daveS: You guys are mired in an
"echo-chamber" mentality, where you shout, then listen for the echo as
confirmation of your shout. For example, you go into great detail
"shouting" about quantum-this and Einstein-that, as long as there is
only your own echo to agree with, but the moment someone transmits your
shout outside the echo-chamber to a group of physics people, you are
suddenly and mysteriously silent. If you really had such
interest and expertise in quantum physics, you'd be unable to resist
taking that discussion into the realm of a physics forum, but there you
would face opinions other than your own echo, by people who have some
familiarity with the subject matter, therefore you are 100%
uninterested. The only interesting thing for you is hearing your
own echo back. THen the mutual-admiration society can slap each
other on the back, declaring what geniuses each other are, for doing
nothing but blathering nonsense on the internet. If you say Joe
is responsible for first noticing kites are similar to airplanes, and I
point out that the first airplanes were literally powered kites, long
before any of us, including Joe, was even born, you have no response -
even though you are already well-aware of this fact, it is not part of
your mutual-admiration-society self-reinforcing echo chamber. You
like to hear your own voice come back off the giant rock wall in the
distance, and are surprised when a different voice comes back, leaving
you baffled, with no response. Sorry, but people have been
noticing leaves blowing in the wind since before people were people,
and claiming that they are "a kite" is no revelation, just one more
echo in the echo chamber - more nothingness masquerading as
something-ness. My dog was similarly fascinated by
leaves blowing in the wind, at least until she grew past the puppy
stage. To her, a blowing leaf was "prey" to be pounced on.
I suppose a few puppies together might echo this notion a time or two,
like a puppy-echo-chamber, until they realized it only acted like prey
in a very limited way, and was not in fact prey at all, just a leaf,
blowing in the wind. You similarly note that several kites can
be configured to mutually stabilize each other (a mutually-reinforcing
echo-chamber of kites?), but that is not enough. To make your
observation worship-worthy in the echo-chamber, it must become
something "only you can understand", it must invoke the name "Einstein"
- it must become "quantum physics", making you an extreme genius, the
likes of which nobody has seen before, with insights so profound they
need never be built or realized, just worshiped. The idea that
kites tied together could lend mutual stability simply "because they
are tied together" would be just too boring,with no provision to be
raised to the standard of "worship" in "the echo-chamber" of would-be
genius. It almost seems that you have a need to cite
increasingly bizarre notions on a daily basis, as though you are
broadcasting a "play-by-play" coverage of an imaginary AWE that could
not exist without your daily commentary (Schroedinger's KITE?), whether
you actually have anything to say or not. I'd say, if you really
believed in your quantum-kite-physics, you'd be unable to resist
discussing it with quantum physics people, but of course they seem to
agree, so far, that your postulations are off-target. Similarly
regarding the idea that Joe was the first to equate airplanes and kites
only resonates in an echo chamber with no disparate voices. Enter
anyone else's opinion, and your echoes fall flat. I can agree
that Joe is a great guy without giving him credit for first noticing
that airplanes are similar to kites. And I can agree that kites
can mutually stabilize without claiming that if they can wiggle
together, it is suddenly "quantum physics" or, "the ultimate and final
answer to the energy crisis" (crisis? does everything have to be "a
crisis"?) per se. ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Pardon
me for having a view that differs from what daveS expressed (imagine
that!) but my take is (as much as I am thrilled with your level of
enthusiasm) you guys are mostly conducting a little mutual admiration
society, or maybe more like a circle-jerk. First off, the
statement "Before Joe, kite and airplane were loosely equated, but not
strongly unified." does not agree with what I had learned about early
flight by second grade:
The
Wrights and others were shifting between kites, gliders, then finally a
powered airplane, as branches of a unified concept, while they
developed the airplane specifically from the kite. Many
prototypes startes as kites, which were then turned into gliders, and
finally powered. So the kite-airplane unification began
before the first airplane even flew! The idea that Joe originated
the idea by postulations on the internet in the 21st century seems very
inaccurate, since the airplane was originated from kites, by
kite-flyers, and to this day, small gliders with cloth wings are still
often called "kites" - I know mine was.
Then
we have DaveS endlessly declaring how kites are really examples quantum
physics, implying that if only people could grasp his insights, we'd
suddenly have instant success in AWE, despite the fact that most of the
ideas expressed for working mechanisms do not meet even the minimum
well-understood standards of what is known to make usable power from
the wind, and despite no evidence of veracity and no person from the
physics community agreeing. In that case, I'd say we have a
one-person circle-jerk, since nobody else seems to participate in the
quantum discussions, although if he turned out to be right he would be
a visionary. To me, all the talk of quantum physics is mostly an
internal delaying tactic, in lieu of showing anything working.
I
was disturbed by this dynamic from the moment I walked into the first
international AWE conference, only to find a vacuum of wind energy
knowledge, a complete disinterest, really, while Joe & Co.
gleefully fixated on merely "flying kites" and "Germy Awards".
The persistent dynamic here is endless worship (and I do mean worship,
in your own words, consistently calling mere kite-flyers "gods", etc.)
of those who never have, and probably never will, produce anything that
makes even a single watt of wind power, while ignoring or
deriding those who DO make power and who DO understand wind energy.
In
colloquial terms, I'd have to say you guys are mostly "smoking your own
crack", "drinking your own Kool-Aid" and maybe having a "cluster-bleep"
in this fixation on endless talk of ideas that are not built, and if
built, never making significant power, but instead, expressing dubious
and mostly disproven notions that are just talk-talk-talked about in
the most minute details, while the overall realistic picture seems to
just "fly right over your heads", (forgive the pun) unacknowledged,
unrecognized, and unmentioned.
Beyond
that, I heartily endorse the raw enthusiasm of you guys, and I hope
someone, hopefully one of us, will get something going that surprises
everyone, soon! :) DougS
---In
AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
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