori, may be they are having good time playing with kites, as we are playing with words.



                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

                          The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                          Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                          Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                          In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




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                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20579 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Fwd: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016
                          " Joe Hadzicki brings an update on the state of wind energy generation ..."

                          For full issue: PDF here
                          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                          From: Drachen Foundation
                          Date: Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:18 AM
                          Subject: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016



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                          News from the 
                          Drachen Foundation
                          Just Released: Discourse Issue 23
                          Discourse Issue 23

                          In the summer issue of Discourse: from the end of the line, father and son kite ambassadors Richard and Robert Loera share insights on how they came to kites, photos by Jose Sainz tell the story of 2016’s Cervia International Kite Festival, Scott Skinner discusses the ideas of pioneering sky artist Otto Piene, Joe Hadzicki brings an update on the state of wind energy generation, Ali Fujino reports on Drachen’s first kite exhibit in Tieton, Washington, and NGO Roshni Helpline inspires with their kite project to raise awareness about the cause of missing children in Pakistan.

                          Download and read Discourse Issue 23 
                          Barriletes Gigantes Are Coming to Tieton

                          Guatemala Exhibit
                          Erin and Tanner Hatch

                          Guatemalan barriletes gigantes (giant kites) are coming to Tieton for the Day of the Dead! Photographers and designers Erin and Tanner Hatch traveled to Sumpango, Guatemala with the Drachen Foundation in 2013. With backgrounds in architecture, art, graphic design, and photography, the couple was instantly transfixed by their visit to Guatemala...

                          Continue reading
                          Pat Hammond in Flight
                           
                          Pat Hammond
                          Christopher Ornelas

                          Our colleague Christopher Ornelas takes off again, this time in two ways. A resident of San Antonio, Texas, he has known the family of kite collector and artist Pat Hammond for decades. We have written about her kite art in years past, and many know her from her curated kite exhibits around the states. Her own approach to kites was often accompanied by her personal poems. Her wonderful family recently thought it was time to document Pat and all her artful accomplishments and muses, and commissioned Christopher to detail it all in a book...

                          Continue reading
                          Fair Winds,
                          The Drachen Foundation
                          Drachen Foudation | 2212 Queen Anne Ave N #501 | Seattle, WA 98109
                          Phone: 206-282-4349 | info@drachen.org | www.drachen.org
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                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20580 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                          Mario,

                          Lets be clear that Wubbo shortly before his death [AWEC 2011] presented his brilliant "SpiderMill" AWES concept as the actual successor to the LadderMill. The small-scale AWES Roland continues to develop was clearly seen as just a reserch testbed and small-scale solution for possible early adoption in remote energy-starved communities. The SpiderMill vision matched my learning at the World Kite Museum, and there was an Italian presence involved. I especially invited WOW's Italian delegation to sit with us at Wubbo's table at the conference banquet  (with Dave North, NASA LaRC, and his wife). Paolo, Carlo, or Gaetano can confirm to you that the one major missing player was KiteGen. Later that year, I helped set a world record with a SpiderMill kite train of 39 kites, which Wubbo got to appreciate shortly before passing. Mathematical physicist and sci-fi legend, Rudy Rucker, tweeted rapturously about it.

                          There has been a lot of fantastic progress in AWE, but no wonder that from the self-isolated KiteGen perspective the AWE world fell apart, since it was they who left the global party early. I made the effort to build a bridge to KiteGen, and even got to visit the KiteGen Cupola, but Massimo resolutely dismissed collaboration with anyone else in AWE, claiming to have all the answers himself. All the other major AWE circles continued to interact on cordial terms, setting aside conference complaints and technical disagreements. Most are eagerly working closer together as the gap left by Wubbo's death and KiteGen, Makani, Ampyx, and AWEC's withdrawls fully heals. Many of us are very close, including Italian teams outside KiteGen.

                          KiteGen may have wasted big-money on expensive secondary items; like experimental super-capacitors, custom giant carbon pulleys, hot-dip galvanizing the Cupola, unworkable Stems, and production tooling for an almost unflyable prototype carbon wing, that could have gone toward more basic AWE progress, but such waste is a necessary cautionary lesson to those who follow of how not to invest in R&D. KiteGen should learn from its mistakes and get back on-course, or face take-over by activist investors and reformed. You are ideally placed in any such resolution.

                          The same critique goes for Makani and Ampyx, with large misdirected investments by closed venture cultures. If these early AWE leaders had embraced global collaboration and focused on the engineering essentials, they might have shown the way to all, but no independent domain expert thinks they are doing so now. So you got to see KiteGen from inside its bubble, which has now popped, and I got to see into Makani and Ampyx bubbles as well. Now we all get to see how AWE is actually solved by those who do not repeat now-obvious mistakes.

                          Credit the Internet as a new alternative force that currently binds AWE together, in the absence of an old-fashioned Manhattan or Apollo Program, that could still emerge anytime. While AWE progress is not always highly visible, its real to the best-informed. Many fine teams, old and new, are active, and far more ready for collaboration than KiteGen. There is also far more money in the pipeline for AWE R&D than ever before, to pay for a lot more mistakes on the long path to eventual break-though success,

                          daveS


                          On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 1:23 PM, "marchitti@hotmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
                          High altitude wind technology, along these many years, failed in creating an operative consortium, as the Manhattan project, where at the beginning few people and little money were involved in; the large number of companies and people presently involved in the AWE field confirm the fragmentation of the field, with a great dispersion of resource, and with no appreachable results. "A special aircraft and carrier" is an image that I usually used to describe the complexity of the task, and of course to produce that system at an industrial scale you require an industry with several thousand people, as in the Manhattan project, or as in a large aircraft industry.

                          I think that in most of the technology development, as in the nuclear, aerospace, aircraft etc, one can identify several milestones as reference. In our case the Mobile Gen in 2006 (see video 5) was the most important step that gave the correct indication toward the high altitude wind energy exploitation. Infact, also Wubbo Ockels abandoned his original Ladder Mill toward a system, now in the TUDELF, similar to the Mobile Gen, but with just one cable and the actuator in flight, that in my opinion are still weakness in that project.

                          After 2006 people diverged instead of converging, with conflict, personal attack, polemics; and now we can see the results, that are no results.


                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
                          Dave, following your reasoning the aircraft technology could begins with Leonardo, and the missions to conquest the moon  with Jules Verne, and the high altitude wind energy with the chinese kites. Actually the real start for the development of the nuclear reactor has to be put several years later, after the Fermi experiment and Szilard intuition of the chain reaction; the real start was given by president Roosevelt, in 1939 with the Manhattan project, after reading the Einstein-Szilard letter and invitation. Also the real start for the Apollo program was given by president Kennedy in 1961, and in 1969 the moon was reached by a man. I recognized that either for the Manhattan or the Apollo program there were prior scientific and technical contributions, but if you track them back in the past you can arrive to the neolithic age and beyond, when the written story begins.
                          I also recognize that in this back trip one can give more or less importance to several contributions according to personal predilection or idiosyncrasy.

                          PS. I do not know what people are doing in Capannori, may be they are having good time playing with kites, as we are playing with words.



                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

                          The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                          Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                          Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                          In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <marchitti@...


                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20581 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: Re: Fwd: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016
                          This article featuring Makani provides journalistic balance to Joe's other AWE articles for DF, which present all players in a friendly light. There is no new Makani information for the expert observer, as the GoogleX news black-out continues.

                          My recent meeting with Joe at WSIKF2016 came after this article was submitted. I report that Joe's personal preference is still for simple AWES concepts, like his crosswind cableway kite buggy concept in [Lang, DF, 2004], and he also favors exploring the full diversity of AWE concepts systematically, and is open to a broad R&D leadership role, with an equitable diplomatic approach to all people and concepts.


                          On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:22 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
                          " Joe Hadzicki brings an update on the state of wind energy generation ..."

                          For full issue: PDF here
                          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                          From: Drachen Foundation
                          Date: Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:18 AM
                          Subject: Drachen Foundation Newsletter: August 2016



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                          Just Released: Discourse Issue 23
                          Discourse Issue 23

                          In the summer issue of Discourse: from the end of the line, father and son kite ambassadors Richard and Robert Loera share insights on how they came to kites, photos by Jose Sainz tell the story of 2016’s Cervia International Kite Festival, Scott Skinner discusses the ideas of pioneering sky artist Otto Piene, Joe Hadzicki brings an update on the state of wind energy generation, Ali Fujino reports on Drachen’s first kite exhibit in Tieton, Washington, and NGO Roshni Helpline inspires with their kite project to raise awareness about the cause of missing children in Pakistan.

                          Download and read Discourse Issue 23 
                          Barriletes Gigantes Are Coming to Tieton

                          Guatemala Exhibit
                          Erin and Tanner Hatch

                          Guatemalan barriletes gigantes (giant kites) are coming to Tieton for the Day of the Dead! Photographers and designers Erin and Tanner Hatch traveled to Sumpango, Guatemala with the Drachen Foundation in 2013. With backgrounds in architecture, art, graphic design, and photography, the couple was instantly transfixed by their visit to Guatemala...

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                          Pat Hammond in Flight
                           
                          Pat Hammond
                          Christopher Ornelas

                          Our colleague Christopher Ornelas takes off again, this time in two ways. A resident of San Antonio, Texas, he has known the family of kite collector and artist Pat Hammond for decades. We have written about her kite art in years past, and many know her from her curated kite exhibits around the states. Her own approach to kites was often accompanied by her personal poems. Her wonderful family recently thought it was time to document Pat and all her artful accomplishments and muses, and commissioned Christopher to detail it all in a book...

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                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20582 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: e-kite reveals its double-boom quad-rotor kiteplane concept
                          e-kite newly presents many nice detail-engineering elaborations of the reeling AWES concept advocated by its academic affiliate, TUDelft. Persistent challenges for e-kite are high capital-cost per unit-energy, limited-scalability of rigid VTOL kites, an inherent early-R&D lifecycle reliability gap, and multiple similar competitors (KiteMill, Enerkite, KiteNRG, WindLift, eWind, etc.).

                          A plausible near-term scenario is a shake-out of similar AWES reeling products with one winner in the small-scale l remote energy market niche. A shake-out would likely involve a mix of business failures of the weakest ventures and consolidations of the best. Long-term survival might involve venture migration to more advanced AWES architectures that prove superior to reeling in research testing and energy markets.

                          These early products may not be perfect nor profitable, but they do function, if marginally, and represent a real milestone along the path to mature AWE tech.




                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20583 From: dave santos Date: 8/31/2016
                          Subject: KiteMill's IP Advisors (plus ~50m2 LEI wing pictures)
                          Strange to find KiteMil's big LEI wing best pictured on an IP advisor page, and its not even KiteMill IP. Its probable that test flying was a frightening adventure, if the wind was strong. Unexplained are the spar protrusions from the TE.



                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20584 From: mmarchitti Date: 9/1/2016
                          Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                          I am sorry, but I do not see adequate documentation for the Spider-Mill, just a confusing video and, as usual, a lot of words and...kites. One needs, to judge, a technical evaluation for its efficiency, applicability, scalability, maximum power etc; I also wonder if there is a technical demonstrator, with land occupation, energy production etc. Moreover Spider-Mill does not seem a Wubbo Ockels creature.

                          Here I can list several major European projects-companies for the high altitude wind energy that were born after Mobile Gen Demonstration in 2006, and took inspiration from the Mobile Gen scheme

                          - SwissKitePower TWINGTEC
                          - NTS Fraunhofer
                          - SkySail WindPower
                          - Kitenergy
                          - TU Delft
                          - Ampix

                          Most of them, differently by Mobile Gen, use the actuators in flight and one cable, that in my opinion are severe weakness

                          I think we have to separate the technical from the personal aspects, we must have different judgement: may be a person can be a very gifted technician and contemporary have a harsh, aggressive and rude nature. Important scientists in history showed these double nature. Therefore we have to abandon this manichaeism attitude, by classifying people as being exceptionally good or exceptionally bad.

                          Years have passed since WOW became independent: I wonder, during these 5 years, and with 1-one million-milione of euro of dowry what WOW has done with them. One million euro and 5 years are a lot, and now you cannot even find an internet site of WOW. And in Capannori what people are doing? - apart from playing with words and kites?


                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
                          High altitude wind technology, along these many years, failed in creating an operative consortium, as the Manhattan project, where at the beginning few people and little money were involved in; the large number of companies and people presently involved in the AWE field confirm the fragmentation of the field, with a great dispersion of resource, and with no appreachable results. "A special aircraft and carrier" is an image that I usually used to describe the complexity of the task, and of course to produce that system at an industrial scale you require an industry with several thousand people, as in the Manhattan project, or as in a large aircraft industry.

                          I think that in most of the technology development, as in the nuclear, aerospace, aircraft etc, one can identify several milestones as reference. In our case the Mobile Gen in 2006 (see video 5) was the most important step that gave the correct indication toward the high altitude wind energy exploitation. Infact, also Wubbo Ockels abandoned his original Ladder Mill toward a system, now in the TUDELF, similar to the Mobile Gen, but with just one cable and the actuator in flight, that in my opinion are still weakness in that project.

                          After 2006 people diverged instead of converging, with conflict, personal attack, polemics; and now we can see the results, that are no results.


                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
                          Dave, following your reasoning the aircraft technology could begins with Leonardo, and the missions to conquest the moon  with Jules Verne, and the high altitude wind energy with the chinese kites. Actually the real start for the development of the nuclear reactor has to be put several years later, after the Fermi experiment and Szilard intuition of the chain reaction; the real start was given by president Roosevelt, in 1939 with the Manhattan project, after reading the Einstein-Szilard letter and invitation. Also the real start for the Apollo program was given by president Kennedy in 1961, and in 1969 the moon was reached by a man. I recognized that either for the Manhattan or the Apollo program there were prior scientific and technical contributions, but if you track them back in the past you can arrive to the neolithic age and beyond, when the written story begins.
                          I also recognize that in this back trip one can give more or less importance to several contributions according to personal predilection or idiosyncrasy.

                          PS. I do not know what people are doing in Capannori, may be they are having good time playing with kites, as we are playing with words.



                          ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

                          The first article that is credited to have paved the way to the high altitude wind energy is that of Miles Loyd in 1980. But the physics of that article is just an elaboration of  the lift and drag relations for an airfoil, discovered by George Cayley more than one hundred years before; moreover the technical suggestion for a project, contained in the same article of Loyd, implemented by Makani (an inverted aircraft), would not be better than the traditional wind tower turbine. The first project of Wubbo Ockels, the Ladder Mill, was still inferior to the traditional wind turbine. Infact later, Wubbo Ockels, after seeing a different and more sound approach and scheme, changed his mind and project, and so did and many others.

                          Anyway, dozen of years have passed, and no project prototypes, producing appreciable energy from high altitude wind, have been showed to the public - apart Makany, Altaeros and Magenn which have no future as a concept (they are sort of revers aircraft).

                          Let's have a comparison with the fission nuclear energy evolution. The first experiment of a nuclear fission (however it was not recognized as such) was obtained by Enrico Fermi team in Rome, by 1934 ; about ten years later the first fission nuclear reactor was built in Chicago, and just after, alas, the first nuclear bomb exploded. In comparison, even though the physics of high wind energy is plain (but not the technology), more years have passed and more money have been spent, neverthless no appreciable results have been seen from high altitude wind energy.

                          In the Hamburg conference/forum I can see dozen of companies taking part; but a lot more companies, also important, are not appearing in the brochure, even though they are still working in the field. I also believe that several hundred of people are engaged in the field, therefore the cost of the companies structure and people salary I think amount to a large sum.




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                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20585 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2016
                          Subject: Re: Mission Innovation and Breakthrough Energy Coalition
                          Mario,

                          Its true that Wubbo's SpiderMill concept deserves to be better explored, and TUDelft has simply neglected that challenge. That Wubbo presented the SpiderMill to the entire AWEC2011 attendee group clearly shows his thinking had evolved beyond conceptual limitations Kitegen and most others still suffer under. An AE PhD astronaut like Wubbo can be generally expected to have a superior technical vision compared to less-gifted humans.

                          There is no shortage of documentation of the traditional branching kite-train Wubbo proposed to make pump. It was developed by Eddy over a century ago, and I learned to fly such trains to
                          .



                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20587 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2016
                          Subject: Re: ISEC
                          Someone, Ted Semon,  managing a blog at ISEC for nine years signs away from doing the blog with some telling tether comments:

                          "What is the status of an earth-based space elevator?  In the most important area, tether strength, we’re still where we were nine years ago.  No one has produced a tether from new materials that matches, let alone exceeds, tethers made from conventional materials and until that happens, an earth-based space elevator remains a pipe-dream.  But research continues, and perhaps someday material like this will become a reality.  If and when it does, then perhaps I’ll restart this blog.  I still love the idea of a space elevator, but the reality is that right now (and for the foreseeable future), it’s just not possible to build one…
                          Two groups still continue to press forward with this idea however, the aforementioned International Space Elevator Consortium (ISEC) and the Japan Space Elevator Association (JSEA).  ISEC, under the current leadership of Dr. Peter Swan, is in very capable hands.  While they are not working with the materials science necessary to make a super-strong tether, they continue to investigate other areas in order to, in the very appropriate phrase from Ben Shelef, “increase our understanding of the space elevator“."
                          Clipped Aug 2016 from: The Space Elevator Blog
                          About Ted Semon

                           


                           
                          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20589 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2016
                          Subject: Re: ISEC
                          That blog note was posted in March 2015.