Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES16009to16058 Page 215 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16009 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16010 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Landing on comet!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16011 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Alternative method in a reeling method

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16012 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: What to Draw??

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16013 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16014 From: edoishi Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: FAA conspicuity test

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16015 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16016 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: What to Draw??

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16017 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16018 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: What to Draw??

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16019 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16020 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16021 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16022 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16023 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Paper study: Optimal Cross-Wind Towing and Power Generation with

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16024 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16025 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16026 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16027 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16028 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16029 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16030 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16031 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16032 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16033 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16034 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16035 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mechani

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16036 From: Rod Read Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16037 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16038 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16039 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16040 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Kiting in Gales

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16041 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16042 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16043 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16044 From: Gordon Spilkin Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16045 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16046 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16047 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16048 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16049 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16050 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16051 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16052 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16053 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16054 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Service Animals in AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16055 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Wayne German in 2003

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16056 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16057 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16058 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
Subject: Re: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16009 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

Ok, I skim read it. You caught me. What's to be drawn?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16010 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Landing on comet!

The just announced news of "landed" is great!  Comets and kites have a huge long history together. 

Congratulations to all teams that effected today's landing on comet.   Philae lands successfully.


And the flash in the moment: *

Wing suiter flying to land on an active AWES.

Sky diver lands on active AWES. 

Powered aircraft lands on active AWES. 

Hang glider lands on active AWES. 

Parachutist lands on active AWES. 

Person or goods without any wing lands on AWES. They might have come from an aircraft, a cliff, another kite system, etc. 

Purposes of landing on AWES could be multitude: fun, maintenance, stop runaway, adventure, control, ...

*​License:  ​
CC+ 4.x BY NC+ SA  AWE IP Pool **
** attribution proposed to standardize Open-AWE cooperative references: kPower, KitePowerCoop, KLG, 

~ JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16011 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Alternative method in a reeling method
This note contains some summary review of methods of reducing tension for the reel-in cost phase of reeling methods, but then adds an alternative novel method (vulnerable to prior-art critique):
  • Summary review: In reeling methods (out-and-end, Yo-Yo, pumping)  there have been several ways to reduce tether tension during the cost phase or non-production phase. For example: 
    • Change AoA to lower tension ( aloft KCU or by long-line; programmed passive aloft non-electronic mechanics could support cyclic changes; this is old art as part of means to control a wing to bring the wing home under high-wind conditions; elastics, limiters, timed-line-length changers, etc. have been used; clockworks could be used to bring on cycles of AoA changes permitting cycles of AoA changes.)
    • Stop cross-winding, and then reel in from simple down-wind position.
    • Fly wing into low-wind layer and then bring the wing home in that lower wind. 
    • Over-head fly and glide toward home with tether still attached; reel in line at the slack opportunity.
    • Alter shape of wing by any of several methods (take camber out, make wing porous, roll-up wing to reduce wing area)
    • Side slip the wing (asymmetrical result from slacking a line by aloft KSU or by long-line control from ground)
    • Slack bridle parts to flag wing (multi-lined wing permits slacking of selected lines; KSU permits remote slacking of selected lines)
    • Let anchor move downwind (ancient tactic of walking or running toward the wing to reduce line tension). Then using level ground for returning the anchor to home, if wanted; or work again at the new position (intermittent travel of goods and people might be combined with this method).  
    • Release wing from tether and glide the wing back home for reattaching to production line. This is old art of releasing wing and gliding wing back for another cycle of activity.
    • [[Please add to this review summary list. Help make the summary review comprehensive.]]

  • Alternative novel method*: Detach wing at far ground; bring wing to home by ground transport by any method for reattaching to system for another production cycle. Reel in line using only a tiny line-lifter to keep line from slapping to ground.  The essence of this method is ancient and has been described as one of the ways to stop a flying session or retrieve a wing caught in the ground or tree, etc.  That is, detach wing at far tether point; handle the wing separate from tether; rewind the tether separately; then transporting the wing to home line drum for another flight session. What is novel is the focus on deliberately letting wing down at far down-wind point and ground transporting the wing back home for another productive cycle in an AWES system.  Using the possibly equi-potential asset of level ground and using the near-ground near-calm wind scene as asset for possible low-cost fetch of a used wing is part of the attraction of the method.  Included in this instruction is the having an AWES that flies out wings in serial reach; letting the wings off at the far end of a tether loop; let those wings reach ground for ground transport back for reattaching to the working loop line.  The released wings may be set to drop like near rocks or set to parachute or glide to a downwind point; ground transport of a set of wings could bring, say 100 or 1000 wings by ground transport for attaching to the loop tether that stays flying. The driven ground generator keeps turning and turning; the reel-in part is a slacked loop tether; the system become a hybrid reel-in that is different from plain-vanilla reeling method.   
Note: When "wing" is mentioned, then a multitude of wings may be understood as option. When "tether" or "line"
is mentioned, then "tethers" or "lines" can be included as further embodiments. 
~ JoeF
  • *​License:  ​
    CC+ 4.x BY NC+ SA  AWE IP Pool **
    ** attribution proposed to standardize Open-AWE cooperative references: kPower, KitePowerCoop, KLG, AWEIA, etc.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16012 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: What to Draw??
Rod,

Perhaps the most strategic drawing would be a vast iso-array rendering from horizon-to-horizon. As noted before to you, for a vast effect, model a section that can be posed in various states and perspectives, then composited multiplied in a paint program, rather than try to compute it in one go, in 3D. Show varied WECS stages in various states of hoist, and surface runway networks with groundgen junctions (legacy powerplants as kite hybrids) pasted over dense populations (we have conceptually solved interference and runaway, so lets show the world all this power "at a glance".

The pilot kites should be small two-kite stacks (FAA red on top, and white lower) on short leaders (its misleading to outsiders to have blue pilot lines run high off the frame, when they will be small). The main kite (tilting kixel lifting-sails) mesh needs to go to about 1850ft, with the pilot layer reaching 2000ft. Thats only 150ft, but enough to damp most of the short-line instability. Pilot leaders go mesh mid-line on a tri-swivel so the always unfoul. Pilot leaders at a quad intersection will foul in a stuck state.

A quick sketch for starters, but a barn-burner rendering (the greatest-ever AWE rendering yet) to follow, would do a lot when freely published in the media under the Open-AWE label (with the commercial TMs in the mix). For my part, I will render the above manually, so we can compare and cross-pollinate versions. Pierre might also get into the game, if he wants, since his latest renderings are similar unit-cells, Perhaps his cells can mix in, to give a realistic impression of multi- and co-evolution,

daveS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16013 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: Re: Rock Kiting
Rod,

The argument is whether one can specify a serious anchor by merely looking up the rating on a table, without regard to geological data and many other overlooked variables (like system safety margins). That's not my working experience, and I stated so.

This is a valid disagreement to me. So lets just wait and see who was right in real life, rather than get emotional over speculation,

daveS

PS Note that the gates shown had as the structural design concept that the ironwork would be like mighty eagle claws buried in flowing stone, and that King Kong could come along and shake the gates and stones in the air, and they would not part. Designed as such, my PE pal, Terry Ortiz, shrugged, and sealed the drawings on the spot, without any calculation required. There was no dependence on bolts except to jig up the modules for welding into mighty claws.

However, AWES anchors are not artworks of intangible ("priceless") value, but have to meet close economic margins safely, so the structural engineers really do sweat to get it right. You and Doug's idea of how its done simply did not apply in either case. Read early forum anchor discussion based on consulting with soil geologist and civil engineer, Bob Bogar, in contrast with Doug's approach. Let the lazy be annoyed at the diligent if they want, its still better to be diligent.






On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 3:19 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16014 From: edoishi Date: 11/12/2014
Subject: FAA conspicuity test
Attachments :
    Austin, Tx

    This morning I was able to fly our two 22 M^2 Peter Lynn pilot lifters as an arch to demonstrate kPower's early adaptation of FAA conspicuity standards. The wind gusty, the air brisk, the park quiet, the city dozer just sitting there to tie on to...The photo is tranquil, the event though was an exciting and tumultuous test of a multiple-kixel-arch's inherent aggregate stability... 

    Now I box them up and send them to the northwest for further testing, including at the World Kite Museum's Technical Kite Group Meeting and for high altitude testing in association with Near Space Corp in Tillamook,OR... 

    Ed 
    cc 4.0 NC by kPower

      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16015 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    Its a "Two Cultures" problem, the uneasy relation between informal small-scale DIY hacking of AWES, and the formal large-scale multi-disciplinary industrial engineering of utility-class AWES. Expect a lot of of confusion in AWE over how these two cultures will sort out. Tech history provides the process model where a motley breed of tinkerers create a basis for a few industrialists to rapidly emerge on the enterprise-scale. Most of the tinkerers fail to socially adapt to the rapid cultural transitions, and legions of industrial workers flood into the new enterprise frameworks.

    There is a brief Utopian moment when the tinkerers and industrialists are in relative balance, and the small-scale prototype is the common object. This is the moment in AWE, before time moves on, and AWE industrialism outgrows the DIY nest. The Protean path is to be present at the beginnings as a fully actualized inventor, and to surf the many transformations all the way to the Board Rooms of the New World created. Many names come to mind - Edison, Tesla, Ford, Wright, Curtis, etc.. Many more did not master the enterprise-scale. At every step one can choose to advance industrially, or not. In the case of industrial AWE, we must form large teams of specialists (AEs, PEs, MEs, EEs, Pilots, Riggers, etc.) to meet the strict regulatory standards imposed on the big game.

    Some of us, rather than seeking great wealth, are on the industrial track based on the belief that AWE is urgently needed on a vast scale. We are not "natural" industrialists, but volunteers in a cause. Its not helpful that our backyard-oriented friends object to every professionalization in AWE, but at least there is a debate, so bystanders form their own convictions from a spectrum of opinion. It will be sad as many relationships formed in the Utopian phase are torn apart, and the ragged backyard inventor is not allowed past the security desk of giant AWE HQ, and can only gaze far above at the "upper-class". Then comes the moment when the Proteans can reach down and lift up the motely backyard crew, if they were not too offensive in the present :)

    -----------------------------------

    Notes-


     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16016 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: What to Draw??

    I think you are looking for a mesh of pilots above a mesh of lifters. Should be easy enough ish hmmmm maybe.
    Blue lines? I think you're on about the lift vector display I've used lately.
    I have to orient the lifter kites to replace the vector displays.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16017 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test [1 Attachment]
    Very impressive solo-flight Ed, you are in the big-kite league now. Nice picture too. 


    PS Please include the hand-annotated Springer AWE Book in the shipment (that Cristophe bought kPower at AWEC 2013). I will place it the WKM library collection.

    Rod, these are the current pilot-kite units, next to be flown as a standard two-kite stack unit (all COTS/TRL-9). Such units will set along the LE margins of early iso-arrays.


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:04 PM, "edoishi edoishi@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16018 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: What to Draw??
    Actually, we don't have any pilot-layer mesh defined (COTS-0). This is an open problem.

    The working solution is a tri-swivel along a mesh line (not at a vertex). The short (but not too short) leader to the pilot stack attaches to the tri-swivel. This is COTS-9, and it will not easily find a stuck-state as long as the kite cannot wrap a mesh vertex.


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:36 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16019 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

    How can any (ground) anchor be placed without regard to geology?
    This is just petty arguing.
    We're both saying the same thing berk.
    Didn't you get the clues I was into the relevance of geology?
    It's a Yes to appropriate anchoring from me.
    Meanwhile, Chill the beans until you're actually pushing limits of what's legal or you're not comfortable with your own work.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16020 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

    Is that the future you've prophesied or written?
    If only us mortals were worthy enough to understand the implications.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16021 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Rock Kiting
    Rod,

    Lets make clear that a lay-person's "regard-to-geology" is not the proper standard (hoping this is agreeable). I mean an actual engineering-geologist's report (or equivalent rigor), and did not interpret Doug's dismissive approach to include such. 

    You did not mention the other factors that also require professional standards, before one can consult the working load tables of the anchor-solution provider. I cannot make out if you are on Doug's side of the opinion spectrum, or mine, but hope you see the stark difference in approach to the engineering questions.

    Doug is unfair to suggest the professional engineering standard in anchoring AWES represents newbie helplessness. The opposite is true,

    daveS


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:53 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16022 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test

    Three of the 9m versions are sat on the floor beside me. Tested in very x light and high wind. Good fun. Steering as tested in light wind seems not the same as morse sled. So mesh average form pointing design needs a tweak to work with these.

    Nice work Ed!

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16023 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Paper study: Optimal Cross-Wind Towing and Power Generation with
    The paper was not intending to be a sorter of all prior art; the paper's focus was on a different matter. But in a short rehearsing, the paper brought up one recent teaching set of patents by Carpenter which have yet to receive full open examination for any novelty.   

    Dave Santos asked whether or not Carpenter has "current priority" for the reeling concept that so many EU teams seem to embrace.   

    My answer is that Carpenter certainly is not the first to rehearse the reeling method that involves productive phase and cost phase.
    Among priors can be the rehearsal by at least Lambro Lois of Maryland, USA, circa 1975; yet one really is invited to see the ancient awareness of the out-joy-and-in-cost method.  Carpenter shorted Lois in a short mention in the Carpenter patent; one was a non-recognition of Lois having HTA fully allowed throughout his instruction; a reader could be possibly miss the detail.

    Carpenter was short on seeing the bulk of prior art related to AoA means. And he is not originating the reel method, but studying it closely.  It would be a separate study to see what, if any, is technically novel in the Carpenter patents.
    Carpenter, H.G., “Tethered aircraft having remotely controlled angle of attack,” US Patent 5,931,416, circa 1997
    Carpenter, H.G., “Tethered aircraft system for gathering energy from wind,” US Patent 6,254,034, circa 1999
    Adding here: Carpenter, H.G., Method for locating the resultant of wind effects on tethered aircraft US 5533694 A, circa 1994

    For those skilled in technical kiting and even recreational kiting: one is constantly presented with the exciting reel-out phase where wind and wing are doing the work, and the costly reel-in phase where the pilot or agent spends energy; one enjoys the pay out, but sweats on the costly phase of bringing wings home. See my other post on November 12, 2014, that collects ways that aim to lower the cost of bringing wings back home once or in cycles.   Payne and McCutchen fully knew about the power of kites to turn shafts of generators; but they taught new ways to avoid the costly reeling-in cycles.

    Early strong AWES workers knew about the costly phase of bringing wings home; they concentrated on getting continuous electricity (or other) production from kited systems. Or they allowed only short delay moments in the working phase of generation.  It would be after the strong early AWES workers that one sees newbies revisiting the ancient cost phase of reeling-in as cyclic preambles to another production phase; they are seeing if they can get a ROI while tolerating a substantial cost phase in cycles; several in forum have pushed to forget spending investment on the reeling-in-out high-cost-in-phased method, while pushing for methods that nearly continuously produce positive usable energy; some Yo-Yo teams may figure a way to effectively reduce the cost of the non-productive phase to an extent that ROI is a happy thing; the systems that get to tiny cost in the costing phase just might get a joyful ROI in niche spaces. 

    ==================================================================================

    Self-erecting windmill

    Payne and McCutchen recited both flygen and groundgen methods. In the groundgen instructions, they recognized very many common arts of converting motion to usable energy.   The embodiments rehearsed in the patent had little delay sectors to energy production. The instruction recognized the costing of bringing a system down when needed and of launching again for productive session.  However, I get the sense from the teaching that they were onto methods that did not have the long cost phase of a long reeling to effect a cycle; rather they preferred to advance the field into short-delay oscillation methods: rocking arm (their pivoted link), cross-wind rope-pulleys using loop drive of groundgen,

    ===============
    It would be nearly unthinkable that Payne and McCutchen while focusing on continuous and very nearly continuous electromechanical generation would not have known the obvious ancient art of exciting pull while going out and the cost while reeling in; no, they focused on fresh matter of flygen and groundgen that did not face the highly substantial costing phase of ancient out-pull and in-cost kiting.  Similarly, earlier, A Van Gries also focused on continuous generation of electricity without the ancient reeling-in cost phase.  For thousands of years pilots knew that bringing the wing by winding line on a drum to home did cost energy; some would just as soon let the wing go rather than having to spend the energy to get the wing back home!  

    Payne and McCutchen ====================================
    "To absorb the power generated efficiently, the mechanism on the ground must offer a resistance that is proportional to the speed. This matching can be done electromechanically with sophisticated control gear."
    =========
    "Additionally, the glider, autogyro and parachute kites involve no control problems whose solutions are not simple, well-known and frequently applied. Control can be applied by servomotors aboard the aircraft or in a marionette fashion via lines from the ground." 
    ===========
    "; and means disposed at said grond locaton for converting the movements of said coupling means into usable energy."
    ======
    "By use of well-known transfer mechanisms the oscillatory motion of link about pin can be converted into electrical energy or dedicated to other purposes."
    ==========comment above using PAYNE AND MCCUTCHEN

    =============================
    EARLIER IN  A VAN GRIES in  GB489139 (A) ― 1938-07-20

    "It has already been proposed to arrange wind-driven machines, together with dynamos, driven thereby, on captive balloons or kites, for the purpose of making use of the high winds."  HENCE, he recognized prior art.    A Van Gries recognized both aloft generation of electricity as well as ground-based generation. A Van Gries seems to be teaching continuous generation without the costing phase of reel-in.  RATs as windwheels would operate.  "

    The energy generated by the windwheel may also be led or transmitted positively mechanically directly to the ground by means of the guy-rope."

    "A wind-driven apparatus as claimed in Claim 1, wherein a guy-rope, such as (6) is utilized directly for the power transmission or," Here, he is maintaining apparent continuous generation of useful energy. 

    ==========================END OF A VAN GRIES COMMENTING

    ==================================KUSHTO :
    Even Oliver J. Kushto focused on continuous generation in 1978 using rotational vanes to rotate a drive tether. He avoided the ancient cost of reel-in phase. US4207026  "The drive line tethers the body to the ground or to whatever it is desired the body be attached, such as a generator, transmission, or the like which will make use of the rotation of the body applied through the drive line."  

    "Drive line 18 preferably comprises a light weight hollow pipe constructed from aluminum or other light weight weather resistant material. It may also comprise polyvinyl chloride or other light weight, durable, temperature and weather variation resistant plastic or natural material."  Kushto was one of the early multi-rotor torque-focused explorers.  But my main comment hereon regards the continued avoidance of the cost phase of reeling in wings in cycles."  "FIG. 4 shows a plurality of wind turbines 30, 31, 32 and 33 on a single drive line 34. This arrangement can be used to develop more torque than a single turbine."

        Interestingly, Kushto rehearsed getting torque for groundgen from using vertical updrafts during calms:  "Those skilled in the art will appreciate that, as seen in FIG. 3, in no wind, the turbine will essentially rest vertically above universal joint 24 in position A. In this position it may turn if rising air currents or thermals are present and sufficiently strong."     Santos might use this for his interests in the equatorial updrafts.

    Note: Don't be fooled by the Kushto's drawings; he allowed any design of vanes. Hence, ST ? What say you, DougS?

     ================================= Lambros Lois     Two patents reviewed below ==================
    Lambros Lois  seemed to want to get a workaround regarding the cost phase of ancient kiting; he paired wings, so one wing would be working while the other would come home using some of the positive assets of the working wing.                  Side note: Lambros Lois allowed for LTA and HTA kited wings in his AWES: "may be bouyant in its own right or which may be carried aloft by the configuration of the wing or sail." Carpenter shorted Lois

    First-patent note: "to an electrical generator, and provision is made for adjusting the position of the wing so that when a series of wings are utilized together with an electrical generator, one wing may be retracted while at least one other wing which is positioned to catch the wind is drawn away from the generator."    Yes, strongly aiming to avoid the time period when energy was not being generated by the ancient reel-in cost phase; he knew of retraction or reeling in, and had such coupled in ways to keep generation going at all times.
         Also in first patent: "Still another object of the invention is to provide a system whereby floating wings attached to one or more connecting lines will be alternately played out
    under the influence of the wind and then drawn back while presenting a smaller effective surface to the wind.

    FIG. 8 is a view of the wing of the point where the
    process of uprighting begins at the end of retraction.
    FIG. 9 is a view of the wing similar to FIG. 8 but at
    the end of the uprighting and ready to begin a new
    power cycle.

    Second patent: Notice: " hence the amount of energy extracted, and a pulley system may be utilized in lieu of a single pass tether line.
    And, "the other end of the line is attached to an electric generator. A series of sails are utilized with one being retracted while at least one other sail is positioned to catch the wind away from the generator."

    First patent:    Apparatus for extracting energy from winds at significant height above the surface
    US 3924827 A  Filing date Apr 25, 1975
    Then next year:
    Second patent:  Apparatus for extracting energy from winds at significant height above the surface
    US 4076190 A  Filing date Mar 30, 1976

    ====================================================================end of Lambros commenting
    I must rest from this now.  Ancient reeling in and reeling out cost method was originated before 1975. But Lambros Lois was at least one of those in 1970s who fully knew of the production phase and cost phase reeling AWES method; most of those strong AWES workers were seeking ways to avoid the cost phase as they presented other AWES solutions.   Above has not covered others in that early literature; perhaps more notes from members will bring forward early reeling-method notes. 
    ~ JoeF
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16024 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    These are broad predictions based on large historical patterns; so calling it "prophesy" would be hyperbolic. 

    The references cited are well within mortal grasp. Wikipedia in particular is written to be accessible. Engineers are mortal too; so do not fear that mortals cannot meet the standards of the engineering professions; they already have.


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:57 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16025 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

    DougS comments:

    ==============================

    "Altaeros and Alaskan journalism deserve more slack on the AWES Forum than Doug allows."
    ***OK now it's "Alaskan Journalism" that is the problem?  Most of the articles we've seen lately do NOT come from Alaska.  If they did, they would simply say "There is no blimp here".  

    Besides, doesn't the mere mention of a term such as "Alaskan Journalism" open DaveS up to charges of "stereotyping"?  DaveS. used the A-word!  I'm tellin'!  Quick, call the thought-police...

    "Gipe's role in AWE is to not even have known the field existed until we pointed it out to him not long ago."
     ***Another DaveS lie: Paul flew one of my machines for a year in 2008.  During our installation we discussed airborne versions of SuperTurbine(R), which won a PopSci Invention of the Year in that same year. 

    "Complaints about Doug's public crudeness do not apply to Gipe."
    ***You had a BIG problem with Gipe: he told the truth.  Two kinds of people have a problem with such "crudeness" (honesty):
    1) DaveS whose lies are daily exposed by my "crudeness"
    2) People who have no idea what they are doing and knowledgeable wind people flag them on it.

    One person's honesty is seen by those who can't understand honesty or the truth (or wind energy in general) as "crudeness".  The crudeness is actually in the lame-ass designs promoted by the ignorant, but they would rather "call names" to the truth-tellers, as though shifting their own label to the truth-tellers can flip reality on its head.
    The reality is most "Crackpot" attempts suffer from inherent "crudeness" (which is why they don't work), and those who promote the goofy ideas that don't work are the people suffering from that same "crudeness".

    "In AWE, our conventional wind pros are much better informed, with superior experience."
    ***Sure like self-described "experts" such as DaveS who can't generate a single Watt no matter how hard he pretends to try.  Let's see, JoeF and daveS declare themselves as "experts", yet somehow, have no solutions, just endless talk!  Go figure!

    " ChrisC was doing megawatt-scale HAWT experiments decades ago (NASA-Boeing) and progressed to heroic M600 scale UAS research. "
    ***So what?  Your point is?  We'll see how "heroic" that effort turns out to be, won't we?

    "CoyH collects and maintains wind turbines of every size and type at the American Wind Power Museum."
    ***Oh no, not that again!  So what?  You mean the same Coy H who told you the Honeywell turbine had failed at the first decent wind (which I had already predicted), while you maintained it was a good product?  When you proved your 100% ignorance beyond a doubt and for all time?  Now you're rambling again.  Your point is?  Coy Harris exists, therefore...?

    "Now we have e-kite working directly in AWE, after extended careers in large scale EU turbines. These "real wind experts" do not support Doug's opinions."
    ***Reality supports my opinions, and my opinion is there is almost ZERO serious effort in AWE and almost ZERO people involved who have a clue.
    ZERO AWE-generated Watts, at any given moment, across the entire world, is the result.

    "At least Doug will never be smeared by the lowest standard of profane insults he has uniquely represents in AWE, nor be censored in his technical opinions."
    *** Hay Dave, you made a typo. - "
    he has uniquely represents" - I'm calling the police again...

    "He will only be challenged on factual grounds and reminded of his past claims just as often as considered relevant to his ongoing attacks on other players."
    ***I told you years ago nobody knew what they were doing and nobody would have any success at this rate.   So far I have been proven correct.
    You remain in denial.

    "When he has positive engineering ideas to share, he will be applauded."
    ***Nobody in their right mind would share their best ideas with people whose stated goal is to spoil all legitimate attempts to protect IP.  You will remain in the dark as long as that is your goal - nobody who knows anything will confide in you.

    "Since I invited Doug into the AWES Forum, I undertake the large job to correct his misrepresentations for the record, and defend those he unfairly attacks."
    ***Ironic that my main job here, since then, has been flagging your daily lies, often compounded, with many interdependent lies in the same sentence.  Also weird that your new theme is that "you invited me", so you can once again avoid any salient issue by now "apologizing" to those across the world for your "mistake" of telling me about this Yahoo group.  We in wind energy have been using Yahoo groups since they first started.

    "In the current case, of Altaeros having to juggle multiple government agencies and strict regulations (FAA, State of Alaska, City of Fairbanks, etc), novel engineering challenges, and brutal seasonal conditions five thousand miles from their MIT base; all easily explaining a slightly delayed AE testing calendar."

    ***That is EXACTLY the excuse-driven "Professor Crackpot Syndrome", I've been trying to explain, to deaf ears.  Issuing lying press-releases promising deployment in remote areas is the professor's typical first (bad) move.  Not correcting those press-releases as they realize they are not ready to deploy is typical step 2.  Then people like DaveS. can pretend to be "upset" at the "lack of understanding" rather than admitting the project never even actually emerged.  Choosing a test site for a prototype in an extremely remote location is EXACTLY what the good professor is famous for, a famous "symptom", and an example of why he never moves forward.  The good professor cannot be bothered with workable prototypes in workable locations - they must always be sabotaged by design details that miss the point, and impossible testing regimens, in impossible locations.  A first stab must be to announce deployment in the most remote location possible, ensuring plenty of ready excuses for not even deploying at all.  The key details of the project transition to the exact reasons it never happens.  The question of "Why would you choose to deploy in Alaska?" quickly turns to the excuse: "How can you expect them to deploy... in Alaska?  It's COLD there!  Don't you understand it is WINTER up there?"  Umm, yup, we understood it from the beginning, and that was why we said it was a bad idea - hello?
    Yes, yes, we sensible people knew all that, which is why we advised against it - now suddenly we who warned about such details are called ignorant as though we somehow just don't understand any of these details?  How WHACKY!  Standing reality on its head again.  A sensible effort would deploy using off-the-shelf components, in a more convenient location, and save "saving Alaska" for such time as all the bugs are worked out of the system.  What the professor is REALLY seeking is to front-load the effort with as many excuses as possible, so no matter if they don't even deploy AT ALL, (sounds unlikely but it is par for the course) they have a phalanx of built-in excuses!

    Maybe someone should check and see if David Fender ever actually deployed in FukUShiMa(n).  Odds are they never did.  If it had been successful, or even happened at all, you'd think you'd have heard about it by now.  But that would violate the rules of "Professor Crackpot":  You can ONLY have press-releases about stuff that is in the FUTURE.  You can NEVER have a press-release on something you have already DONE, because you are never going to actually DO anything!

    A level-headed person would say "Why deploy a prototype thousands of miles from your workshop and civilization?".
    The answer is, they are looking for an excuse for it to not work.

    A level-headed person would ask "Why deploy a first try in the Arctic, where the unpredictable extreme weather could easily spoil the effort?"

    The answer is, again, the subconsciously wish to front-load the effort with as many "easy-to-explain" reasons for NOT EVEN DEPLOYING AT ALL as possible.  

    Gullible people like a DaveS, who are not familiar with the "Professor Crackpot Syndrome" will then accept all the reasons for not even deploying, and not only that, will go on defending the aborted (non-) effort, endlessly accepting all the overly optimistic statements, while never experiencing the least bit of skepticsm.  This "Professor Crackpot Syndrome" is so well-entrenched, it is laughable that teams do not recognize it by now and avoid it. 

    What daveS considers "crude" (the truth) may in fact cut through the clutter and warn some astute team out there that your best shot is NOT to plan deployment as far from your workshop as physically possible, in undeveloped remote places with severe weather.  No, you want a place that is easy to access, with lots of open space, with consistent good weather and strong winds.  That is why everyone from Richard Branson, to Scaled Compsites, to Edwards Airforce Base, to me, are all located in the high desert (Mojave Desert) of Southern California.

    DaveS, even you noted that a regular blimp would work better - I guess that was "crude" of you to say, showing a "lack of respect" for the "credentials" of the people who ordered a blimp that uses more material, to lift less weight.  Professor Crackpot Syndrome symptom #347: "Always add an inappropriate detail, to sabotage an otherwise good idea"  Why?  You can always get a patent on bad ideas, since nobody is interested in them!  I mean, ya GOTTA have a patent, right?  (Not that I would know anything about that...)

    "By comparison, Doug is not known to be working as hard in sunny SoCal, after ten years of AWE promotion far more shrill than anyone else; and yet he is attacks everything in sight, but never his own lack of results."
    ***More typo's DaveS - "he is attacks"... I only mention this since DaveS has actually tried to make an issue of the typos of others...  hey DaveS, how many times are you going to call my statements "shrill"?  Get a new word already...  All I've said is there are some great answers out there, and nobody is pursuing them.  

    "If Doug wants more respect, he needs to get in the active game of flying prototypes to 2000ft." 
    ***I don't take my marching orders from ignorami.  Respect gets respect.  2000 feet sounds like one more P.C. built-in-excuse-to-fail-or- not-even-deploy to me.  Try working at a more reasonable height first - worry about the mile-high club once you have earned your wings and have a reliable approach.

    "He must take seriously our collective challenge of creating a new aviation class subject to every FAA requirement."
    *** "Our" challenge?  Hardly.  The challenge of AWE can only be met by serious people who have a clue.  That leaves you coughing in the dust, jumping up and down like a madman, pestering people over typos and "netiquette" and worrying if an airborne dog will eat the spotted mushrooms in your fairy-tale kite-supported city.  My opinion is you will not even play a role in AWE, let alone solve it, if AWE ever even emerges as an actual useful art.

    "He must honestly admit his own flaws before blaming everyone else who is working far harder, with far better results."
    *** So nice to be lectured on a daily basis - my new unwanted life-coach DaveS.  I admit one of my biggest faults: stopping progress to debate daveS on the internet - worthless...
    Imagine if I had all those hours back - geez louise!  makes ya think...

    ~ DougS
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16026 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

    I just don't see a dichotomy in AWES design.
    There are no absolutely declared winning SIDES in the variety of yacht, car, boat, house, pc etc... designs. There is room in an AWE future for many design forms to co-exist.
    Yes there will be guff shoddy work from ripoff merchants trying to claim AWE as their own.
    Professionalism in design doesn't stop idiots putting their shed on the side of a cliff or plonkers driving home made 1000hp golf carts down luge tracks.
    Professionalism is necessary for next level work Totally agree.
    The sooner we set the standards the better... Agreed

    Professional, some job this. I'm not paid even by myself yet, so I'll be buggered if I can be bothered putting on a suit other than boiler or survival for the moment thanks.

    When a corporate wonk wants an insurable product he can F@£€;#g well pay to get me tailored (It's a Harris Tweed Hoodie thanks)

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16027 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power

    DougS comments:

    =====================================================

    I am so tired of reading your attempts to be the Nostradamus of AWE, pretending to write the history of AWE before it has happened.  It's agonizing to witness you trying to exhibit what you think are advanced writing skills, while spewing more and more nonsense.  On and on and on.  'Look how smart I am!'  "Look at what big words I can use!"  "Whee, look at me!  I can't make even one Watt but I know EVERYTHING!"  It is all lies, just like most of the "press-releases" reliably turn out to be: untrue.  All you have to do is actually CHECK on any of them - almost all lies, almost every single time.
    I insist that you SHUT THE HECK UP with this endless nonsense, admit that you are HELPLESS to build or run anything that even shows promise as a wind energy system, let alone actually WORKS, and get out of our faces with your endless nonsense.
    If you are an "expert", let's see some evidence of that, besides you endlessly confirming your own "expert" status in an endless loop of self-glorification, without anything whatsoever to back it up.  How 'bout stop talking and start working?

    Thank you.

         Doug Selsam

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16028 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?
    Doug, 

    Thanks for the detailed reply.

    Its true, I do think Alaskan journalism's shortcomings are not a real problem, even if you pounce on its AWE reporting errors. Let Gipe publicly declare that your "rotating tower" idea was truly airborne, and not a "fantasy turbine". In any case, Joe and I have the old email trail where Gipe had to ask us what was meant by kite energy, AWE, HAWE, etc..

    Lets hope you have something flying at 2000ft soon, to better make your case,

    daveS


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:31 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16029 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    Doug,

    FYI, Nostradamus is not a role model for modern folks. I promise you not to "[attempt] to be the Nostradamus of AWE". Let "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine" be as close as anyone ever got in that role,

    daveS


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:41 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16030 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test [1 Attachment]
    As Ed describes it ... multiple-kixel-arch's inherent aggregate stability
    http://youtu.be/1E6U09QHOiY
    Added strain colouring. Single cell averaged lift shown. Varied lift and wind over whole net shown. with kites shown mounted and rotating.

    looks cool, no monologue needed

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16031 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?
    Doug you're right. (and I don't want to start sounding like the life coach...)
    Your last word was leading toward a sentence like...
    Live in the now.
    Can't wait to find out what you're up to next.

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16032 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    Did you see some of the shirts being worn by thon dudes at the esa 300M miles comet landing do? Hwoaoawh mahn!
    Thems was special good professors crackpot.
    Hardly a professional looking character among them.
    Which camp do you think people in that room would claim most affiliation to Backyard or Industrial?
    and if so... Just how big is that backyard? Would any corporation dare claim to own that comet?

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16033 From: Rod Read Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    When the comet starts evaporating...Maybe just before the lander gets flung away... is it a kite?

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16034 From: dave santos Date: 11/12/2014
    Subject: Re: Backyard v. Industrial Wind-Power
    Rod,

    The dress-code test of who is an industrialist is the wrong test, but make no mistake, any such space-shot mission control team is bona-fide industrial culture compared to the backyard DIY world, and every person in the room has to be socially competent (no angry cranks).

    The luckiest and hardest working get to play in both worlds,

    daveS


    On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 5:44 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16035 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mechani
    Ed, Rod, and Joe did great work today. Not every good day is a gen session, if only because AWE is a newborn baby. Most days are due preparation for greater things. Here's my bit- It was windy this afternoon at the Port of Ilwaco, gusting 40kt, and I was walking the dog flying the latest "storm-kite" (small parafoil with long tube tail on mil-spec line). 

    The rig first flew the week before in a 50kt gale, and looked good, but leaned left. The lean (an instability) was presumed due to handed helical flow in the surface layer (common). Today I thought the same effect was due to to a diagonal rotor off the harbor seawall causing helical flow, but moving about and flying higher revealed the left lean to be persistent, somehow inherent in the kite. What mysterious effect was causing this destabilizing turn input?

    The tail was on a Y-bridle made of twisted polyester line. The tail swivel was old and sticky with rust, resisting rotation enough to twist up the Y-bridle, since a tail is never perfectly torque-free, but acts as a weak turbine rotor. As the Y-bridle twisted up (partially, self-limited by the spreading geometry at the kite), it simultaneously untorqued-torqued both sides differentially. This slightly shortened the Y leg that twisted tighter, and lengthened the leg untwisted looser, causing the steering input. The cure for this sick kite is to replace the Y-bridle with a symmetric braided line, and service or replace the swivel. I'll let folks know how the fix flies.

    It seems that this steering effect might be used to direct a kite at will, by twisting a single line up to the kite to a twisted-line bridle. The line must be pretwisted to prime the mechanism. Even if twisting a line to transmit high power is hard, transmitting a bit of torque for a steering input is easy. A small steering force is amplified by the entire kite obeying. I bench tested the effect when I got home, and it seemed workable. Flight testing and results soon...

    CC+ BY NC+ SA Open-AWE IP Pool

    -------------

    Twist is a geometric property most of us know how to apply, and its part of the method. By luck, I lately studied topological braid theory, as remedial math, and was on lookout for kite examples (eg. If you flip quad line handles various ways (which happens), you get various braid permutations on four elements (the Wrights' quad used a weird braid, and most permutations are "fouled" states, as sailors say.). Braid theory also applies in cutting-edge fluid dynamics and is just one of many curious branches of math that kites embody-


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16036 From: Rod Read Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: FAA conspicuity test
    Darnit Darnit Damit grrr setbacks.
    (half hour ago with Peter Lynn lifter)
    My yellow 9m lifter seemed to have a left tendancy... so I started playing with bridling influences.
    Held closely it definitely seemed to be behaving like standard 4 line steering...e.g. in that
    when the rear bridle left was tugged to be shorter... the kite steered left..
    So far so good... but I decided to get smart and try this at a higher altitude.
    I tied a long loop (reaching to the ground) to the mid of the left and right back bridle lines..
    The intention was to affect steering from the ground.
    After a normal (fairly strong wind) launch with the main line I walked downwind to hold the bottom of the steering loop line. ( it was flying at around shoulder height)
    As I took hold, a surge in the wind pulled most of the kite up.. leaving me holding onto two webs of ripstop on the end of strings.
    It's going to take a bit of feeding up and fattening to get this kite ready for a Lewis winter and my brutal out of normal spec handling.
    Videos available if needed / wanted.


    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16037 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: Rock Kiting

    DougS comments hereon:

    ====================


    Hey Roddy:  Not to pour cold water specifically on your quest to find the perfect anchor in your local rock, but this substitution of mundane already-solved problems for developing cutting edge AWE solutions does not meet the requirements of any fast track development.  One has to be able to take what is known, use it, and spend your energy on what is new.  Pretending to be solving old and known issues with ready solutions available means you are stalled - stopped at a green light.  People have already solved anchoring.  The issue is what to anchor, not how to anchor.
    Imagine the good professor, claiming his wad of doggie-doo is an AWE system: "All we need ith a way to anchor it!"  In that  case, the professor needs to get out of his own way, or maybe the doggie-doo is just that, and the professor is endlessly delusional, finding a way to avoid the issue that he has nothing workable, by shifting the attention to a phantom anchoring problem.  "we've got to have thith thertified!"
    I'd say drill a hole and epoxy an eyebolt, or use a car or truck, or tie a rope around a big rock.  

    Next chapter: how to protect from corrosion:  answer: try paint.

    ~ DougS

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16038 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?

    DougS comments hereon:

    =====================


    "Joe and I have the old email trail where Gipe had to ask us what was meant by kite energy, AWE, HAWE, etc.." *** Which Joe continues to "redefine" to this day, starting with "what is a "kite"?".  You guys assume everyone knows your internal acronyms, which are mostly for your own amusement, changeable at your whim.  Gosh, I'll bet Paul thinks RAD means "rock against drugs" - how can it be that he doesn't live in your brain?

    ~ DougS

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16039 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

    DougS comments herebelow:


    It sounds like, after 5 years of "expert" status in kites and AWE, you're still, in reality, trying to master the mere flying of a kite.  Good luck!

    ~ DougS

    ========================================================

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16040 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Kiting in Gales
    When the wind blows very hard most kiters put away their kites, and the reasons are more complex than is apparent. There are multiple interacting factors to account for-

    There is a complex loss of stability caused by increased surface turbulence (higher Re regime) and a relative loss of inherent stability as power overcomes the pendulum mass (see chaotic pendulum videos). More tail is added and bridle-points are adjusted forward.

    A mismatch between the tether strength and conditions occurs, requiring changing to heavier lines, even it the kite is OK. One flies lower to avoid overpower, but the worst turbulence builds lower.

    The average flyer becomes uncomfortable in high wind and worries about kite damage or losing the kite to runaway, and gives up, even if the kite is flying OK.

    The average kite is a fair-weather device not designed for gales. Few "storm kites" exist, and we look to high speed parachutes to show that rag and string can be made strong enough for even hurricane velocities. We are learning to reinforce the bride connections and spar pockets of COTS kites for super-duty ruggedization.

    Multi-line flyers stop sweeping and park the kite in one place. The kite experiences its upper speed range parked, but accidental sweeping creates huge surge force. Everything is faster, stability is lower, so trouble happens suddenly. 

    Kite handling on the ground becomes a real trial. Mayhem happens faster, with so much more power, but the kiter's body strength is only constant, such that a far higher expertise (and stronger gear) is required to operate.

    Kite flying becomes an adventure, and the kite can become stuck in the sky, with available winching force overwhelmed (actuation saturation). Kite killers become essential.

    As we fly higher we encounter higher winds, so mastery of high wind becomes the game. Arches (staking out), meshes (porousity), tails, furling, and many other means exist to cope, but we must develop and perfect a set of methods for each AWES. It may be that we have to cope as sailors do, by constant real-time adjustments to the rigs, until the high-performance aviation technology catches up.

    There is not doubt that kiting in high winds is feasible. As mastery grows, it becomes an exciting joy to operate in stronger winds.
     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16041 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec
    Doug,

    We are not just "trying" in vain, but actually mastering kite flying. The pros who teach us mastery practice consistently, and mastery is the best competitive edge in AWES design and operations,

    daveS

    BTW- Thanks for correcting my typos, but keep in mind that its far worse to concoct fake quotes and conflate that moral abuse with ordinary typos. You could also seek out JoeF to fly the small flygen I made years ago and gave him (or pre-order an NTK KiteSat), before suggesting such personal AWES are not already working nicely. The posts that most vex you are simply the due corrections of your posted knowledge gaps in AWE, especially regarding the action taking shape at 2000ft. Its a very exciting time, but you do not seem to see it, nor are you known to be building the required kite mastery, which takes years to develop.


    On Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:17 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16042 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Re: Alaska Launches Flying Wind Turbines (they did?
    Doug,

    Gipe simply overlooked kite energy (no cryptic acronym) in his wind career, and his Makani befuddlement was quite natural.

    If you really did teach him about upper-windpower, it did not seem to register. It would surprise us all if he did step up and declare you the greatest living wind inventor, just as you claim- "Just ask Gipe", and if he furthermore affirmed the ST is no "fantasy turbine". You would have a fresh third-party endorsement for your role in wind, rather than only so forlornly toot your own horn here.

    Of course, nobody else is likely to ask him, since the claim seems so megalomaniacally preposterous, and not pertinent to our daily R&D. If you did not invoke Gipe so much, we would simply forget him; lost in our kite work,

    daveS

    BTW Chris Carlin's role at Boeing in converting a 737 into a UAS was long ago over. This is far more impressive AE experience than you seem able to credit. If you ever worked in wind at the megawatt scale (working with NASA), he was doing it long before you. Such talents are driven away from public posting when unfairly diminished, and forced to maintain contact off-Forum.




    On Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:10 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16043 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors
    AWE engineering due diligence requires us to identify failure mechanisms before accidents happen. Anchoring is a prime aspect for engineered safety. We have covered before various failure-modes, such as soil-liquefaction, but mostly skipped over corrosion, and maybe other risk factors in need of due study.

    Corrosion is a well known anchoring problem, but the solution not as simple as some think (ie. "paint"). Its a serious concern for specialist engineers. For example, electro-chemical (Galvanic) corrosion and embrittlement of hidden metallic anchor parts could easily lead to a catastrophic failures not predicted by naive designers. An inherent operational problem is the difficulty of inspecting buried structure for safety. Over time, designed strength can disappear, with no visible warning.

    Many variables are in play- soil mositure, pH, salinity, temperature, metal combinations, and so on. An interesting open question is whether the common atmospheric electrostatic potentials kites commonly experience increases galvanic corrosion risk. We may need to specify alloys to specific conditions, create grounded bypass circuits, add cathodic protection circuits, etc.. There is not short-cut: Professional engineers investigate and settle such questions, rather than dismiss them-


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16044 From: Gordon Spilkin Date: 11/13/2014
    Subject: First Message from Gordon Spilkin
    Attachments :
      I tried to send this message in my Yahoo email but the pictures would not open.  Could you post it for me?  I suggest a new topic named 'Selsam-Bolonkin'.
       
      Gordon
        @@attachment@@
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16045 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

      The doc made to text:


      Hello Guys,
      It took me almost 6 months to read through all 16,000 messages and I finally decided to join the club.
      Thank you Dave S. and Doug for the endless entertainment. Perhaps the scheme I propose will satisfy
      both of you. It combines multiple rotors and continuous operation (Doug) with cable drive and a
      support kite (Dave).


      Contrary to Doug’s claim, activating the cable drive does not impart additional drag on the system. The
      load is redistributed between the drive side and the return side of the pulley. Additional drag only
      occurs when the return side goes completely slack. To prevent this, a clutch in the drive system would
      be actuated if the return tension drops below a safe value. The lifting kite should be sized so that there
      is always tension in the return side. This setup is self-correcting because higher winds will increase the
      total tension in the cable drive while the faster turning rotors will increase the differential tension.
      In this design, the problem of scaling up the size of the drive shaft is minimized because almost all of the
      torque is in the short length between the bottom rotor and the transmission.


      In the drawings below I offer three mechanisms for changing direction of the torque so that it operates
      the cable drive. The flexible coupling can be specifically designed for operation in one direction and
      efficiencies of up to 85% can be obtained. The efficiencies of the bevel gear and the pulley system are
      higher but they both involve more weight and structural elements.


      Gordon




      ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <alexgor@optonline.net pictures would not open.  Could you post it for me?  I suggest a new topic named 'Selsam-Bolonkin'.
       
      Gordon
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16046 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace
      Hobby kites have grown in power, but so have the injuries and fatalities. Even toy kites come with detailed warnings. We really need to make safety our top design issue, since the power of our wings (ie. North/SkySails' 2MW rated 320m2 wing) is multiplying in farms) is moving faster than our safety culture. Somebody is going to get hurt if negligence prevails.

      As our AWES begin to operate in shared airspace, we pilots will be held to the same exacting standards as other pilots. This is not just essential book-knowledge, but actively maintained skills, known as Flight Proficiency. This is considered the most essential dimension of reducing accidents and ensuring aviation safety. Pilots of larger more powerful aircraft (with the most high-consequence failure-modes) must maintain tested proficiency to the highest degree in order to be the safest statistically.

      Linked below is a good AWES-needs similarity-case for modern pilot proficiency standards. Its up to the aviation-oriented AWES developers to develop equivalent AWES-specific pilot proficiency programs, under the RAD doctrine-

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16047 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec

      Doug replies hereon:    [Moderator adds the highlight on the main DaveS quotes used.]

      ==========================================

      "Doug, We are not just "trying" in vain, but actually mastering kite flying." 
      *** You've said you were an expert.  Now it sounds like you are a beginner.

      "The pros who teach us mastery practice consistently, and mastery is the best competitive edge in AWES design and operations,"
      *** OK well you've had 5 years to ask your "pros" how to fly a kite in a strong wind.  What I've been saying from day 1 is that kites are not strong enough for windfarm-level wind resources.  You've been minimizing what I've been saying.  It seems like what I've been saying is manifesting now that you are finally trying to fly a kite in a strong wind.

      "BTW- Thanks for correcting my typos, but keep in mind that its far worse to concoct fake quotes and conflate that moral abuse with ordinary typos."
      *** DaveS, I was just showing how absurd you are - you have a history of nitpicking typos.  It is juvenile, counterproductive, and off-topic to fixate on them.  I showed: 
      you have just as many typos as anyone else.  BTW, "its" above should be "it's".

      "You could also seek out JoeF to fly the small flygen I made years ago and gave him (or pre-order an NTK KiteSat), before suggesting such personal AWES are not already working nicely."
      *** OK great - why not point us to a video showing windspeed and power output?  And please, make the video:
      a) more than 2 seconds
      b) shaken, not stirred - er um I mean steady, not shaky.

      "The posts that most vex you are simply the due corrections of your posted knowledge gaps in AWE, especially regarding the action taking shape at 2000ft."
      *** You are a big talker.  The advantage of "2000 feet" is higher windspeeds at higher heights, yet you are having trouble at sea level already.  Rather than lecturing ME, why not use 2000 feet of string and show us what you got, since you say you are an expert in AWE?  I say get your stuff working at ANY height first, THEN worry about stratospheric placement and performance.

      "Its a very exciting time, but you do not seem to see it"
      *** Oh no, after many magazine articles and a couple Discovery Channel shows, I "don't see the excitement", 

      "nor are you known to be building the required kite mastery, which takes years to develop."
      *** It sounds like you have not developed any kite mastery the whole time you have been claiming to already HAVE kite mastery.  Meanwhile, kites may turn out to not even play any role whatsoever in AWE, a fact which YOU seem completely unable to even contemplate, let alone grasp.
      What if AWE is mastered and perfected and no kites are involved?  What will you do then, throw a temper tantrum?
      ~~ DougS
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16048 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin
      Dear Gordon,

      Welcome to the club :) Its an impressive feat to have read all the Forum messages, and a promising basis to come up with better AWES designs than anyone before. Sorry for all the "dead wood" in the group postings (many just never cared about those who would be faced with reading everything to catch up).

      Can't wait to see your drawings. MS .docx is not supported on all our devices, so some of us await seeing them in a more universal format (which JoeF may facilitate),

      daveS


      On Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:19 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16049 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec
      Doug,

      Maybe this famous anecdote will help you with your confusion about beginners and masters. Michelangelo, an "Old Master", at age 90+, was spotted shuffling furiously along teh streets of Florence, and was asked why he was in such a hurry. He replied that he was going to the library "to learn something about drawing". In the East, this is called "Beginner's Mind". In the West, beginner's mind is known as an inventive advantage. Also read the post about pilot proficiency, to grasp a key aspect of mastery (practice it, or it fades away).

      No I won't "throw a temper tantrum"* if you or anyone can show us a better way to do AWE. I'll be excited to test it (AWES testing is my career path). Of course, I have already identified for you "AWE [as] mastered and perfected and no kites are involved" in the form of aviation fuel savings (~5% is an industry estimate),

      daveS 

      * Surely you are most irascible voice in wind tech history...


      On Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:44 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16050 From: Joe Faust Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Novel Kite Instability and Actuation Factor (Braid Theoretic Mec
       Doug, some notes regarding your replies over DaveS' statement:
       
      1. Consider how a master is perhaps most able to review elements and see them in new ways and thereby advance his or her mastery.  Is it not so, that the more a finite human knows, then he or she might be able to see more clearly how much there is yet to know. Differently, a babe does not know that she or he does not know that which is not known.
       
      2. We have discussed even supersonic kite flying many times in the forum.  HAWPConference 2009, Wayne German discussed the topic.  It is easy to know that wings and lines and anchors are to be specified to meet intended wind environments. Scale has been respected all along in the forum. A given kite system has its happy wind range; outside its range: not happy.   Easy does it.
       
      3.  For six years I have faced the "its" challenge, but did not move me to mention the challenge. Use your best judgment as to how to correct a matter.
       
      4. The 2000 ft is a tropospheric realm.  
      ​    ​
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratosphere
      ​    2000 ft of tether for a loaded generating AWES wing set will operate much lower than 2000 ft AGL​
       
      5.
      ​ It continues to be a puzzle why you do not know about the positive successes that are recorded concerning DaveS' AWES systems; the videos and descriptions are available for very many. The links have been presented to you. Nearly two thousand pages by him on AWE weave descriptions of generating energy from kite systems. Your declared excitement might be advanced upon careful appreciation of the effective work that he and others have achieved to date.  It is disconcerting to a scholar to see you say the equivalent of "no Watt" when Watts have been generated. ​
       
      ​6. Since kite sectors of AWE are already at high perfection levels, it is a puzzle to see your prose seemingly miss the evident facts that are big and loud in the world.​ When AWE is further mastered and perfected, the tethered-wing sector of AWE will still be factually available for applications needing tethered-wing systems.

      ​~ JoeF​
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16051 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors

      DougS comments hereon:

      ===================


      DaveS, as usual, is unable to resist attempting to denigrate and counter my observation that getting mired in 1000 peripheral mundane details, such as how to anchor, when there is probably a car that can be tied to sitting nearby, will kill any project.  To do R & D you can't let little stuff like that stop you.  Can't afford to get hung up on easily-solved minor details.  Can't afford to make a mountain out of a molehill.  So you think the anchor will rust away before Roddy's experiment is finished?  Maybe if you put it in a bucket of acid...

      My point was not that there are no unknowns in anchoring, nor that there is no possibility of further development in that art.  My point was, what are you really trying to discover?  If you are mucking around in your backyard flying small kite-like assemblies, focusing on turning the question of how to anchor into the main research thrust is a distraction, and you are probably "rediscovering" or "reinventing" what is known and routine instead of pursuing your actual project.. 

      At that rate you will never develop anything new.  That is getting off-track, like Joe veering off into "dogs" or "waking up" as a valid AWE topic, which of course is when DaveS castigates me for "sadly dismissing service animals" or whatever his exact quote was, where he "sadly" attempted to "win" a "debate" by "proving" the other side said something that COULD be construed, in some severely-twisted way, to be politically-incorrect, at which point, of course, he calls "the thought police".

      Yes DaveS has valiantly showed I am "against blind people" (even though I used to teach blind people to ski) because (follow this "logic" if you can...) 1) I told Joe that dogs are not an AWE topic;
      2) Some blind people use a dog to help then get thru the day.
      See how that works?   Only one thing is important:  That DaveS seem to be "in control of everything" while he is not required to make any sense whatsoever.  So by "proving" I am "against blind people" by "dismissing service animals" DaveS shows that:
      1) I am wrong and dogs are now the main focus of wind energy
      2) I am a bad person, so therefore he must be better than me...

      Good luck DaveS the AWE "expert" with his "expert kite-flyers" keeping the world safe from any statement that could possibly be twisted in some bizarre way to resemble an issue for "the thought police".  Good thing they don't prosecute people for making no sense whatsoever.

      ~~ DougS

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16052 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin

      DougS comments hereon:

      ========================================


      Thanks Gordon.  I've considered that basic configuration many times.  It goes back to when I was in high school and my friends would always kid me about "Doug's crazy backpack-helicopter idea" which involved counter-rotating side-by-side rotors and flexible driveshafts, in a configuration resembling my Rogallo Eipper hang glider (simple control bar/weight shift).  I was disappointed when a similar configuration emerged at a larger scale as the "Tiltrotor Osprey", (wait a minute, that was MY idea!) :O....   but it remains on the list of "1000 possibilities" when it comes to AWE.  One thing to keep in mind is, when such point is reached that the rotor lift is equal to the weight, if you try to make any power, the pulley will pull the apparatus downward, out of the sky.  Bang.  Crunch.   Wah.

      Still, if you have extra lift beyond weight, it seems worth trying.  Or let's say at least fun to try - worth trying, maybe not, but who knows?  Ideally, the method of power transmission to the ground would not have the characteristic of increasing the required lift.
      :)

      Doug S.

      =======================================

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16053 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace

      DougS comments:

      ==============================


      Wind turbines are already incredibly dangerous.  I've had 18 stitches from one blade strike and I was lucky.  Could have easily lost a finger or two.  People have been killed by blades hitting them in the head.  Others fall from towers.  Or they stay ON the tower, as the tower falls.  Of course safety is important.  Add it to the list of dogs, waking up, galvanic corrosion of anchors, etc., to insure you never have time or focus to worry about making any power.

      Maybe Joe could form a list of 1000 irrelevant topics, plausibly related to AWE, to make sure if anyone accidentally gets on track, they have a list of distractions and diversions to choose from.


      ~~ DougS


      =============================

      JoeF notes:

      Relevant: more than 1000 topics of AWE:

      http://www.energykitesystems.net

      Since AWE will touch most every aspect of the world, some relevancy can be demonstrated. Priorities for workers in AWE would have an ordering chosen by each worker.  Your suggestion about waking up was not mine; but your suggestion has opened a topic that already plays in some successful AWES; the waking up of a pilot kite to wake up a large wing set for getting to work on generation of energy for useful purpose parallels the pull-out-of-bed concept that you initiated; adoption of the analogy seems to be having good effect for RAD; the mastery of the art of waking up a system and pulling out wing sets to get to work seems RAD related.    ~ JoeF


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16054 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Service Animals in AWE

      High-Tech Harness Lets You Communicate With Your Dog

        Remotely instruct the dog to lift the pilot wing to help initiate the mega-AWES?



      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16055 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Wayne German in 2003

      Wayne German in 2003 wrote:



      Tethered Airfoils: An Enabling Technology


      By Wayne German, wlgerman@verizon.net. October 22, 2003


       


      1. Overview


       


                  Occasionally, new technologies are developed that meet global needs and generate considerable revenues in the process.  Widely recognized examples are the light bulb, transistor, radio, television, computer, automobile, and airplane.  The intent of this paper is to introduce another technology, Tethered Airfoils, whose potential to generate revenue exceeds all of these.  The development, marketing, and deployment of this technology could yield the cheapest and cleanest means of: 1) electrical power generation, 2) shipping, 3) transportation, and 4) communication (radio signal relaying). 


       


                  Each of these four areas could be revolutionized by the introduction of products that incorporate Tethered Airfoils.  For the purpose of this paper, Tethered Airfoils are aerodynamically efficient inflatable kites in the shape of wings that have lift to drag ratios of ten to one or greater.  Unless stated otherwise, they are extremely light when inflated with air and lighter-than-air when inflated with helium or hydrogen.  These airfoils have on board power and autopilots for stable, remotely controllable flight.  Most importantly, they provide a means of harnessing wind power to provide the mechanical power required to generate electricity, synthesize fuel, or provide propulsion.


       


      2.  The Potentials of Tethered Airfoil Technology


       


                  The potential applications for Tethered Airfoil technology are numerous.  Some of the applications that should be possible are listed below.  The applications that could most easily be developed are listed first followed by those that would require more skill and experience.


       


        1. Wind power generators that use reciprocating airfoils to produce electricity on the ground.

        2. Water pumps that use reciprocating airfoils to pump water for irrigation.

        3. Sailing craft that have a Tethered Airfoil to tack into the wind or with the wind -- the airfoil          being held aloft by aerodynamic lift, or buoyancy (helium or hydrogen), or both.           

        4. Recreational airships that fly over water without fuel by tacking in the air while being attached by tether to submerged hydrofoils.

        5. Paraglider wings and ultralight aircraft that could use buoyant lift, and/or the methods of manufacture that are discussed in a separate paper entitled, Making Tethered Airfoils and Air Tensioners, would greatly reduce cost.

        6. Passive self-regulation of altitude using highly pressurized lighter-than-air structures.

        7. Ship and vessel propulsion assistance with minor retrofitting.

        8. Energy conserving tugs that could deploy Tethered Airfoils to pull unmodified vessels across oceans.

        9. Land Based High altitude wind power generators that use reciprocating Tethered Airfoils to tap winds as high as the jet stream to produce electricity at a generator on the ground.

        10. Sea Based wind power generators (low or high altitude) to produce electricity at a boat or barge.

        11. Synthesizing Hydrogen at Sea Using Tethered Airfoil Generators

        12. Flight without fuel over land or water by using an airfoil at lower altitude tethered to another airfoil at a higher altitude to harness the power available in the differential velocities of the two altitudes.

        13. Radio signal relaying by hovering indefinitely in the air while using excess wind to generate electricity to relay radio signals.


      3.    Conceptual Descriptions of Products Incorporating Tethered Airfoil Technology


       


        1. Wind Power Generators


       


      Wind power generating systems can be developed using reciprocating Tethered Airfoils.  Using two airfoils and a tether that passes from one airfoil through an electrical generator on the ground to the other airfoil, power could be generated if one airfoil flew at a high angle of attack (nose up) while the other flew at a low angle of attack (nose into the wind or slightly down).  The airfoil flying at a high angle of attack would have greater lift and drag, which would cause it to be blown downwind and upward while pulling the other airfoil upwind and downward.  Electricity would be generated as the cable is pulled and the generator is forced to spin.


       


      As the airfoil having the lower angle of attack approaches sufficiently close to the generator, remote control could cause it to assume a high angle of attack and cause the airfoil further downwind to assume a low angle of attack.  This would cause the upwind airfoil to fly downwind and the downwind airfoil to fly upwind.  Periodically changing the angles of attack would, therefore, cause the two airfoils to reciprocate in the sky producing power on the ground.  Between strokes, as the airfoils change their angles of attack, and as the cable changes its direction of travel, there would be a brief time when no power would be generated.  Therefore, in Tethered Airfoil wind farms the flights of all the airfoils should be synchronized so that as few as possible would change direction at the same time.  This would ensure that the power generated at the farm would be as even and continuous as possible.


       


      Note that only the pitch, or angle of attack, would have to be controlled remotely -- not the yaw and roll.  This should make the design and development straightforward.  Adjusting the tether bridle position fore and aft should provide the level of control required for this application.  The Tethered Airfoil could be designed to passively correct for yaw and roll -- much the same way that single string kites do today.


       


      A single Tethered Airfoil could produce electricity if a flywheel or external electrical power is used to winch the airfoil in on the upwind stroke.  The airfoil would produce more power on the downwind stroke flying in a high lift, high drag mode than would be required to winch it back in on the upwind stroke.


       


      The amount of power that a Tethered Airfoil could generate is not proportional to the size of the airfoil.  It is proportional to the area swept by the airfoil per unit time -- just as in wind turbines.  A small airfoil that quickly traverses a large area would generate more power.  But Tethered Airfoils could generate far more power than wind turbines because they could sweep a greater area for an equivalent cost since they would not have the cost of the tower, nor be limited to the sizes that towers can accommodate.


       


      Unlike standard wind turbines, Tethered Airfoils would not require expensive towers, specially designed low speed generators, and would not be subject to the strong vibrations that cause premature failures.  Most importantly, they could fly at higher altitudes to harness more powerful winds.  On average, over flat land, the wind is twice as powerful at every five-fold increase in altitude.  So a Tethered Airfoil flying at only 500 feet would encounter twice the wind power as a wind turbine 100 feet off the ground.  At a half mile the Tethered Airfoil would encounter more than four times as much wind power.  This effect can be greatly magnified by terrain that causes the air to be funnelled -- as is generally found at the best wind farm sites.


       


      Obviously, Tethered Airfoils that fly at high altitude would need to be assigned their own airspace a safe distance away from commercial flight paths.  They might obtain permission to fly in the restricted airspace over wilderness areas because they do not pollute or make noise.  Alternatively, the vast areas that exist offshore would provide excellent sites for both low and high altitude wind farming (as will be discussed) later.  But initially, windy rural areas would provide good lower altitude proving grounds.


       


      Inflated with helium, these Tethered Airfoils would simply float up in exceptionally calm winds.  But in places, such as Minnesota, where the winds are constant and strong close to the ground it may prove practical to develop Tethered Airfoil Generators that rely exclusively on aerodynamic lift rather than buoyant lift.  Inflated only with air, they could be developed to automatically launch from a stand when the winds blow sufficiently strong and be winched down quick enough to maintain controllable flight when the winds are exceptionally calm.


       


      While the jet stream offers the greatest potential power per unit area, it may be more practical to fly larger Tethered Airfoils at lower altitudes.  This would reduce the cost and drag of the tethers, but would require larger or more numerous airfoils to generate a like amount of power.


       


      Even in typical installations, wind power used in conjunction with hydropower or fossil fuel plants could reduce the long-term rates at which these plants use water or fuel.  These plants on the other hand, could provide backup power during periods of calm winds when these wind power generators would produce little or no power.


       


      3.2.       Water Pumps


       


      Tethered Airfoils can be used to pump water as well as to generate electricity.  The specific application of pumping water is mentioned here for three reasons.  First, it would not require a generator.  Pulling the tether could drive the pump directly.  Second, water pumps do not require a consistent power source.  If the winds cause short-term variations in the amount of water that is pumped there is no problem provided that daily or weekly quotas are met.  Third, many nations require or could benefit by the use of good cheap water pumps.


       


      Many underdeveloped nations need power to pump irrigation water.  Studies conducted in Sri Lanka, Kenya, Cape Verda, and the Sudan show that windmills can be cost effective compared with diesel engines for pumping water.  If windmills are considered cost effective, Tethered Airfoils should prove superior because they can extract power from much stronger winds and sweep through a far greater airspace.  (As mentioned previously, the power that may be generated is proportional to the area swept per unit time).


       


      3.3.       Custom Sailing Craft


       


      A lighter-than-air Tethered Airfoil and a watercraft having a small wetted surface could be tethered together to make a very fast and efficient sailing craft.  Canoes and kayaks with centerboards or catamaran hulls would make good choices.  Tethered Airfoils suitable for this purpose would need to have remotely controllable pitch and roll so that they could fly "out to the side" as well as downwind.  These Tethered Airfoils would not require remotely controllable yaw.  These airfoils could be designed (perhaps with a delta wing shape) to ensure that the Tethered Airfoil would always fly with nearly zero yaw with respect to the wind.  (The purpose for flying "out to the side" is to generate a force perpendicular to the direction of the wind just as sails do when tacking into the wind.)


       


      The Tethered Airfoils that have been discussed previously require pitch control only (nose up or down) The purpose of this control is to: 1) generate varying tether tensions by adjusting the lift and drag characteristics of these airfoils, or 2) to adjust the height of the Tethered Airfoils in the sky.  Tethered Airfoils that could be used to provide propulsion into the wind (as well as with the wind) require roll control as well.  These airfoils must be able to fly out to the side as well as overhead and downwind.  The best Tethered Airfoil for this purpose would be one that could be directed to assume a relative position in the sky with respect to a hull -- in response to remote control -- and then hold that position indefinitely without requiring power.  It appears that such control may be possible (and patentable).


       


      A Tethered Airfoil should be able to passively maintain a new relative position in the air in response to a single radio control request to change the tether bridle position, flaps, wing warping, or center of gravity.  Using this technique changing the attitude of the airfoil would cause the airfoil to select a different position in the sky.  This, in turn, would cause the tether to be pulled in a different direction -- causing a new tack to be taken.  If the airfoil could maintain this new position indefinitely after it had made these changes, it would be highly desirable, because power would only be required when changing tacks -- not to maintain the course of a tack.  Even more important, is the fact that if it could passively self-correct it's own position it would be immune to brief system power failures or shutdowns.  It would still continue to fly just as well on the same tack.


       


      Members of the Flight Research Institute have demonstrated the feasibility of water skiing upwind or downwind with a Tethered Airfoil at the Columbia River Gorge.  They also won first place in a speed sailing competition in England -- racing against craft having similar sail area.  Even though the airfoil and hydrofoil were inefficient off-the-shelf kites and skis, they won by the greatest margin of the day.


       


      While the principle of tacking into the wind with Tethered Airfoils may sound unique, it has actually been accomplished and documented as early as 1827 by G. Pocock.  (The Samoans used it even earlier.)  It appears that as soon as Orville and Wilbur Wright showed that it was possible to fly without a tether, virtually all scientific research into the applications of Tethered Airfoil flight ceased.  Back then, the only way that an operator could remotely control a Tethered Airfoil, was by applying varying tensions on additional drag-inducing cables.  The winds that kept the airfoil aloft also acted upon these control cables.  When a wind gust would cause an airfoil to start diving to one side, different tensions would result in the control cables.  Often, these different tensions would cause the airfoil to dive even more.  These airfoils often flew out of control and crashed.  What is surprising is that in 176 years nothing has changed. 


       


      To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet put an inexpensive autopilot and an aerodynamically efficient Tethered Airfoil together.  I hope to work with others to be the first to achieve this goal.  With such equipment there is no reason why Tethered Airfoils would not be every bit as stable, controllable, reliable, and useful as standard aircraft.


       


      Tethered Airfoils could provide propulsion for small boats.  Attached to the gunwales negligible listing moment would be generated.  In fact, traveling with the wind, the airfoil could help pull the hull of smaller boats out of the water, thereby reducing drag.  Motorboats, sailboats, hydrofoils, canoes, kayaks, sailboarders, skiers (both water and snow) -- all could be accommodated with a handful of different models.  Unlike sails, Tethered Airfoils need not be custom made for each boat or application.  No heavy masts, ballast, special ship design, or expensive retrofitting would be required.  Like sails on a sailboat, Tethered Airfoils could provide power for all points of tack except dead into the wind.  They would be better than sails because they would have an aerodynamically superior shape -- higher lift to drag ratios -- and therefore be able to tack much closer into the wind.  They would also have access to the stronger winds aloft.  They would have one cable, requiring one winch, and take up no deck space (mounted externally to a track on the gunwales).


       


      Over land, the available wind power doubles with every five-fold increase in altitude.  This factor can be much greater over water when the wind causes the waves to crest and the waves cause more pronounced boundary layer effects.  So Tethered Airfoils could tap much more powerful winds than sails.


       


      If a motorboat were outfitted with a Tethered Airfoil that flew at 500 feet (where the winds at sea are often three to four times as strong as at the top of most masts and towers) it could outrun most sailboats -- without engine power.  Naturally, If the winds became too strong the airfoil could be tied down or deflated.  For example, fishing fleets could race to their fishing grounds with their airfoils at high altitude and troll with their airfoils slightly overhead.


       


      Motorboats under power could use Tethered Airfoils to provide a component of thrust in the direction they wished to travel.  Suppose that a captain desired to travel east and decided to use an airfoil to help reduce fuel consumption.  Suppose further that the wind was blowing such that his Tethered Airfoil pulled strongest in a northeasterly direction.  He could accomplish his goal by directing the motors to cause an equally powerful thrust in a southeasterly direction.  If the captain wished to travel east at 20 knots, the motors would only need to propel the boat at 14 knots.  Depending on the ship and the sea conditions, this thirty percent reduction in motor propulsion speed could result in a fifty percent reduction in fuel consumption -- yet he could travel just as fast as if he had used motor power only.


       


      It is typically reported that by assisting propulsion with standard sails, fuel consumption can be reduced by a fourth.  But since Tethered Airfoils can harness winds having greater power, and since they could be much larger, Tethered Airfoils could save much more fuel.  Since Tethered Airfoils could be attached at the gunwales they could never pull the boat over -- just along.  So, unlike sails, Tethered Airfoils would never need to be furled to prevent capsizing.  Tethered Airfoils should always be able to make use of the best winds -- at altitudes where there is over four times as much power available.


       


      The Tethered Airfoils for sailing applications could be inflated with lighter-than-air gases such as helium or hydrogen so that they would simply float up in exceptionally calm winds.  Alternatively, they could be inflated with air in which case they would need to launch and land as the winds would permit.  As the winds would become strong enough, or as a boat having a propulsion source would pull, an air inflated Tethered Airfoil could be launched by letting out the tether.  To land the airfoil when desired, or in the event of exceptionally calm winds, a winch could pull the Tether back in again at a sufficient velocity to maintain stable flight.


       


      Airfoils that are inflated with air would be advantageous because they could readily be deflated and conveniently stored on board when not in use.  Also, there is additional cost and logistics involved in obtaining, storing, and transferring lighter-than-air gases.  As elegant as it would be to have lighter-than-air Tethered Airfoils pull boats, in general it would probably be more practical to use air inflated Tethered Airfoils.


       


      3.4.       Recreational Airships that Fly Over Water without Fuel


       


      As soon as Tethered Airfoils are developed that can pull hydrofoils reliably, passengers could fly in gondolas attached to airfoils rather than sail in hulls over the water.  The principles of operation would be just the same.  The only difference is that the hydrofoil would now be remotely controlled rather than the airfoil.  Such a craft should have a much smoother ride.  The tether would dampen Wave action before it was transmitted to the gondola.  In the event that the wind stopped, the gondola would simply float -- being held up by the buoyant lift of the lighter-than-air airfoil.


       


      This configuration could render a truly efficient sailing craft because a lighter-than-air airfoil could support the passengers, cargo, and all other components of the craft except for the hydrofoil that would be required for tacking.  In other words, the craft could be made very efficient by the elimination of the hull and all unnecessary water drag.  Having a high sail, very little drag, and always being "up on the hydrofoils" such a craft could sail even in the lightest of winds.  For truly high speed, the airfoil could fly at high altitudes.  For passenger comfort without cabin pressurization, the gondola could be attached to the tether a reasonable distance above the ocean.


       


      Nearly this same level of comfort and efficiency could be obtained by using Tethered Airfoils that are inflated with air.  In this case, the Tethered Airfoil and gondola would have to launch and land as the winds would permit.  But this would probably not be a very big penalty because they would land when the winds would provide little or no propulsion and when the water would be calm.   The one disadvantage in using air rather a lighter-than-air gas to inflate the airfoil is that some of the aerodynamic and hydrodynamic lift generated by the airfoil and hydrofoil would have to be used to lift the gondola and wing.  Normally, a relatively small percentage of the power would be required to lift the gondola and wing.  The vast majority of the power would still be available to provide propulsion.


       


      As the winds would start to pick up, this craft could be launched by releasing tether from a spool in the hydrofoil.  In many cases this would be sufficient to cause the gondola and wing to take to the air.  But if the winds at low altitude were insufficient, the gondola and the airfoil would float on the water downwind from the hydrofoil.  When the tether would be let out sufficiently, the tether could be winched back in briefly and strongly to cause enough tension in the tether between the hydrofoil and the airfoil to pull the airfoil into the sky.  Once in the sky, under the influence of greater wind power, the winch could stop pulling and gradually let out more tether so that the gondola and airfoil could ascend to the altitudes that would allow tacking.


       


      3.5.       Paraglider Wings and Ultralight Aircraft


       


      Tethered Airfoil construction techniques should enable the construction of high performance inflatable paraglider wings and ultralight aircraft.  Standard Paraglider wings are ram-air inflated.  This causes drag to be generated at the leading edge.  Also during flight, standard paraglider wings can easily be deformed into less efficient shapes.  Tethered Airfoils should be at least as light, but they should form much more rigid and well-defined airfoil shapes.  It should also be possible to use these techniques to make inflatable ultralight aircraft.


       


      3.6.       Passive Self-Regulation of Altitude


       


      Using the proprietary construction methods that are discussed in the paper “Making Tethered Airfoils and Air Tensioners”, highly pressurized lighter-than-air airships (airfoils, aircraft, or balloons) could be manufactured that could passively stabilize their altitudes in free flight without being restrained by tethers.  These construction methods could be used to make lighter-than-air airships that would prevent the internal gases from expanding as they rise. These would be constant volume airships.  As a consequence, if they were free to ascend or descend they would come to rest at the altitude that would have the same density as the over-all airship.  If these balloons rose higher -- perhaps due to momentary gusts -- they would be heavier than the surrounding air so they would settle back down.  Likewise, if they were lower, they would be lighter than the surrounding air so they would rise.  They would always passively return to the altitude whose density is equal to that of the airship.  In short, they would require no monitoring, control, or power to automatically self-regulate their own altitudes.  If they were in no hurry they could float to destinations downwind consuming no power.  This might be a useful plan in hauling freight inexpensively.


       


      This technique was used by NASA in the Ultra Long Duration Balloon that launched March 16, 2003, and which was designed to circumnavigate the globe for 100 days.  Interestingly, this technique has never been used to maintain the altitude of lighter-than-air man-lifting balloons or airships.


       


      To date, all lighter-than-air man-lifting balloons require continual monitoring and adjustments of altitude.  This is because the air in these balloons expand during ascent and compress during decent.  If they start upward, they continue upward at an accelerating rate, until helium is released to cause them to descend again to the desired height.  But once they start to descend they continue to descend at an accelerating rate, until ballast is released to cause them to ascend again.  These balloons continually rise and fall requiring continual releases of helium and ballast to compensate.


       


      In standard airships or blimps, the lifting gas is free to expand or compress to come to equilibrium with the surrounding air.  So as the airship descends, the gases compress.  This would cause the airship envelope to become limp were it not for ballonets.  Ballonets are special internal air pressure compensating balloons that inflate during descents to maintain a small but uniform positive pressure in the airship.  Unfortunately, a ballonet requires a fan to maintain a slight positive pressure.  The fan in turn requires a power source.  Present day airships do not regulate altitude by alternately releasing helium and ballast like balloons.  That would be too costly.  Instead, they use the aerodynamic forces of thrusters to maintain altitudes when the airship has a different density than the surrounding air.  These thrusters are used to provide an upward force when the airship is heavier than the surrounding air and a downward force when the airship is lighter.  This method requires engines that continually consume fuel.


       


      It would be better if airships were designed to withstand high internal pressures (such as up to 5 psi).  To ascend, air could be released from an internal ballonet.  The loss of this air, and the expansion of the helium that would result in the adjacent chambers, would lower the overall density of the airship, which would cause it to rise to the altitude having the same density -- and no higher.  To descend, a compressor would be required to draw air back into the ballonet.  This additional air, and the compression of the helium that would result, would cause the airship to descend to the altitude that would have the same density -- and no lower.


       


      Such an airship would never need to discard helium or ballast, or consume fuel to maintain a specific altitude.  It could also be smaller because it would not need the extra buoyancy required to lift ballast or the additional fuel required to maintain altitude.  In the course of adjusting altitude, this airship would only need to consume power when using the compressor to draw in additional air to descend.  It would require no power to maintain a specific altitude or ascend.  It could float indefinitely downwind at a specific altitude without requiring any altitude monitoring or control.


       


      3.7.       Ship and Vessel Propulsion Assistance


       


      If freighters and ocean going vessels used even relatively simple and inefficient Tethered Airfoils they could realize dramatic reductions in the costs of fuel.  When traveling the direction that the jetstream blows (eastward in the Northern Hemisphere) the vessels could pull large Tethered Airfoils into the jetstream.  Once in the jetstream, these airfoils could simply pull the vessels downwind.  A 50 percent reduction in the cost of fuel one direction on a large freighter would save hundreds of thousands of dollars annually.  Efficient Tethered Airfoils might be able to save significantly more because they could provide propulsion assistance on the return upwind trip as well.


       


      Some freighters have been designed to use metal sails to provide propulsion assistance with the wind or into the wind.  They are designed to save as much as 60 percent of the cost of the fuel.  Like all sails, these metal sails cause the vessels to list to one side when the winds blow.  Listing causes all decks and cargo bays to have sloping floors.  To prevent capsizing, the metal sails are "furled" by folding.  They require special ship designs to accommodate the masts, ballasts, and the forces that the sails generate.


       


      Tethered Airfoils in contrast could provide greater power from higher altitudes and yet cause negligible listing.  Little or no retrofitting would be required because Tethered Airfoils could pull the vessels at the same attachment points that tugs would use.  Even if these Tethered Airfoils were not lighter-than-air they could be self-launched into the apparent wind generated by these ships at sail.


       


      Between territorial waters there are no governmental bodies that regulate how high Tethered Airfoils would be allowed to fly.  As low as a ten percent reduction in the worldwide consumption of fuel by freighters would save billions of dollars annually -- not to mention the environmental benefit of reduced pollution and less global warming. 


       


      3.8.       Energy Conserving Tugs


       


      Special tugs could be designed for the express purpose of manipulating Tethered Airfoils to pull ships across oceans.  This would have the advantage that the large vessels would not have to manipulate the Tethered Airfoils directly.  All the tasks associated with providing propulsion assistance could be handled by a tug specially designed to do the job.  Tethered Airfoils suitable for this purpose would probably not have to be lighter-than-air.  The tug could sail into the wind, pulling even a heavier Tethered Airfoil into the air.  A heavier-than-air airfoil would have to fly exclusively by aerodynamic lift, but it could still land safely even in calm winds by being pulled in fast enough to ensure stable flight back down.


       


      3.9.       Land Based High Altitude Wind Power Generators


       


      Most appealing is the prospect of harnessing winds in the jetstream where the wind power is often hundreds of times greater than at the top of masts and towers.  Technical and political hurdles would have to be overcome, but as Tethered Airfoil technology matures and gains acceptance jetstream wind farming may prove practical.


       


      At each site, the local terrain and the proximity to the jetstream will determine whether it would be best to fly more airfoils at lower altitude or fewer airfoils at higher altitude.  Mountains or other land formations that funnel wind may favor lower altitudes.  One such mountain range exists in Hawaii.  This range runs perpendicular to the prevailing winds and funnels winds up and over.  (Hawaii also has expensive electricity and a state government that has recently invested millions in wind energy development in a single year.)


       


      Obviously, Tethered Airfoils that fly at high altitude would need to be assigned their own airspace.  They could be assigned airspace far from the commercial flight paths.  In rural Kansas, for example, strong constant winds at ground level would assure that the Tethered Airfoils could self-launch and self-land inflated only with air.  Alternatively, they might obtain permission to fly in the restricted airspace over wilderness areas because they do not pollute or make noise. 


       


      Many Third World countries are crossed by the jet streams of the northern and southern hemispheres.  They might desire to relinquish airspace to produce inexpensive electrical power.  If the winds at ground level are insufficient to launch these Tethered Airfoils, they could be filled with helium or hydrogen so they would always be in flight even in calm winds.


       


      (Ever since the Hindenburg blew up, people have been reluctant to use hydrogen in lighter-than-air aircraft, but it should be noted that the Hindenburg contained the hydrogen in "gold beater's skin" -- the intestines of calves beaten thin -- nothing to be compared with today's multi-layered plastic films.)


       


      A number of articles have been written about the feasibility of developing wind power generating systems that could tap the power of the jetstream.  But the systems described in these research papers consist of wind turbines mounted on large metal wings that are tethered with special power conducting cables.  The wings use the turbines as thrusters for launching and landing.  The complexity and manufacturing costs are staggering; yet the amortized costs of the electrical power generation are considered favorable (in the 7.5 - 9.5 cent per kilowatt range nearly twenty five years ago).


       


      However, it would be much simpler and less expensive to design a system that would:


       


      1)   Have an ordinary land based generator,


      2)   Have inexpensive inflatable fabrics that can be quickly deflated and stored away during periods of excessive wind,


      4)   Bounce rather than crash in an accident,


      5)   Contain virtually no costly and fragile high tech components,


      6)   Require no heavy turbines or metal cables to conduct lightning,


      7)   Never need to land during light winds,


      8)   Provide a much greater return on investment because the same costs could be used to construct larger Tethered Airfoils that could extract power from a greater area.


       


      Over much of the United States the

      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16056 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion Issue with Metallic Kite Anchors
      Doug,

      I seems you overlook that industrial standards of anchor engineering are the topic here, not backyard wind tinkering norms. Its true that you do not need to concern yourself with helping define industrial standards for AWES; much less as a pretext for undue complaint,

      daveS


      On Thursday, November 13, 2014 1:53 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16057 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: First Message from Gordon Spilkin
      Doug did not invent the tiltrotor, as he characteristically claims. Wikipedia-

      "The first design resembling modern tiltrotors was patented by George Lehberger in May 1930"


      On Thursday, November 13, 2014 1:56 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 16058 From: dave santos Date: 11/13/2014
      Subject: Re: Flight Proficiency Requirements for AWES in Shared AirSpace
      The serious AWE efforts already face the challenge of full compliance with of FAA FARs. No one is waiting on naive critics  to give the go-ahead for developing flight proficiency. The general strategy of the serious developers is to cover all the bases as early as possible. This means current testing at 2000ft, even before the final architectural down-selects emerge in extended testing.  Many of us have been flying as high as we can safely justify for some years now, and 2000ft is no big leap, just the current frontier. Its an engineering race where AWE pioneers will take what the FAA allows; never mind Doug.


      On Thursday, November 13, 2014 2:07 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com