Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 17143 to 17192 Page 237 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17143 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/3/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17144 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/3/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17145 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17146 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Torque

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17147 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Torque

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17148 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17149 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17150 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17151 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17152 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17153 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17154 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17155 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17156 From: Rod Read Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17157 From: Rod Read Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17158 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17159 From: Rod Read Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: More rigid torque transmission via spaced ladder

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17160 From: Rod Read Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: crosswind cableway puller

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17161 From: dougselsam Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: side pull kite line

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17162 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17163 From: dougselsam Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17164 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17165 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17166 From: Rod Read Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17167 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17168 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: crosswind cableway puller

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17169 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17170 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: 1898 "Telodynamics" (rope-driving) Prior Art

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17171 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17172 From: Cleventine Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17173 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17174 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17175 From: Rod Read Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17176 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17177 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17178 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Hybrid Balloon-Parafoil Stratospheric Habitat

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17179 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Fw: Fwd: AWEC 2015 Call for Papers & AWESCO network

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17180 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Continuous Loop-Towing AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17181 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Bulk Density and Specific Gravity of AWES Airspace

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17182 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Fairchild Semiconductor subsidiary, Xsens, joins AWESCO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17183 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: AWESCO's PhD platoon research program

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17184 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi ||

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17185 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Thomas Van Alsenoy (AWESCO-Makani liaison)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17186 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: AWE's "Epic Fails"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17187 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Enerkite's New Flying Wing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17188 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: von Karman Turbulence and dependent Control Derivatives for AWES Eng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17189 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Re: Thomas Van Alsenoy (AWESCO-Makani liaison)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17190 From: edoishi Date: 3/13/2015
Subject: Re: Enerkite's New Flying Wing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17191 From: dave santos Date: 3/13/2015
Subject: Re: Enerkite's New Flying Wing [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17192 From: dave santos Date: 3/13/2015
Subject: Turn-rate, Slip, Skid, and Adverse Yaw of Flying Wings




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17143 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/3/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17144 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/3/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Thanks for the explain Christian.


PierreB

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17145 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
Hi Pierre, Christian & all,
In my last Daisy test, the Daisy spun held over the lifter kite line (Not inline as the lift tether under tension)

As the Daisy was rigged with a Hard inward bank angle  on the drive kites so it didn't have a good off wind performance.
As such, there was too much lift from the lift kite... This collapsed the tips inward at the top when it was left lifted fully.
The tail end of the Daisy had to be held down as seen in this video.

I've just re-rigged the drivers so the tips are held from more forward on the ladder top ring on a longer line.
This makes the sweep angle a bit more forward but also induces more twist reducing pitch at the tip.

I've added a forward large ring line to midway on the top foil of the kite. This should help launch handling... Which wasn't dreadful to begin with... but could have been easier.

One problem I find with the mix of Daisy and ladder tech (in it's current state) there are too many lines to catch on rung and crank interface parts... Assembling  the components separately with a quick join method would make more sense... For the moment though, I have found that careful handling of the collapsed ladder set and collapsed Daisy set can keep a mission tangle free.
(Hold the crank interface tubes up at the side of Daisy big ring. Fold Drivers in. Fold Daisy rings in to two under the ladder and sing set.)
It all fits together nicely like that and can easily be packed and held 1 hand.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17146 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Torque
You're absolutely right Dave S...
Its absurd to claim I (Dave S) "motivate and organise the world's political will".
You don't, but as I said, I'd be happy for you to.
Can you really still claim that your
philosophy is to promote comparative flight testing of all ideas, and let results decide winners and losers.
When you constantly try to shoot methods other than your own down in flame wars before they've hardly even had a chance to fly?
I'd love for you to come here so as we can compare systems.
You're welcome to stay here for comparative testing.
We can report in new media our AWE winning outcomes.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17147 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Torque
There is no serious contradiction between testing widely and engineering debate. Let torque be both debated and tested, rather than advocating only one of these activities. At some point will have to make fateful AWES architecture down-selects, and only debate and testing together best prepare us.
-------------------

I see a small window for torque using a Daisy. A PTO line or belt running around the inflated crown, just above the parafoils, and angled downward downwind to a groundgen, to produce steady high-speed load motion. Torque would transfer from the power kites a very short distance to a tailored groove ("necked-canopy" pulley). A large-diameter crown would make an effective inflated torque-driven bull-wheel to resist well spread-out shear forces. The open question is how stably such a rig could operate (the pulley line might badly tend to jump out of its groove). This might also be a WheelWind PTO solution. 

CC+ Open-AWE IP-Pool




On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 3:42 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17148 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
Rod,

Perhaps your rear e-bike handbrake must be applied to load up the system for a max-power reading, consistent with measuring "exercise" (thermodynamic work). The trick is to not stall rotation by applying too much load,

Christian,

Note that power-kites have bridle lines defined as A row for the LE, then B, C rows, and finally D, for the TE row (as seen in the diagram below). Its uncertain what you mean by "A line" or "B line", so its helpful to state Left or Right (Port or Starboard if moving) in relation to the human POV (one POV handedness for a power-kite, the other for a paraglider).

daveS




On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 3:26 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17149 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
haha, you really love technical jargon don't you, Dave Santos!? If you could speak only in acronyms, I bet you would! (joking)

I wasn't sure if Pierre knew about the technical terms for the lines on the bridle, I didn't want to sound pompous. Im sure both he and Rod would have asked for clarification if they didn't understand. 

Anyway! Perhaps you would like to discuss the topic that Pierre brought up in the first place? 

Christian 



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17150 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
Christian,

I would prefer if we all understood each other in all our languages, including the aerospace kite engineering jargon consistent with the original "expert-level" definition of the AWES Forum. Fortunately, the Net now makes languages incredibly transparent (including acronyms), and we communicate with revolutionary freedom, around the world.

Pierre should not be presumed to be better served by ambiguity in labeling kite lines, and is professionally respected by presuming he does now the parts of a power-kite (as taught in the first lesson typically). Where was your your A and B line usage publicly defined, or was it ad hoc?

As for addressing Pierre's topic, I am unable to understand it meaningfully yet. Often Pierre's technical English seems to me like a Monty Python act, rather than a clear narrative. The best I could do here was to reference your and Rod's contributions to the topic, with a helpful intent,

daveS


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 11:15 AM, "Christian Harrell christianharrell@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17151 From: Rod Read Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
OK results...
Was out between ~1:00pm and 2:45pm
Really tricky start. Time and again 1 or two kites and part of the ring would inflate.
Then the drivers would catch the wind and collapse the ring.
My impression was, They were over driving... rotating too fast for the ring.

Luckily after ages with this (and struggling to get the lifter to fly straight etc..)
One driver kite broke it's outer collected tether away from the ring...
So I decided to reset it (and others) as before inline and not advanced...
The tether line was set further out so that there was less bank angle. (the driver sets more flat to the plane of the ring)

Spun up no bother.... but just didn't look as menacingly fast.
Would spin ok whilst the back end was totally let out... so better off wind performance.

Ran it for a while .... through juice and snack break.
Tried to set gearing higher and get a bit of regeneration running.
Tricky balance of speed and regen level made minimal power in falling wind.

Still not enough gen in total for my Mum's cup of tea.

The ladder hockled on a few occasions...
Once on launch.
Once when I asked too much from the regen.
Once when the bike got so misaligned that the wheel started dragging on the ground.
The bike mounting and alignment was a pain in the butt... Must improve that method.
The post I used today was a bit higher from the ground so the bike was left MORE wobbly.

This can go a load & faster if I can hold the ring more open... Keep the bike in line.. etc.
It's going to make a stack of power eventually.
Handling was ok today despite being alone (apart from onlooking sheep and amused nearby water pumping engineers)
A line through a pulley set above the top bearing allowed me to control the lift angle whilst launching from behind or side.
Next time the pulley will be replaced by a steaked out downwind lifted line triangle.

Lift and spin

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17152 From: dave santos Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
OK, I see the topic as specifically about sustained flight control of a looping kite, but not every instance of "lift during loop" (a kite generates apparent lift continuously, even looping downward).

With regard then to Pierre's request for how to keep up a looping kite, its hereby noted that KiteLab Ilwaco has been using Pilot-Lifters in this role since 2008 (now as kPower), to avoid the cost and complications of active controls or tricky mechanisms; under the KIS engineering philosophy. Hundreds of Forum posts explore the method in theory and practice.

The classic Pilot-Lifter is a widely validated tool in kiting, and KiteLab-kPower has enjoyed consistently good results using Pilot Lifters to support its looping foils. Kite Power Solutions LLC is a leading corporate advocate of looping-foils without pilots (with kPower actively proposing they join the Open-AWE pilot club, if pure active control fails them).

------------------------
KPS website statement of its looping kite AWES-

Our system uses high performance kites 
to drive a generator based on the ground.
Much like the tip of a wind turbine 
blade, the kite flies in a circular path 
perpendicular to the wind.


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 11:38 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17153 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Christian and DaveS,


You do not indicate the same about A and B . DaveS refers in permanently changing of the angle of attack, quoting about A or B (or C or D) briddles . Christian seems refer in the two lines of steering, his answer being closer to what I asked. But now I am not sure of it due to the globally confuse answers. Probably Christian can improve his technical language and understanding to be understood by DaveS.


So I precise I refer in cyclical change of the angle of attack during loop, for a kite alone, and also for kites as soft blades within a rotor like Daisy.


PierreB

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17154 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Christian and DaveS,


You do not indicate the same about A and B . DaveS refers in permanently changing of the angle of attack, quoting about A or B (or C or D) briddles . Christian seems refer in the two lines of steering, his answer being closer to what I asked. But now I am not sure of it due to the globally confuse answers. Probably Christian can improve his technical language and understanding to be understood by DaveS.


So I precise I refer in cyclical change of the angle of attack during loop, for a kite alone, and also for kites as soft blades within a rotor like Daisy.


PierreB




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17155 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 3/4/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Some correction (not the angle of attack) in:

So I precise I refer in any cyclical change during loop, for a kite alone, and also for kites as soft blades within a rotor like Daisy; so in a passive mean to keep global lift (blabla about apparent lift and pilot kite later) .

 

PierreB

 

 

 

 

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17156 From: Rod Read Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

A ground loop track and carriage loop of kite control vehicles can be made passively autonomous in reconfiguring kite lift cyclically with regard to wind direction.
Two sided stacked kite loops can spin, launch & retract based on carriage tilt programming.

Singular soft pilot lift kites do have known stability limits.
Methods of attaching and reconfiguring live mesh lift forms with ground arrays of ready kite stock should be investigated for stability sake.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17157 From: Rod Read Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop
Lifted loop test video from yesterday.
http://youtu.be/S25JRiRY1fY
An inward tuck driver kite stuck state is shown,
suggesting either a spread tip bridle setting configuration or other method of fixing, flopping kites is needed.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17158 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/5/2015
Subject: Re: Lift during loop

Congratulations for your work on Daisy and torque-ladder Rod.


Some observations as questions:


  • (about topic) . An kite can keep its global lift and altitude (by active control, without pilot kite) by making loops. So a rotor using the same kite(s) as blades  should also be able to the same. But for it the potential of kite must be wholly used, and the radius should not be too small. And some transposition from active control towards passive control should be studied.  
  • (about video) Daisy keeps its angle when wings begin to fail: so torque-ladder is also a sort of tilted rotative-ladder-rope-tower sustenaing it. Perspectives as tower sustaining itself by rotation for AWES, for other... 

PierreB

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17159 From: Rod Read Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: More rigid torque transmission via spaced ladder
A spaced torque ladder with 3 sets of ladders is considered.
Further rigidising with anticlockwise setting is also suggested.

http://youtu.be/XnizSutsL0A
Best watch in HD as the red is a bit thin.


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17160 From: Rod Read Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: crosswind cableway puller
The following video description is of a possible crosswind cableway pulling paraglider control.   http://youtu.be/yRZe98h9HiE
Like the one I drew before on an agricultural application suggested by Dave S.

Mounted at the head of a line and lifted by the b lines... A line clamp has side horns front and back which allow lines of differentiated tensions to control paraglider (as Kite) performance.
The clamp (like a wee replacement for the normal pilot) is put to work by using a ring on it's back to tow a downwind cableway crosswind.

Say it's mounted in a circular field with the control in the centre.
With the wind at 6 o Clock.
A crosswind cableway may run from say 2 o Clock to 10 o Clock.
The paraglider is flown down to the ground at three... to have the correct cableway attached.
Runs this line until the wind shifts and it's time to do the line going from 5 - 1

Is line drag too bothersome?

Can be run grouped if we're smart about it... stacked or side to side.
Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17161 From: dougselsam Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: side pull kite line
Points I note regarding the DaveS kite with reciprocating sideways pull on a separate line:
1) I don't remember seeing it before; (which may just be me, not paying attention...)
2) It is simple;
3) It actually works.
Now I'm not going overboard on "endorsing" the concept as being an economical power solution, but given the apparent difficulty we see of getting any AWE scheme to even work at all, at least it is something that does perform as envisioned.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17162 From: dave santos Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line
Joe Hadzicki's crosswind kite cableway concept was made known to us in 2004 by Dave Lang writing in the Drachen Foundation Journal. Open-AWE Low Complexity crosswind cableway kites have since been designed and tested for over five years now (KiteLab/kPower/kFarm), first on the toy scale and then on the kite-sport scale (same kites) and work as expected. They naturally drive machinery with the power evident in the sport-kite application, and giant versions of such power-kites are validated (SkySails), with bigger versions planned. The crosswind cableway method is "endorsed" for continued testing alongside many other AWES concepts which also show great promise, and should not be overlooked.








On Friday, March 6, 2015 9:05 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17163 From: dougselsam Date: 3/6/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line
I was talking about the single kite flying in a circle with the kite string pulling sideways (up) on a second string that was attached to an air pump.  What I noticed was that the second string was actually working the pump.  Someday maybe it could pump up a tire, or more.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17164 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
BAT was featured on March 7, 2015, in Henry Ford's Innovation Nation television program.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17165 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

There was some (but not yet complete) discussion on several topics about this looping pumping, perhaps as looping-units under an arch . DaveS explained also that to make continuous power the needed flywheel can be small and not too expensive thanks to short strokes.

The motion of the first rope is a little like that of a jump rope and favors keeping kinetic energy. On the other hand a small pilot kite is easily destabilized. An arch over a front of looping-units can probably be stable. How are some possibilities for automated launching and recovering?


PierreB


looping foil, pumping air  and Looping Foil in Chaotic Wind Conditions

 

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17166 From: Rod Read Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
More trite mass media blurb twaddle copy....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31300982
setting a disappointing standard in investigative journalism.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17167 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
Rod,

It was not a bad piece from the perspective of raising naive awareness of AWE, with odd clues to mine. For example, the investment group Carbon Trust now has its eye on our sector, which could soon be a big deal-


Dr. Edge, whose name is the envy of ordinary comic-book heroes, makes his entrance advocating AWE, for the  Renewable UK coalition-


The standing prediction is that ten years of steady drip-drip of AWE news in major media outlets is building an explosive potential to serious R&D. The companies being featured are not necessarily going to benefit from all the build-up. The real game goes to whoever can finally pull the sword from the AWE stone, after the better-known contenders have stalled,

daveS



On Saturday, March 7, 2015 9:13 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17168 From: dave santos Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: crosswind cableway puller
This is functionally equivalent to the power kite PTO kPower developed in recent years. With two pulleys to comprise a string whipple-tree high up on the four lines; then one can independently control all four lines while hauling loads crosswind (incl. vertically).

Once again its a design choice between maximal KIS v. seeking something even better by added complexity; with real-world testing being the final arbiter of fitness. This is no critique of Rod, under Malraux's criteria that a master must pass thru a "youthful pastiche" phase to achieve the mastery of de Exupery's "nothing left to remove" [ versus 3D printing :) ]. Rod is well on his way to mastery, on a growing foundation of direct kite experience by trying all kinds of things hands-on.


On Friday, March 6, 2015 6:44 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17169 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Re: side pull kite line

"On the other hand a small pilot kite is easily destabilized" but a big pilot kite can also limit the freedom of movement of the first rope, unless oscillations of pilot kite (or a part if it is an arch) up and down are planned.


PierreB

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17170 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: 1898 "Telodynamics" (rope-driving) Prior Art
In a rereading Flather's Rope-Driving Treatise I came across the the term "Telodynamics"*. Further search lead to Swiss Engineer C F Hirn, who coined the name for the engineering science of driving rope at high speed in a classic French text, and a second vintage treasury of mature rope-driving methods by Cassier's [Smith 1898]-


-----------------------------
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17171 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture
Aerotecture is proposed to create airborne versions of the many exciting directions that modern inflatable structures are exploring. Giant soft kites already show how flight is done iconographically in 3D, and architectural inflatables suggest major new aviation applications on even larger scales. The sky would become a habitable ocean of large art forms-



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17172 From: Cleventine Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17173 From: dave santos Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture
Ultimately, we will fly inflatable buildings into place, even though they pack down well for standard shipping. A likely method is slow-towing HTA inflatables by special tow aircraft.

I have not worked on air-blowers in AWE, seeing wind-supplied ram-air vents as the native means for low-pressure air. The air foot-pump demo was only about showing folks how simple scalable AWE can be not about wanting to pump tires as an app, as Doug imagined (let us pump up our own own bike tires).

The short-stroke pumping dynamic is more generally proposed as a possible engine of sustainable world civilization (with North Sails already planning 10MW scale parafoils to test with, well proportioned to a standard 2000ft ceiling). Such units would operate from inflatable habitats to power all needs.


On Monday, March 9, 2015 3:04 PM, "Cleventine christianharrell@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17174 From: Christian Harrell Date: 3/9/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture
Yes flying them into place would be probable, I know there will be inherent difficulties with flying a rigid inflatable structure in windy/ gusty or other than perfect conditions. I think it may be easier to count on the advancement of energy storage technology, so engineers could pump the structure on site. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage.

 Compressed air technology being only one way to store energy. By using systems like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage

we could have power on demand, so there would be no use in flying them into place fully inflated unless it was necessary. 

It all depends on the location though, the structure may need to be flown in for remote locations.


Christian 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17175 From: Rod Read Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture

2 cautionary points.
Even before we got blazing drunk, it was a mission and a half to handle thon bouncy (not bouncy floor) pub.
When we were drunk, we all hung round the bonfire outside instead. The pub was getting flattened by the wind and used a hella loud guzzly gen for the blower.

There was a famous disaster in England about 5 years ago. An inflatable maze heated up in the sun and broke free from many of its tethers. The result threw and killed people inside.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17176 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture
Yikes! Part of the "rapid evolution" is that inflatables are already trying to fly away, even full of children. This is an avant garde form of scary disaster unforeseen by nervous futurists-

 
 


On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 1:43 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17177 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Re: Rapid Evolution of Inflatable Architecture
Two more inflatables spontaneously flying in small whirlwinds, taking kids up, with nearly fatal results-


 


On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:50 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17178 From: dave santos Date: 3/10/2015
Subject: Hybrid Balloon-Parafoil Stratospheric Habitat
The World View company team* has already set a parafoil altitude record while developing an LTA "space capsule" carrying six passengers and two crew, mini-bar, lavatory, and social media at
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17179 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Fw: Fwd: AWEC 2015 Call for Papers & AWESCO network
Attachments :


  @@attachment@@
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17180 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Continuous Loop-Towing AWES
Given scaling-law constraints, how can we make a giant wind-driven bull-wheel in the sky (with consistent high load-velocity), while overcoming many specific challenges to early laddermill concepts (overly-idle downside units, weakly performing low altitude units, and complex unit-passing mechanisms)?

Consider an aero-towed rope loop many km long from the sky down to a massive generator plant on the ground. A fleet of gilder-kiteplanes would cycle from towing the loop crosswind and upward, then releasing the loop to glide back to a starting position. Loop-unit power scaling could approach or even surpass GW scale.

Flight automation of the kiteplane units would be eased by the more-deterministic (less-chaotic) dynamics of a collectively driven tether loop. Aircraft spacing would be similar or closer than individually tethered AWES. Glider units would be direct UAS derivatives of standard gliders and glider towing (including performance-gliding, hang-gliding, and paragliding unit options). A new engineering requirement is to routinize aerial tether loop gripping and release operations.

A loop-towing AWES as described naturally supports a constant load velocity, with fast responding variable loading; for optimal utility-scale electrical generation. Such Loop-Towing AWES could be retrofitted to many existing power plants, as kite hybrids or conversions, maximally leveraging existing grid infrastructure. Fleet operations would leverage the standard airport landing-and-takeoff model, and airport network infrastructure.

CC+ Open-AWE IP-Pool

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17181 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Bulk Density and Specific Gravity of AWES Airspace
To view AWES statistically on the largest planetary civilization scale, we rely on standard fundamental physics. We thus see composite "kite-matter" (airborne polymer structure) by classical abstractions like the Ideal Gas Law. Going a bit further we discover the engineering relevance of Density to aero-structures [after Kroo]. Lower density is favored foraircraft, insofar as structural strength remains adequate.

For example, jumbo jets somewhat avoid square cube law because Bulk Density falls when as the human payload unit mass remains constant. Aircraft cabin bulk density falls because of branching pressure of aisles and increased headroom before more decks can be fitted.

If you gently crush the air out of an AWES, you get its dimensionless Specific Gravity value (in relation to water as 1). Only pure UHMWPE AWES (and related polymers like PP) can have a specific gravity less than 1 (will float in water). Complex flygen kiteplanes will have a far higher specific gravity.

Density is not yet a critically predictive AWES scaling factor, even though low-density is empirically favored for best kite performance. Its a wide-open topic to characterize the entire kite farm airspace and AWES in terms of bulk and specific density, to find the optimal density balance in different wind conditions.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17182 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Fairchild Semiconductor subsidiary, Xsens, joins AWESCO
A data-mined nugget; inertial-sensing dependence in active control AWE creating a supply-chain leading to old San Jose-




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17183 From: dave santos Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: AWESCO's PhD platoon research program
Particularly interesting is SkySails strategic quest for
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17184 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/11/2015
Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi ||

The three drawings for the following document from John V. Mizzi

are in a PDF served at
http://www.energykitesystems.net/JohnVMizzi/gtdrawings.pdf


GOSSIMER  TITAN

a titan of energy

                                                            over deep water away

from congested shores

giant gossimer wings

caress the wind

offering our lifeblood


KEY CONCEPTS


* Counter-intuitive approach to implementing very large deep water offshore wind energy conversion systems by focusing on minimal life cycle costs.

* Making this work depends on consideration of all phases of system life from pre-deployment to operation and maintenance to decommissioning.

* Inherent to system design is loose subsystem coupling to permit separate optimization of subsystem parameters resulting in better overall system outcomes.  


INTRODUCTION


Evaluation of computer models should point the way to an ideal size and type for this

WECS by relating various component subsystem parameter tradeoffs. Conceptually it is a giant

system, while the airfoils are ethereal in appearance.   

The concept calls for a tethered system using two airfoils. The IP basis for this concept is US patent number 6555931 as well as US patent number 8395271. This system is designed specifically for deep water offshore deployment with the aim of minimal lifecycle cost for generation of electricity or equivalent energy as desired. While energy storage is not addressed directly, this concept is as compatible with such considerations as other WECS designs commonly considered.  

This short paper will present an overview of some preliminary ideas to be explored by appropriate models and then, if any pass muster, by physical small scale models and further evaluation.  



DESIGN SUMMARY


Gossimer Titan will be described in summary as well as by specific designs suggestions as in the attached figures.

The arguments for the use of a tethered wind energy conversion system (WECS) for deep water offshore deployment are presented in the Background section of US patent 8395271    entitled, Pass-Through PTO Mechanism for Renewable Energy Systems. Not least of these reasons is the elimination of the tower structure.

Very strong ropes of UHMWPE or aramid fibers have been manufactured now for over half a century. More current developments as offshoots of DOD or NASA projects have exceeded their performance. Current research such as the use of silica nano fibers may also contribute to improved tether and/or airfoil fabrics for Gossimer Titan.

Although not limited to generating electricity, this WECS design will be described as such in this introductory paper. One can envision a closely analogous system that primarily compresses air; this would be a natural to integrate with deeply submerged energy storage bags.

As described in patent 6555931, this is a two-airfoil design of the long-stroke (perhaps over 1000') variety. Simply put, while one airfoil is harvesting wind energy, the other can be rewound (ie.- in a parasitic mode); both airfoils are connected to a single generator. In this manner, the duty cycle of the generator is greatly enhanced above the 50% mark. The single large generator may be a candidate for a superconducting design which may not be cost-effective for one operated by a single airfoil with less than 50% duty cycle.

Note that size and weight of the mechanical and electrical devices is of little consequence to Gossimer Titan as compared to the situation inside the nacelle of a typical modern wind turbine. The parts and subsystems can be optimally configured on a floating platform for function as well as ease of service. This permits the use of lower cost materials that would surpass the weight and/or size constraints of nacelle placement.

The use of a pass-through PTO mechanism as opposed to a power drum or capstan for tether handling can either eliminate or at least simplify the gearbox.

The airfoils can be separately optimized and easily integrated with the rest of the WECS. A two section hybrid airfoil design for Gossimer Titan is suggested. It has a very large area drag section for generating pull simply “before the wind” with a separate lift airfoil section which can be an air-buoyant element. The drag section can be “opened” and “closed” directly by wind energy to facilitate the transitions from and to energy harvesting mode greatly reducing the “local” energy required at the airfoil. This “local” energy can be simply harvested locally eliminating the need for conductive tethers. Much airfoil design will depend on life-cycle cost/performance considerations.

A mechanical schematic design for anchor and floating platforms is also presented for consideration.    



SPECIFIC DESIGN SUGGESTIONS


Figure 1 shows a top view of a mechanical layout for the generating equipment (on an anchored floating platform) of Gossimer Titan. If you refer to figure 13 of patent 8395271 and the descriptive text toward the end of the Detailed Description section, you would realize that figure 1 of this document is a merging of two PT-PTO subsystems of the patent’s figure 13 to drive a single generator 138. Each PT-PTO handles one of the two hybrid airfoils. This is just a high level schematic representation, but it should describe the general intent.

Figures 2 and 3 describe the suggested airfoil design which is a hybrid pair with a lift airfoil and a separate drag airfoil. The general design avoids the problem of air abrasion encountered by smaller “high efficiency” airfoils sweeping large areas at high speeds in figure-8 patterns as used in other tethered WECS. Figure 2 shows a hybrid airfoil in its energy harvesting configuration. The drag airfoil is shown as a parachute structure of very light but reinforced canopy material with multiple canopy lines emanating from a bridle; this is a tension loaded design. The entire canopy can be permitted to rotate around the central rod to prevent canopy line  entanglement by adding a bearing at the bridle as well as at the canopy latch plate at the rod end stop. The main tether which produces the pull for the energy conversion is attached to the powered bridle winch housing The lift airfoil is a high lift/low drag shape which adds some lift to the main drag airfoil. This lift airfoil can be morphed into a hydrogen inflatable structure to keep the drag canopy out of contact with the ocean surface even in still no-wind conditions. Alternatively, occasional contact with water surface can be designed to be acceptable. The rewind motor pull force should be sufficient to keep the hybrid airfoil aloft even in a dead calm. Another function of the lift airfoil is to steer the two hybrid airfoils laterally away from each other so as to prevent touching or tangling of tethers especially as the two airfoils pass each other, one outgoing and the other incoming.   

Figure 3 shows the de-powering or “rewind” configurations of the drag airfoil.  These configurations produce low pull on the tether due to the small area crossection presented to the wind. To start this mode, the bridle is signaled to release from the bridle latch plate (one can imaging a solenoid latch release). The wind should blow the canopy forward pulling the bridle along the central rod to latch onto the canopy latch plate while the canopy flies loosely forward. At this point, the rewind motor can be engaged to rewind the main tether of this airfoil. The bridle winch is now started; this uses the locally harvested stored energy. The winch winds back the bridle winch line thereby moving the “closed” canopy back up the central rod by moving the combined bridle and attached canopy latch plate. This action keeps the canopy closed while moving it back so that the bridle now also latches onto the bridle latch plate at the winch housing. When a signal is received, the canopy latch plate is released from the bridle; the wind blows the canopy “open” to restart the energy harvesting phase as depicted in figure 2. Thus the only electrical energy expended at the airfoil is to power the unlatch “solenoids”, the signal communications receiver, and the winch moving a closed canopy a short distance. Obviously, the opening of one airfoil is coordinated with the closing of the other but the triggers may not be  simultaneous for maximizing harvested energy.

Figure 4 is a high level mechanical schematic of the various parts of the anchor system and a populated equipment platform. No attempt at actually showing the support platform shape nor the hundreds of missing details (such as waterproofing and housings) has been made. The main purpose of figure 4 is to show a possible relationship between a submerged anchor platform and a surface floating equipment platform as joined by a hollow attachment column for Gossimer Titan.

The buoyant submerged anchor platform is anchored to the sea bottom by weighted cables; alternatively the cables can be actually attached to the seabed via simple robotic mechanisms. It has floatation elements (F) to position it in a level attitude several feet below the surface of the water. A gimbal mount or spherical bearing in the center of the anchor platform is attached to the bottom end of the hollow attachment column. This attachment prevents the hollow column from moving laterally and from rotating; it is, however, permitted to tilt.

The top end of the hollow attachment column rises through a hollow platform riser  attached in some central region (not necessarily the geometric center) of the floating equipment platform. Since the equipment platform will move vertically with the tides and with swells as well as tilt with wave motion and tether pull variations, the distance between the bottom of the equipment platform and the top of the anchor platform will vary. The top distal end of the hollow attachment column is rigidly attached to a column cap (and slip ring mount) in the shape of an inverted cylindrical cup. This is able to ride on the outer surface of the platform riser due to an internal bearing sleeve attached to the column cap. The vertical travel capability should keep the column cap from hitting the top surface of the equipment platform at its lowest elevation from the seabed; as well, it should also keep the column cap from losing contact with the top of the riser at the highest platform elevation. The internal bearing sleeve also permits the equipment platform to rotate relative to the column cap (which is constrained from rotating due to its attachment to the hollow attachment column).  In this way, the equipment platform can simply rotate on the water surface to align itself with the pull forces from the airfoil attached tethers and follow the possibly shifting winds. To accommodate this relative rotation and maintain electrical attachment to equipment on the platform, slip rings mounted on the outer surface of the column cap are used with slip ring shoes which rotate with the platform and which are permitted movement along the column cap to maintain contact during rotation, vertical movement, or tilting of the equipment platform. Note that the submarine cable to off-load the electrical output is guided through the hollow attachment column and electrical connections at its top distal end are made to the slip rings. The slip ring shoes are connected to platform equipment through flexible cables.

These design suggestions are “talking points” to give some gravitas to the general concept of Gossimer Titan.  

           


John V. Mizzi, P.E.

Poughkeepsie, NY

22 FEB 2013

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17185 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Thomas Van Alsenoy (AWESCO-Makani liaison)
Noting that Makani is variously including and omitted as an AWESCO industry partner, and that Van Alsenoy is another known bridge between the two parties-



While Makani is missing from it's partner page, multiple AWESCO references like this confirm close participation. There is a clear conflict between Makani's NDA culture and open engineering science. It will be interesting to see how far each side bends-

"The PhD will focus on simulation and optimization of kites and kite farms in the atmospheric boundary layer. This shall be performed in close cooperation with the the other AWESCO PhD fellows that focus on other aspects of high-altitude wind power, in particularly with those who are based in the companies of the AWESCO network – AmpyxPower (Den Haag), Xsens (Enschede), Enerkite (Berlin), SkySails (Hamburg), Makani/Google [x] (Alameda) – during mutual exchange visits."

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17186 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: AWE's "Epic Fails"?
Several distinct "race horses" of AWES design have emerged. Most must fail, and only a few narrow design paths, mostly in niche markets, can succeed. Large-scale AWE will likely be dominated by a single general winning paradigm, just as other large scale technologies standardize over time (trains, planes, ships). Increasing design rifts between flygen and groundgen, rigid-wing and soft wing, low-complexity and high complexity, mark-off likely boundaries of winners and losers. Real winners will enjoy the benefits of the "biggest thing ever" ("replacing oil with kites"), and losers will be a "Fail", in pop usage. 

Most AWE losers will be small isolated ventures withering away quietly, but in the case of emerging AWESCO-Makani super-coalition, failure would be "epic", given so much government and academic prestige at stake, and so many millions and hired engineers poured into high-complexity flygen rigid-wing AWES bets. Watch Makani and Ampyx for spectacular public failures if their wings only crash. Open-AWE could also be an "Epic Fail", since the supposed advantage of transparent cooperative KIS-driven design movement would still fall hard; if not so spectacularly as a fancy jumbo kiteplane.

Time has run out for early AWE's "homework" phase; the real tests are beginning. Given the march of time, its increasingly impractical for one party or camp to try to "test everything", even at the toy-scale, even with unlimited funds. A major new R&D phase has begun, where all serious engineers must finally make critical design down-selects. Late down-select, even to a correct paradigm, can be just as ruinous as a premature down-select. A definitive fact remains; the vast upper wind resource is quite real, and it can be tapped. Who will do it best, and who will "Epic Fail"?



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17187 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Enerkite's New Flying Wing
We have been waiting for a close look at Enerkite's new wing prototype, and now it seems to be flying, and various details can be found here and there.

The top link shows what looks like a real flight photo, while the artist's concept below is less realistic (HAWTs too close, bridle too wide), but shows a telescoping launching pole. As disclosed, it seems to require a forward vertical surface at the nose, for greater yaw stability and control (CC+ etc). It has rigid structure, so would not fare well in a crash. The doubled winglets act as rudders, replacing earlier simpler winglets. A trade-off is the greater potential for snagging a wingtip, compared to a standard empennage like Makani or Ampyx. While the wing is highly swept it could easily "tuck" or loop completely, risking wrapping in its own bridle as shown in concept stage, so the more elaborate multi-bridle visible in the photo is more realistic.

Its worth remembering that Makani tried and failed (~2009) to make its flying wing tame enough (as predicted here), reverting to more standard airplane configuration, and now Enerkite faces much the same challenge, but at least is not burdened by flygen issues.


EnerKite



Other wing variations are seen on the Enerkite website, and its initial parafoils are revealed as FlySurfer derivatives available for purchase in several sizes-



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17188 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: von Karman Turbulence and dependent Control Derivatives for AWES Eng
Turbulence imposes peak loadings and control disturbances on AWES, as a critical design challenge. One solution approach is empirical, to fly many hours and observe and correct faults as they happen. Another approach is mathematical, to try and formalize a correctly predictive computational model. Both approaches converge to optimal designs.

Noting that previous AWES simulated wind gust assumptions have been Dryden model [EPFL] or simple "white noise", but that the von Karman model is the currently preferred formalism to determine turbulence-driven flight control derivatives (aka stability derivatives). This is the elite level of abstraction that AWESCO's Phds are hoped to resolve for us all, that the remedial math club can futz :)


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17189 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/12/2015
Subject: Re: Thomas Van Alsenoy (AWESCO-Makani liaison)
"The AWEC 2015 will be the first international conference to be organised within the Marie Skłodowska-Curie Initial Training Network AWESCO (“Airborne Wind Energy System Modelling, Control and Optimisation”). This doctoral training network is funded by the EU framework programme Horizon 2020 and the Swiss federal government with 3.4 million Euro and will be recruiting a total number of 14 PhD fellows. AWESCO is coordinated by Delft University of Technology and will run from 2015 until 2018."     http://www.nwea.nl/awec-2015-delft
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17190 From: edoishi Date: 3/13/2015
Subject: Re: Enerkite's New Flying Wing
Attachments :
    Attached is a cool photo of the inner framework of the Enerkite wing - it looks very light (and expensive) (all carbon?): 

    The 30M wing drives an 100kW system that packs into a 20 foot shipping container and uses a mast to launch. I am assuming most of the 12 1/2 ton weight is in the battery bank and the steel container itself. Due to enter the market 2017 according to the website. 

    Photo from Alex Bormann's powerpoint:
    Enerkite der fliegende Drachen der Strom produziert!

     











      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17191 From: dave santos Date: 3/13/2015
    Subject: Re: Enerkite's New Flying Wing [1 Attachment]
    Wow, that's a well-polished presentation, with a lot of good information. Whats missing is the hot comparative-competitive context, since there are quite a few teams active in this general concept space (modest-scale reelgen AWES).

    The Enerkite rigid wing is seen as evolving toward more bridling for better span-loading. Its seeming uniform section suggests low part-count and easy-repair economy is sought (at some cost to efficiency). Flying wings vitally depend on correct spanwise washout tuning to fly at top performance. I would put small fore-and-aft bridles right at wing sections, to be able to fine-tune AoA, but they may be relying on the computational model to hit the mark, which is hit-or-miss. Of course they will find the best tuning, but its sad that stealth-culture prevents everyone watching (the wing likely has already had a maiden-crash, but such events are most confidential).

    I think the future commercialization and scaling assumptions* are over optimistic (still very square-cube limited). Its a complex prediction with so many things going on, like DS boost across the wind gradient. The sling-launch is a worry, as the powerful stem will be quite a challenge, and its a complex treacherous state-space in marginal winds, where direct launch and sling-launch windows overlap. All-modes autonomy will be a real feat.

    At least Enerkite can always default to parafoils, if the flying wing tanks, or adopt a kite-quiver operational model, if forced to keep human pilots on (supervised autopiloting) duty.

    -----------
    * It seems only SkySails really knows how to think big, in the AWESCO circle. Noting NTS strangely absent from initial AWESCO PR.






    On Friday, March 13, 2015 8:48 AM, "edoishi@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17192 From: dave santos Date: 3/13/2015
    Subject: Turn-rate, Slip, Skid, and Adverse Yaw of Flying Wings
    Regarding Makani and Enerkite's flying wing designs, the long-standing critique has been a lack of balanced vertical surface. In a side-slip condition the CP shifts too far aft, so turning response is weak (turn-rate is a key performance-kite quality) and the wing can "side-stall" nose down. Long flying wings also have a lot of yaw angular inertia to damp, and want to roll-pitch turn (against Y-bridle geometry). A subtle design mistake is all it takes to make a flying wing a bad flyer.

    A more reasonable AWES flying-wing kite looks like this (PAF) RC model, with better low wind performance, less tether-drag penalty, lower wing-loading, lower AR, bigger elevons, and longer vertical stabilizers approximating the large keels seen on well-flying sleds and delta kites-



    ------------------
    Background knowledge-