Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 17595 to 17645 Page 246 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17595 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: Planck Units for AWES Design

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17596 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17597 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17598 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: Planck Units for AWES Design

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17599 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17600 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17601 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17602 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17603 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17604 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Brazil AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17605 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: What are kite phonons?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17606 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17607 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Forum Moderation ("you've come to the wrong place")

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17608 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17609 From: edoishi Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Boomers: the new Single Skin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17610 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17611 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17612 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17613 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17614 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Making a Sonic Black Hole with a Cable Loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17615 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17616 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17617 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17618 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17619 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17620 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17621 From: edoishi Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17622 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17624 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17625 From: Cleventine Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17626 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17627 From: Rod Read Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17628 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17629 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17630 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17631 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: stack of flappers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17632 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17633 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: stack of flappers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17634 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17635 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: stack of flappers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17636 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: stack of flappers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17637 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17638 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: stack of flappers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17639 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17640 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17641 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17642 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/18/2015
Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17643 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/18/2015
Subject: Lift , tilt and stability of rotation axis

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17644 From: Rod Read Date: 4/18/2015
Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17645 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/18/2015
Subject: Re: stack of flappers



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17595 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: Planck Units for AWES Design
One, under the Zeppelin brand, but its quite safe, just too slow and expensive. Why can't you post on-topic?
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 12:40 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: Planck Units for AWES Design

 

"Doug is off-topic again, and failing to cite his sources (for airship history)."
daveS is wrong again.  Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airship_accidents
daveS, please share with the rest of the class, a list of zeppelins operating today.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17596 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics
Doug,

It's not like your own hot air has any technical inventiveness, but is mere heckling, which is an abuse of the list.

Try to master the physics to add or correct the topic itself. We already know how emotionally bitter such ideas are to you,

DaveS
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 1:21 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AWES] Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

 

"a kite in low wind can be interpreted as the Zero-Point Energy state, as Einstein and Stern first defined"
*** There have been a couple more answers offered on the physics phorum:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/quantum-bose-einstein-effects-on-a-macro-scale.807794/
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17597 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
Correcting Doug, there are in fact many milestones in AWE behind us, and even more to come. No one claiming in AWE is more behind than Doug, who still often claims to be about to do something, but with no result, for many years now; not even a sign of trying. Christian deserves fair chance to prove Doug wrong.
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 1:19 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

 

"ModularMarine should be producing a prototype by the beginning of next year for our Kite Engine and perhaps some other Modules."  ***Seems like all the AWE efforts endlessly target "next year".  The only thing is, when next year rolls in, it will still be "next year".  Saves having to redo websites etc.

"We have a long term plan and will start with water sports and kite  controlling systems before AWE and eventually full automation.."
*** Start simple, good idea.  Awe is too hard to ever actually DO.  Next year...

"Its a shame that the only consumer level kite controlling systems are rudimentary reels and kite bars."
*** Then again, that is your opening.  The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind.

"We are developing a full suite of functionality that will hopefully fill that void." *** Ahhhh, Roger that - 10-4.


I dont think anyone is interested in my investor but you, Dave,
*** Yeah, what a busy-body, eh?  He hates the mere smell of success.  It clashes with the aroma of BS.

"...I dont see much sharing of ideas.."
*** the people without any good ideas are the ones advocating that everyone share all their ideas.  Typical.

"Dave, have you used any ideas from anyone else in this forum in particular, Rod, Myself, Pierre, Doug, Joe?"
*** He's still working on how to fly a kite.

"Anyway, I find the more time I spend writing pithy emails, the less time I have to focus on my work.."
*** I have also noticed that. (ahem).  By the way, Profethor Crackpot liketh pithy emailth, cuth he ith pithed!!

"Ill just tell you good luck, and I wish you nothing but success." - Christian
*** Luck in wind energy lasts until the first storm.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17598 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: Planck Units for AWES Design
DaveS said: "One, under the Zeppelin brand, but its quite safe, just too slow and expensive. (like all your goofy ideas - get a clue) Why can't you post on-topic?" ***I was REPLYING to YOUR off-topic post.  The topic was rigid wings vs soft cloth structures, and the theme was rigid wings are safer whereas large soft structures, inflated and uninflated, both have a history of sounding good on paper, until the first unexpected gust ruins the party, often killing several people REMEMBER????
PS, the only safe Zeppelin is a Led Zeppelin.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17599 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics
"Try to master the physics to add or correct the topic itself. We already know how emotionally bitter such ideas are to you," -DaveS
***Hey Dave, I see no reason to learn the fine points of quantum physics to do wind energy because, unlike you, I am not delusionally prone to getting sidetracked by every shiny object that crosses my view, and am not about to lose focus thinking I am "the next Einstein" or whatever.  Professor Crackpot on steroids is how I would characterize your latest foray into quantum phantasy.  If you only knew how symptomatic you are.  One thing I've learned in life: We all like to think we're unique, but at the same time, we're all statistics.  You statistically travel in the well-worn, muddy ruts of "Professor Crackpot", and you prove it again and again, every day.  Thanks for valiantly and unrelentingly carrying the P.C. flame.  You do it well.  :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17600 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
"No one claiming in AWE is more behind than Doug"
*** I'm a hare in a field of tortoises, that's for sure...  :)
Let's all say it together: "We will have a product out next year!"
(laughtrack)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17601 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics
Ask physics guys if kite phonons are bosons. You are acting like a real jerk on that forum with the silly non-physics distractions.
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 1:21 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AWES] Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

 

"a kite in low wind can be interpreted as the Zero-Point Energy state, as Einstein and Stern first defined"
*** There have been a couple more answers offered on the physics phorum:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/quantum-bose-einstein-effects-on-a-macro-scale.807794/
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17602 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics
This is in fact a super cool topic. Sorry if it bothers you, but there is a lot more to come. You will have a cat.
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 6:41 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AWES] Re: More Kite Quantum-Thermodynamics

 

"Try to master the physics to add or correct the topic itself. We already know how emotionally bitter such ideas are to you," -DaveS
***Hey Dave, I see no reason to learn the fine points of quantum physics to do wind energy because, unlike you, I am not delusionally prone to getting sidetracked by every shiny object that crosses my view, and am not about to lose focus thinking I am "the next Einstein" or whatever.  Professor Crackpot on steroids is how I would characterize your latest foray into quantum phantasy.  If you only knew how symptomatic you are.  One thing I've learned in life: We all like to think we're unique, but at the same time, we're all statistics.  You statistically travel in the well-worn, muddy ruts of "Professor Crackpot", and you prove it again and again, every day.  Thanks for valiantly and unrelentingly carrying the P.C. flame.  You do it well.  :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17603 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
A sweet AWE product was the KiteLab Ilwaco FlipWing, in 2008. That's seven years ago. SkySails has sold large systems.    There are many early cases. Kite Sports are AWE. It's a fine start, the market is a newborn baby that will grow like crazy as the tech matures. Best job ever for eight years now, yet still feel sorry for the burn-outs :(
From: dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2015 6:49 PM
To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AWES] Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

 

"No one claiming in AWE is more behind than Doug"
*** I'm a hare in a field of tortoises, that's for sure...  :)
Let's all say it together: "We will have a product out next year!"
(laughtrack)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17604 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: Brazil AWE

Brazil AWE

... all in Brazil are welcome to the world of AWE.


UFSC – Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina


?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17605 From: dave santos Date: 4/15/2015
Subject: What are kite phonons?
Phonons are thermodynamic quanta of mechanical action classed as bosons, just as Doug's cartoon physics advisor demands. Yes, you must apply Debye temperature or de Broglie wavelength, based on characteristic dimension (macroscopic Planck length), or you are stuck with classical physics, and won't understand how cool our kites really are.

The phonons excited in a kite by wind are wave packets of potential and kinetic energy. The kite itself is like an engineered electron hole media, or phonon hole rather, hosting a complex phonon packet during flight. In stable flight the phonons form standing waves, and in dancing or tacking flight are strong oscillators, which is a useful dynamic state for AWE. 

By arranging kites in stacks and lattices, like semiconductor chips on a grand scale, they can sustain long-range-order in coherent phonon states, harvesting and transmitting power effectively. The WindJammers kite team comes to mind. Even their 30 year old UHMWPE lines, that have crept longer over time into ever higher crystalline order, are a marvel of physics. 

It does not take an Einstein to appreciate all this.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17606 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?
OK here is the latest answer on that physics phorum:

"I'm sure you're not getting more answers than this, we've already spent too much time on this. There's not going to be a discussion because we all agree. It's like as if you went into a biology forum asking "do dogs lay eggs?" and when they tell you "no, they're mammals" you keep asking why as if they had to go back to eukaryote biochemistry: that's simply not going to happen :) "

I will cut-paste your response regarding phonons being bosons and see what they say.  By the way, I'm not sure if I believe a kite wiggling constitutes "phonons", because if we used the kite string as a tin-can telephone, the frequencies would be much higher than kites wiggling.
(PS, dogs do lay eggs, which is why I had my dog fixed - no more egg-laying)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17607 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Forum Moderation ("you've come to the wrong place")

Having failed to approach the Physics Forum eager to share and learn something wonderful about kite physics, and willfully avoiding presention of citations carefully and fairly, Doug instead naively sought to turn that expert forum into a "a flame-war with lots of name-calling, capital letters, exclamation points, etc.", and was once again reminded by a volunteer moderator what knowledge forums are really about. The same norms apply here, with the difference that we are coerced to tolerate Doug's clearly unhelpful postings, lest he claim "censorship" in Open-AWE. Thus he apparently lives out his stated "dream" here. Sorry, Doug; its the "wrong place".

Doug moderated on the Physics Forum-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17608 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?
Doug,

You already screwed up on the Physics Forum, and are confusing the rebuke of your bad presentation and motives with serious physics critique. You should have started by carefully referencing the original material, without all the sick-puppy chat.

Lets see if they bother to confirm to you what Wikipedia could without having to bother them, that a phonon is classed as a boson, as a very newbie lesson.

daveS 




On Thursday, April 16, 2015 8:38 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
OK here is the latest answer on that physics phorum:

"I'm sure you're not getting more answers than this, we've already spent too much time on this. There's not going to be a discussion because we all agree. It's like as if you went into a biology forum asking "do dogs lay eggs?" and when they tell you "no, they're mammals" you keep asking why as if they had to go back to eukaryote biochemistry: that's simply not going to happen :) "

I will cut-paste your response regarding phonons being bosons and see what they say.  By the way, I'm not sure if I believe a kite wiggling constitutes "phonons", because if we used the kite string as a tin-can telephone, the frequencies would be much higher than kites wiggling.
(PS, dogs do lay eggs, which is why I had my dog fixed - no more egg-laying)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17609 From: edoishi Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Boomers: the new Single Skin
A look at Peter Lynn's latest single skin kite at Kaixan Kite Manufacture in China. I believe that is Peter himself..
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17610 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?
DaveS: I'd be happy to see you discuss your kite/B.E.C. theorem on the physics phorum.  I have cut-pasted your latest response there.  My take is this: You are espousing the notion of a stack of kites oscillating in some sort of synchrony, whereby they all work (jerk?) together to drive an oscillating load at ground level.  Do I have that right? 

I think it is an admirable approach, and I hope you can get it to work, although I have doubts as to the efficiency regarding output versus the amount of hardware, as well as longevity.  Here are two points:

1) I may be missing something, but, have you shown this method to work at all yet?  What is the frequency and speed of the "phonons"?  Are you sure that the operative tugs on your string are really phonons?

2) I like the general idea, whether or not it can be accurately described as a "Bose-Einstein Condensate"  In the end, if you CAN get it to work, will that B.E.C. notion even matter?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17611 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: What are kite phonons?
Doug,

All you have to do is review and comprehend what has been written on these subjects for your answers. It should not be necessary to re-post to you, use your search tools.

Try citing the IOP paper on the Newton's Cradle as a BES case to the Physics Forum, as bearing exactly on your questions,

daveS



On Thursday, April 16, 2015 9:26 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS: I'd be happy to see you discuss your kite/B.E.C. theorem on the physics phorum.  I have cut-pasted your latest response there.  My take is this: You are espousing the notion of a stack of kites oscillating in some sort of synchrony, whereby they all work (jerk?) together to drive an oscillating load at ground level.  Do I have that right? 

I think it is an admirable approach, and I hope you can get it to work, although I have doubts as to the efficiency regarding output versus the amount of hardware, as well as longevity.  Here are two points:

1) I may be missing something, but, have you shown this method to work at all yet?  What is the frequency and speed of the "phonons"?  Are you sure that the operative tugs on your string are really phonons?

2) I like the general idea, whether or not it can be accurately described as a "Bose-Einstein Condensate"  In the end, if you CAN get it to work, will that B.E.C. notion even matter?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17612 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
DaveS said: "A sweet AWE product was the KiteLab Ilwaco FlipWing, in 2008."
***What I remember is a dirty foam prototype.  How many are in use today?  What is the cost versus power output?  What is powered by your flipwing today?  Is this a real product or a delusional excuse?  How many have been sold in 8 years?  How many are still in use?

"SkySails has sold large systems.    There are many early cases."
*** Slightly changing the subject in my view.  Professor Crackpot can always sell a certain number of uneconomical systems until they all break, wear out, or prove to be uneconomical.  Either way, in my book, kite-sailing and AWE for electricity production are two different fields, though a future overlap is possible.  To my way of thinking, if you start out saying you will replace stationary electrical powerplants, then claim that boats pulled by kites fulfills that goal, you are merely making excuses, as usual, trying to "redefine" your way out of whatever arguments you start.

"Kite Sports are AWE. It's a fine start," ***Well as Joe points out, a leaf blowing in the wind, or a wandering snowflake, "is AWE", depending on how far someone wants to adjust definitions and vocabulary.  You can't power homes and industry by adjusting vocabulary, or redefining words.

"the market is a newborn baby that will grow like crazy as the tech matures." ***Not if the progress depends on your endless redefinitions as a substitute for real progress.  How many years can you still call it a "newborn baby"?  How many more years will people be content to see zero operating systems, calling this "an industry"?  I think the industry of merely talking about (often lying about it) it is (no exaggeration) a million times larger than any actual AWE-produced electical generation.

"Best job ever for eight years now, yet still feel sorry for the burn-outs :("
***Some people are at least smart enough to realize they are getting nowhere.  hint: a "job" usually involves producing something of value besides endless hot air, unless your job is HVAC.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17613 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
Correcting Doug: Typical FlipWings referenced are all made of membrane/fabric, not foam, so he must be remembering something else.

Again, rather than rely on a faulty memory, correct AWES knowledge (like what KiteLab's FLipWings actually are) is easily available by search. JoeF's amazing work and the AWES Forum proceedings are the largest troves of such knowledge, available to all.

Doug makes a good point in recalling JoeF's brilliant ability to indentify the kite principle in so many cases that a non-expert naturally overlooks. In fact, the most fundamental string-brane physics theories are very kite-like, for those able to do the homework.



On Thursday, April 16, 2015 9:45 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS said: "A sweet AWE product was the KiteLab Ilwaco FlipWing, in 2008."
***What I remember is a dirty foam prototype.  How many are in use today?  What is the cost versus power output?  What is powered by your flipwing today?  Is this a real product or a delusional excuse?  How many have been sold in 8 years?  How many are still in use?

"SkySails has sold large systems.    There are many early cases."
*** Slightly changing the subject in my view.  Professor Crackpot can always sell a certain number of uneconomical systems until they all break, wear out, or prove to be uneconomical.  Either way, in my book, kite-sailing and AWE for electricity production are two different fields, though a future overlap is possible.  To my way of thinking, if you start out saying you will replace stationary electrical powerplants, then claim that boats pulled by kites fulfills that goal, you are merely making excuses, as usual, trying to "redefine" your way out of whatever arguments you start.

"Kite Sports are AWE. It's a fine start," ***Well as Joe points out, a leaf blowing in the wind, or a wandering snowflake, "is AWE", depending on how far someone wants to adjust definitions and vocabulary.  You can't power homes and industry by adjusting vocabulary, or redefining words.

"the market is a newborn baby that will grow like crazy as the tech matures." ***Not if the progress depends on your endless redefinitions as a substitute for real progress.  How many years can you still call it a "newborn baby"?  How many more years will people be content to see zero operating systems, calling this "an industry"?  I think the industry of merely talking about (often lying about it) it is (no exaggeration) a million times larger than any actual AWE-produced electical generation.

"Best job ever for eight years now, yet still feel sorry for the burn-outs :("
***Some people are at least smart enough to realize they are getting nowhere.  hint: a "job" usually involves producing something of value besides endless hot air, unless your job is HVAC.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17614 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Making a Sonic Black Hole with a Cable Loop
Rig an ordinary cable loop suspended between two anchors. I fit it is run at a velocity faster than its internal speed of sound (somewhat slack) it will form a sonic black hole-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17615 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
OK so the flipwings of 8 years ago are fabric.  Who is using one today?  How much electricity is the best one generating?  How do they even generate electricity?  Is there one operating anywhere today?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17616 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
If the flipwing was a good product, and if your Bose Einstein concept is valid, then have you combined more than one "flipwing" to form a B.E.C.?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17617 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
kPower has a large quiver of FlipWings (aka "membrane wingmills") at the Texas AWE Encampment, and the last time we flew one was just over a week ago at the UTexas Research Campus with AE dept folks. New Tech Kites is the pipeline for future hobby versions, but we have to productize it (design for production), like KiteSat is undergoing. The SkyBow is the next product, then maybe a flipwing rig kicking-butt. Meanwhile we are also doing large kite explorations, so due patience is smart.

Sailboat tacking is of course the closest applicable similarity case to FlipWings aloft, to the domain experts. The idea is alive and well, even if the first "Golden Age of Sail" on water is past. kPower envisions a New Golden Age of Sail in the sky, and it really is a kick to build up our skills into the new engineering territory. FlipWings are part of the cool AWES tool and test mix, especially given their stellar power-to-weight performance potential.



On Thursday, April 16, 2015 10:44 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
If the flipwing was a good product, and if your Bose Einstein concept is valid, then have you combined more than one "flipwing" to form a B.E.C.?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17618 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
I forgot to give 2kiteSam credit for making the hot 3m FlipWing prototypes in current use.



On Thursday, April 16, 2015 10:59 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
If the flipwing was a good product, and if your Bose Einstein concept is valid, then have you combined more than one "flipwing" to form a B.E.C.?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17619 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
Congratulations, but I think you've adequately explained that your previous assertion that the flipwing has been a product for 8 years is false.  Sounds like nobody has bought or used one, and that none are currently in use.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17620 From: dave santos Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
No, you are still welcome to buy one, anytime, but its craft production like your hero Dan Tracy, rather than mass-production like New Tech Kite.



On Thursday, April 16, 2015 12:58 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Congratulations, but I think you've adequately explained that your previous assertion that the flipwing has been a product for 8 years is false.  Sounds like nobody has bought or used one, and that none are currently in use.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17621 From: edoishi Date: 4/16/2015
Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin
Attachments :
    I see now the photos didn't load so I will upload as attachments
    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17622 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/16/2015
    Subject: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

    This topic invites collecting notes on rocket launching AWES. 

    In forum we have some scattered notes on launching kited wings from some tight places. 

    Anticipated is a more comprehensive coverage of special scenes where rocket launching of an AWES wing set seems to be a good solution.  Detailed solutions may arrive to the topic thread. 

    =====================


    Start: 

    Kite apparatus

    John Sylvester Wheelwright
    of Tonbridge, England

    Patent number: 2386762
    Filing date: Oct 5, 1942
    Issue date: Oct 16, 1945

    Click:  
    for full instruction. 
    =====================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17624 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/16/2015
    Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set
    War Kite: The 'Gibson Girl' Kites

    has some on-topic notes.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17625 From: Cleventine Date: 4/16/2015
    Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17626 From: dougselsam Date: 4/16/2015
    Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set
    sounds cool
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17627 From: Rod Read Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Instructables Terms and Conditions
    VS
    Yahoo groups Terms and Conditions

    Both serve you adverts as they want
    both allow themselves to reuse your content as they see fit
    Neither likely takes responsibility for jack sh1t

    Doug S... 1 problem ... you're not meant to do impressions or make misrepresentations of anyone


    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17628 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    More excuses for more nothingness, more distractions, more splintering of effort and attention to peripheral annoyances.  Let's just forget doing anything real, and spend all day every day analyzing each other's styles of writing, going over any and all rules that any entity purports to have authority to enforce, making our own such rules, redefining words, misapplying scientific principles to systems we will never build, repeating false press-releases as though they are fact, pretend we can patent all our ideas by blurting them out publicly, repeating the classic mistakes in wind energy on a daily basis, complaining that the patent system exists, complaining about teams raising money to waste on silly ideas, promoting those silly ideas, promising rock concerts with big stars, glorifying our heroes and calling them gods, presenting false wannabe realities, mixing fiction and fantasy with fact, discussing principles in inverse proportion to their likelihood of actually working, etc.  Have a day!  :)))
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17629 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Only Doug is in despair. Everybody gets that Rod is working hard and making progress (never mind his choice of business model). These projects are essential training, one must try or fail. Not just Rod, either; there has been steady progress worldwide in all critical AWE engineering metrics. We are the critical path to success. Doug's helpless attacks on everything but his own lack of effort are like a thief yelling "stop thief", but no one is fooled anymore. I am unable to recall a single time in over five years that Doug has been helpful to anyone, like what Rod is trying to do here.

    Bravo to Rod for doing something real. Doug, please stop crapping on everyone's threads. Instead show that you are at least trying to make an AWES concept fly, or "go quietly away".



    On Friday, April 17, 2015 8:15 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    More excuses for more nothingness, more distractions, more splintering of effort and attention to peripheral annoyances.  Let's just forget doing anything real, and spend all day every day analyzing each other's styles of writing, going over any and all rules that any entity purports to have authority to enforce, making our own such rules, redefining words, misapplying scientific principles to systems we will never build, repeating false press-releases as though they are fact, pretend we can patent all our ideas by blurting them out publicly, repeating the classic mistakes in wind energy on a daily basis, complaining that the patent system exists, complaining about teams raising money to waste on silly ideas, promoting those silly ideas, promising rock concerts with big stars, glorifying our heroes and calling them gods, presenting false wannabe realities, mixing fiction and fantasy with fact, discussing principles in inverse proportion to their likelihood of actually working, etc.  Have a day!  :)))
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17630 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Well I've maintained all along, Roddy is the only one of all the "teams" who comes close to "getting it", but he's still stuck in that common wind newbie mode of going "la la la la la" with his fingers in his ears and a smile on his face.  Beyond that, I don't see anyone on here complaining about every effort as much as the chief inquisitor, daveS.
    Pot calling the kettle while accusing the kettle of doing the calling.  Too bad daveS, I've flagged all your tricks in one sentence leaving you speechless for a day.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17631 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: stack of flappers
    OK so daveS, the fizzix phorum has ended the thread regarding your hypothetical stack of flapping kites being albert's new precipitation-based sound system.  They think it is too dumb to even discuss - I tried to defend your logic, but was rejected, partly for trying to defend your position as a mere third party.  The final word was there is already too much nonsense on the internet. 

    But meanwhile, I still find the idea worth at least looking at.  Vague ideas combined with some handwaving and happy talk are common in renewable energy.  Especially from the good professor, (due to the dandruff-encrustation of his glasses).  I'd like to see it boiled down to something we can sink our teeth into. 

    Here is what I'm wondering:  Do you have a frequency in mind that this world-changing configuration will operate at?  A size or scale for the flappers?  A method of flapping them?   How will the power be focused or timed to arrive at the bottom in synchrony?  How high can it go (length) using this method?   What about the recovery phase? Will the downward part of the flap make power, or just the upward-pulling part?  How will the power be collected at ground level? What percentage of available power will be collected? (capacity factor).  When will one bebuilt(?) - wait, "next year", right? (ahem).  Hoping to get a mental picture of this concept.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17632 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Doug,

    We can't both be such useless trolls if I in fact do a lot more AWE testing, study, and sharing than you, with a more cheerful attitude. At least you see Dan Tracy and Rod advancing, so stop whining. Lets see what you got flying in AWE, here and now, if you aspire to keep up with your heros,

    dave



    On Friday, April 17, 2015 11:50 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Well I've maintained all along, Roddy is the only one of all the "teams" who comes close to "getting it", but he's still stuck in that common wind newbie mode of going "la la la la la" with his fingers in his ears and a smile on his face.  Beyond that, I don't see anyone on here complaining about every effort as much as the chief inquisitor, daveS.
    Pot calling the kettle while accusing the kettle of doing the calling.  Too bad daveS, I've flagged all your tricks in one sentence leaving you speechless for a day.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17633 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: stack of flappers
    Doug,

    By being so ignorant, you were unable to present the physics subject properly (by citing the IOP paper, or even just knowing that a phonon is a boson, etc.), but instead blurted out your trollish "dream" to start a flame-war. It did not work.

    Go ahead and imagine what you want, but your mentor's verdict on the Physics Forum, already copied here, is a more reliable opinion- "you came to the wrong place",

    daveS



    On Friday, April 17, 2015 12:05 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    OK so daveS, the fizzix phorum has ended the thread regarding your hypothetical stack of flapping kites being albert's new precipitation-based sound system.  They think it is too dumb to even discuss - I tried to defend your logic, but was rejected, partly for trying to defend your position as a mere third party.  The final word was there is already too much nonsense on the internet. 

    But meanwhile, I still find the idea worth at least looking at.  Vague ideas combined with some handwaving and happy talk are common in renewable energy.  Especially from the good professor, (due to the dandruff-encrustation of his glasses).  I'd like to see it boiled down to something we can sink our teeth into. 

    Here is what I'm wondering:  Do you have a frequency in mind that this world-changing configuration will operate at?  A size or scale for the flappers?  A method of flapping them?   How will the power be focused or timed to arrive at the bottom in synchrony?  How high can it go (length) using this method?   What about the recovery phase? Will the downward part of the flap make power, or just the upward-pulling part?  How will the power be collected at ground level? What percentage of available power will be collected? (capacity factor).  When will one bebuilt(?) - wait, "next year", right? (ahem).  Hoping to get a mental picture of this concept.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17634 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    DaveS said "Doug, We can't both be such useless trolls if I in fact do a lot more AWE testing, study, and sharing than you,"
    ***You test ideas I discarded as unworkable back in the 1970's.  You are the troll.  I'm the hapless person walking over the bridge. 
    "with a more cheerful attitude."
    ***That depends whether you are discussing Makani, the patent system, etc., or "cheerfully" dispensing the usual false statements, misapplied science terms, and endless utter nonsense.
    "At least you see Dan Tracy and Rod advancing, so stop whining."
    ***I'll leave the whining to the whiner-in-chief, the notorious daveS
    "    Lets see what you got flying in AWE,"
    ***I demoed a stable working AWE system at the first conference.  Nobody else has demoed a stable AWE system that could possibly provide economical power, before or since
    "here and now, if you aspire to keep up with your heros," dave
    ***I'm taken back to 9th grade where we learned that "heroes" has 2 "e"s.




    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
    Well I've maintained all along, Roddy is the only one of all the "teams" who comes close to "getting it", but he's still stuck in that common wind newbie mode of going "la la la la la" with his fingers in his ears and a smile on his face.  Beyond that, I don't see anyone on here complaining about every effort as much as the chief inquisitor, daveS.
    Pot calling the kettle while accusing the kettle of doing the calling.  Too bad daveS, I've flagged all your tricks in one sentence leaving you speechless for a day.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17635 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: stack of flappers
    DaveS said: "Doug, By being so ignorant,"
    ***(this is daveS demonstrating how "cheerful" he is)
    "you were unable to present the physics subject properly (by citing the IOP paper, or even just knowing that a phonon is a boson, etc.),"
    ***I suggested you take up the discussion, but of course you don't want to have to discuss physics with anyone who can discuss it back
    "but instead blurted out your trollish "dream" to start a flame-war. It did not work."
    ***You have stolen my word "blurting", trying to be as cool as me, as usual.  You can copy me, but you will never be as cool.  :)
    "Go ahead and imagine what you want, but your mentor's verdict on the Physics Forum, already copied here, is a more reliable opinion- "you came to the wrong place"," daveS
    ***Yeah well, internet trolls like you claiming to be "cheerful" seem to have no sense of humor, but anyway, that wasn't "my mentor" (from The Simpsons), that was another guy.  I'd suggest you use all your big words to try and overcome the resistance of the fizziks phorum phreaks yourself, rather than leaving it to me to reveal so much more of what you promote beiing utter nonsense.  Sure Dave, you and Albert Einstein... mmm hmmm...
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17636 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: stack of flappers
    "Doug, By being tho ignorant, you were unable to prethent the phythicth thubject properly"
    *** hey daveS, how 'bout at least attempting to answer any of the cheerful and positive questions I posed regarding a stack of flappers?  (a 40-year-old precursor to laddermill, which is a 40-year-old precursor to SuperTurbine(R))  How can anyone envision such systems without any details?  I know you're allergic to facts, but are you also allergic to details?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17637 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Doug,

    You forget that I also flew an AWES prototype briefly at HAWPCON2009, as Joe has confirms, so stop claiming you were the only one. Nor were our small demos any final milestone. What are you doing lately, six years later? Trying to set up flame wars on the Physics Forum and getting kicked out, while everybody else has moved forward,

    daveS




    On Friday, April 17, 2015 12:50 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    DaveS said "Doug, We can't both be such useless trolls if I in fact do a lot more AWE testing, study, and sharing than you,"
    ***You test ideas I discarded as unworkable back in the 1970's.  You are the troll.  I'm the hapless person walking over the bridge. 
    "with a more cheerful attitude."
    ***That depends whether you are discussing Makani, the patent system, etc., or "cheerfully" dispensing the usual false statements, misapplied science terms, and endless utter nonsense.
    "At least you see Dan Tracy and Rod advancing, so stop whining."
    ***I'll leave the whining to the whiner-in-chief, the notorious daveS
    "    Lets see what you got flying in AWE,"
    ***I demoed a stable working AWE system at the first conference.  Nobody else has demoed a stable AWE system that could possibly provide economical power, before or since
    "here and now, if you aspire to keep up with your heros," dave
    ***I'm taken back to 9th grade where we learned that "heroes" has 2 "e"s.




    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  
    Well I've maintained all along, Roddy is the only one of all the "teams" who comes close to "getting it", but he's still stuck in that common wind newbie mode of going "la la la la la" with his fingers in his ears and a smile on his face.  Beyond that, I don't see anyone on here complaining about every effort as much as the chief inquisitor, daveS.
    Pot calling the kettle while accusing the kettle of doing the calling.  Too bad daveS, I've flagged all your tricks in one sentence leaving you speechless for a day.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17638 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: stack of flappers
    Doug,

    I would be glad to share my ideas on the Physics Forum at your special request. Just pick out any of my kite physics writings to present properly, but mind your netiquette,

    daveS



    On Friday, April 17, 2015 1:06 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    "Doug, By being tho ignorant, you were unable to prethent the phythicth thubject properly"
    *** hey daveS, how 'bout at least attempting to answer any of the cheerful and positive questions I posed regarding a stack of flappers?  (a 40-year-old precursor to laddermill, which is a 40-year-old precursor to SuperTurbine(R))  How can anyone envision such systems without any details?  I know you're allergic to facts, but are you also allergic to details?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17639 From: dougselsam Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    "Doug, You forget that I also flew an AWES prototype briefly at HAWPCON2009, as Joe has confirms, so stop claiming you were the only one."
    *** As always, you misquote me.  I said "a stable system" as in "runs unattended, still there the next day"...

    "Nor were our small demos any final milestone."
    ***The understatement of the year - Yes, quite forgettable - was it a foam flapper or a kite that actually flew for a brief moment?  A wannabe foam propeller?  Sorry, I forgot.

    "What are you doing lately, six years later?"
    *** Being misquoted several times a day by you, experiencing how "cheerful" you can be, ya know...

    "Trying to set up flame wars on the Physics Forum and getting kicked out,
    ***    There you go, misquoting and mischaracterizing, yet AGAIN!  (with no sense of humor at all) The thread on fizzyx foreskin was stopped as nonsense, due at least partly to YOU not defending your own idea on the forum.  How can I defend what even you don't understand?  Nobody was "kicked out".  "lies lies lies yeah..."

    "    while everybody else has moved forward,     daveS"
    ***     Last I saw, nobody has still built a laddermill, the original geniuses are mostly dead, the Euro teams are still trying kite-reeling, with an old picture of Magenn still being used to promote "the next conference", and I have seen ZERO forward progress from you at all, really. You call that "everybody moving forward"?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17640 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
    Doug,

    Well, yes, I was so busy making new friends at the conference (while you brooded in your van) that I only flew AWES for brief periods, but your weather balloons (designed to leak and come down in a day) did lose lift and shut you down. I had made and flown proper mini-blimps since the mid-80's, so your balloon choice seemed very naive to me, but it was your best effort, so I give you a pass. I had made a well documented cell-phone call, in public, in 2007, by AWE, while your two partial AWE demos seem to never have been electrically loaded. Again, who is more behind than that?

    Since then, kPower has run many longer looping foil sessions, even over two weeks at a time (last year at kFarm), with lots of landing and self-relaunching, and no helium dependence, so your 2009 criteria are far superseded. Your forty year old concept is seen as a dog, and kPower instead relies on Payne, who before your scrawled scheme, became the top AWE designer of that era, whose brilliant work continues relevant. Go ahead and make your laddermill prototype fly, if you think it has been wrongly ignored,

    daveS



    On Friday, April 17, 2015 1:30 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    "Doug, You forget that I also flew an AWES prototype briefly at HAWPCON2009, as Joe has confirms, so stop claiming you were the only one."
    *** As always, you misquote me.  I said "a stable system" as in "runs unattended, still there the next day"...

    "Nor were our small demos any final milestone."
    ***The understatement of the year - Yes, quite forgettable - was it a foam flapper or a kite that actually flew for a brief moment?  A wannabe foam propeller?  Sorry, I forgot.

    "What are you doing lately, six years later?"
    *** Being misquoted several times a day by you, experiencing how "cheerful" you can be, ya know...

    "Trying to set up flame wars on the Physics Forum and getting kicked out,
    ***    There you go, misquoting and mischaracterizing, yet AGAIN!  (with no sense of humor at all) The thread on fizzyx foreskin was stopped as nonsense, due at least partly to YOU not defending your own idea on the forum.  How can I defend what even you don't understand?  Nobody was "kicked out".  "lies lies lies yeah..."

    "    while everybody else has moved forward,     daveS"
    ***     Last I saw, nobody has still built a laddermill, the original geniuses are mostly dead, the Euro teams are still trying kite-reeling, with an old picture of Magenn still being used to promote "the next conference", and I have seen ZERO forward progress from you at all, really. You call that "everybody moving forward"?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17641 From: dave santos Date: 4/17/2015
    Subject: Re: Rocket Launch of AWES Wing Set
    Noting that Joe's latest find seems to finally answer where the WaterWorld scriptwriters likely got their Cody (rather than Conyne) cannon-launch concept. Joe's latest confirms the desired capability is feasible, by an ideal historic existence-proof. Keep in mind a small kite placed at altitude, like in an LLJ, can initiate cascade-launch (in stages) of larger kite units [Niagara Falls Bridge].

    Lets include ballistic methods (air cannons, catapults) with rockets here.There is if course a lot of updating to do on this topic before we master the methods. Powerful DIY water-rockets, as discussed here before, remain an option. Anyone is welcomed to do jet or ballistic launch experiments on behalf of Open AWE.

    Another use of such launches is to kill a wayward kite by snagging a line, or even harpooning the skin, in an emergency (normally pre-rigging a tagline kill is better, but sometimes impractical. A "killer kite" is another tagline method). 

    CC+ Open-AWE IP-pool
     



    On Thursday, April 16, 2015 9:40 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    sounds cool
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17642 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/18/2015
    Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin

    This Single Skin is used to lift Daisy. So I ask again a question about Daisy's own lift but in a different way. Can this kite lift several (why not 10 ) superimposed Daisy? Once Daisy is tilted is it produce enough lift to lift the next Daisy, etc.?


    PierreB
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17643 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/18/2015
    Subject: Lift , tilt and stability of rotation axis

    This Single Skin is used to lift Daisy. So I ask again a question about Daisy's own lift but in a different way. Can this kite lift several (why not 10 ) superimposed Daisy? Once Daisy is tilted is it produce enough lift to lift the next Daisy, etc.?

    By the same can a well calculated kite-lifter generate a chain of both tilted and lifting rotors which are not able to lift by themselves.

    In both two examples rotation axis is around tether(s) ,its both tilting and stability being determined by lift somewhere, while for autogyro-like rotation axis is around an axis settled in its body, not around tether, its both tilting and stability being determined by the place of the axis within the body.


    PierreB
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17644 From: Rod Read Date: 4/18/2015
    Subject: Re: Boomers: the new Single Skin

    I was certainly not lacking lift the last time I tested just the single Daisy. Planning to retrofit the old Daisy above this one.
    I'll keep you posted.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17645 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/18/2015
    Subject: Re: stack of flappers
    I Wish You More

     



    In the children's book there is a page that features a minimal kite system. 

    Title of the book:   I Wish You More.

    On the kite page:  

        "I wish you more ups than downs."