Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES15500to15549 Page 205 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15500 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15501 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15502 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15503 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15504 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15505 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15506 From: Rod Read Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15507 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15508 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15509 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15510 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15511 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Performance Limits of Parafoil?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15512 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15513 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15514 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15515 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Why no success? CANT, WONT...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15516 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15517 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Pounding, Hammering, Smashing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15518 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15519 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Electrical Matters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15520 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15521 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15522 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15523 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Russian Kite Energy Technology

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15524 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Article by George J. Varney

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15525 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15526 From: Rod Read Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15527 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15528 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15529 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15531 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15532 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15533 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15534 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15535 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15536 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15537 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15538 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15539 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15540 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15541 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15542 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Arnold Loeb with wind driven energy system

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15544 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15545 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15546 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Active AWES nations and language challenge

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15547 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: D.U.M.B.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15548 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Active AWES nations and language challenge

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15549 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15500 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?
I have some questions about "RAD":
1) What timeline defines "rapid"?  Is anyone willing to put a number, or a date, to that?  Is there a date by which, if useful AWE is not achieved, we can say we must modify our description to "MAD" (Medium Airborne wind energy development), or "SAD" (slow airborne wind energy development)?  Considering prior art going back almost 100 years, could we call it "SSAD"?
(Super-Slow Airborne Wind Energy Development)?  Or "ESAD" (Excruciatingly Slow Airborne Wind Energy Development"?
2) Does "RAD" refer to all teams, or just one team?  Does it refer to anyone at all?
3) If only one team achieves useful AWE, soon enough to qualify for the term "rapid", is that the ONLY team that practiced "RAD"?
4) Until we see the result, is it possible to even call any effort "RAD" since we don't know if they have rapidly developed anything useful until we see the result?  Is Altaeros "rapid" with what looks like at least a year delay at this point?  Are they developing anything useful? (as one example, not to pick on them)
What teams would qualify for the description "RAD" now, and on what basis?
Does "RAD" actually exist, or is it merely a nebulous "cheer", which could turn out to be inaccurate?  Or is "RAD" just one more meaningless tagline like "lift"?
Imagine yourself at an airport, cheering on the airplanes, yelling "lift!".  So then the airplane take off and then you say "See I told you!"?
One can imagine a fan at a racetrack yelling "Go!"
Then again, one can imagine a team preparing their wheelbarrow, hoping to qualify for Formula-1 racing.  Stand there yelling "Go!" as they attach the wheel?  How 'bout yelling at a rock on the ground "Lift!" as though you could levitate it?  Or yelling "RAD" at a pile of doggie-doo?  Will that change the doggie-doo into an advanced airborne wind energy system?  Hey Joe, a "new branch" for AWE: carrying molecules to the nose for identification of odors... :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15501 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
The airfoils shown are fair approximations of high-lift low-speed airfoils. In any case, patent drawings are schematic, often omit exact forms and proportions, and can include third-party artist errors.

Its still a better AWES concept than the ST, if you want to go high. Doug sees crackpots everywhere, except in mirrors.



On Monday, October 20, 2014 8:16 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15502 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?
LAD: Leisurely Airborne Wind Energy Development
PAD: Paused Airborne Wind Energy Development
DAD: Delayed Airborne Wind Energy Development
FAD: Fossilized Airborne Wind Energy Development
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15503 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?
I came up with "RAD" (Rapid AWE Development), as an aspirational concept. In aerospace, "rapid" can mean a decade or more, but "as fast as practical" is good enough. 2018 will be the ten-year mark for RAD, and most of us expect pretty cool AWES by then.

Doug came up with MAD and SAD as his favored zeitgeist. Folks are free to choose which paradigm suits them best.


On Monday, October 20, 2014 8:43 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15504 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?
RAD remains the coolest option.

BAD comes in second ("Bodacious" AWE)




On Monday, October 20, 2014 9:50 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15505 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?
Doug, you have touched upon a proper subset of what RAD reaches; good on you! RAD reaches even further than the proper subset you mention; keep going!

We have already noted using kite systems for spicing the atmosphere with materials; the odor deal belongs to such AWES branch. And in reverse we have kite systems proposed for cleaning selected molecules out of the atmosphere; see recent discussion thread started for such.   

May your team advanced rapidly to your objectives,

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15506 From: Rod Read Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?

definitely identifying with the DAD situation
School holidays are impossible

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15507 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: RAD Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development MAD? SAD?
Lets celebrate that, despite cheap fossil fuels, AWE continues to advance, thanks to the serious efforts of "very smart people"* who care about Others and the Planet.

The AWES Forum has tracked steady increases in knowledge, projects, talent, power, and altitude over a five-year period. Subject matter experts are very excited about ongoing progress. AWE R&D is the best job ever; to make amazing kites and fly them all the time, each day better.

RAD surfs the sky as the Lark-Supreme!

--------------------------------
* MikeB's opinion


On Monday, October 20, 2014 10:12 AM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15508 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
One person said: "The airfoils shown are fair approximations of high-lift low-speed airfoils." - my point exactly - such airfoils are not used on horizontal stabilizers, indicating lack of basic knowledge to someone with an aviation background.  Does anyone know what this patent is about?  More kite-reeling?  Is there a context to the discussion thereof?  Or should we just look at the pix, shrug, and grunt?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15509 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
Doug, Leo Goldstein can read the subject patent; he cited the patent in one of his applications for patent. Others who can read Russian might be in our forum membership; if so, a translation might be placed in the forum for permanent furthering of our arts; thanks in advance for such translation.   The clues from the diagram do not settle just what exactly is said in the patent.  We have not yet any machine translation of the patent's text; our image copies have not brought us a text translation yet.  It would be neat to have someone be strong in providing translations from each major language group; the gems within various nations are invited to be made clear in our forum. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15510 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: LAD? PAD? DAD? FAD?
VLAD (Vodka-Laced Airborne Wind Energy Development)
WAD (Women's Airborne Wind Energy Development)
GLAD (Gay & Lesbian Airborne Wind Energy Development)
CLAD (Cunning Linguists' Airborne Wind Energy Development)
:)))
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15511 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Performance Limits of Parafoil?
The following is based on an apparent lack of scaling or performance barriers within the scope described. If anyone sees an overlooked limit, please advise-

How big could a working parafoil be? With modern polymers (and graphene pending), a parafoil can be as big as the atmosphere allows, and still be designed within working load-limits[1]. Since we want sweep, imagine a 3km wide (~3km2) wing in a 10km high troposphere. That's a GW wing concept based purely on scaled up TRL-9.

How fast can a parafoil go? Given enough raw wind or towing power, in principle a parafoil can go Hypersonic [2], up to the thermal limits of the material (from Nomex to tungsten). In hypothetical AWES practice, we can suppose a small multiple of Jet Stream wind velocity (as a "TSR"), or between 500-1000 kmhr. Not too shabby for free clean energy.

Key megascale uncertainties are practical handling methods and societal demand. Wubbo proposed we can engineer to our desire, rather than be prisoners of a mundane standard [3]. Its reasonable to suppose that fast giant parafoils will at least be tried.

--------------------------------------

[1] Compare with space-elevator studies, megascale trawl nets, suspension bridges, etc..

[2] Wayne German proposed hypersonic kites as feasible (2009), and NASA validated hypersonic soft-structures (1960s).

[3] Wubbo's sentiment in his Keynote at the 2011 KULeuven AWE Conference, in the context of targeting higher AWES altitudes.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15512 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
Doug overlooks that the split kite bridle [12] provides horizontal stabilization to this design, so the secondary wing depicted on the rudder is free to be a slow-speed high-camber version. He also overlooks that wing roots only might be depicted, and not at all represent the set of airfoil sections a final design might use (with wash-out toward the tips). 

This is a schematic, not a construction plan. The objection is not even the inventive heart of the patent, but a quite secondary detail. 


On Monday, October 20, 2014 11:10 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15513 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems
Included are the kite system methods that adopted barrage net tactics to care for insect invasions, unwanted aircraft intrusion, and the like.  Teasing toward such: 
Net and Boom Defenses

 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15514 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?
AWES exploration will see many arrangements. Each arrangement may have its own safety procedures.  What to do? What to have in place?

This topic thread might explore scenarios at various depths. 

===============

Start: Fictitious scenario:
Kiteplane with tethers (one or more) breaks away when wing is at 2000 ft AGL.  The break is near the ground station.  Considerable tether is being dragged.  Alarm is set off. An automatic call is made to downwind ATC.  Radar sees the wing. Roads are potentially to be crossed by the tethers.  Power lines are downwind. Homes and antenna are in the drag path. Conventional wind turbines are also in the potential drag path.  The AWES team responsible for system had planned ahead and installed sensors that cut the line at the wing; they also installed controls on the wing operated by batteries and/or RAT onboard along with a smart GPS homing system for gliding the wing back home. The tether had a gliding parachute to help slow the tether drop and also smartly glide the upper end of the tether to home; the tether dropped on planned field. The wing glided home and landed close to target fenced area. 
================

Other scenarios are invited anytime.

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15515 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Why no success? CANT, WONT...
CAN'T: Consistent Application of Non-viable Technologies
WON'T: Worldwide Obliviousness of Nature's Tricks
:)))
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15516 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems
"kite system methods...for insect invasions" *** hey Joe, can you figure out a way to get rid of gophers?  Also ground squirrels.  Both are very persistent around here, causing a lot of property damage.  I've had some luck, but not enough - battles won, but the war shows no signs of ending.  Just when it was looking hopeless, a ray of hope appears! ...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15517 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Pounding, Hammering, Smashing

Pounding, Hammering, Smashing Ground and Things by Kite Systems

Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust  and placed into the kPower, Inc.  AWES IP Pool:

We have already lift-and-place public domain use of kite systems. However, specific pounding of soils, hammering things, and smashing things by use of kite systems open opportunities for creative arrangements.

The pounding (let such term cover hammering and smashing) wanted in a practical work may be sparse, one-time, frequent, or with cycle level high.  The kite system used in the pounding may be smart and robotic or controlled by a human pilot in real time.  Lift-pounding-device and then let the device be let to drop to pound the ground or things. Up-and-down as wanted; pound as wanted.   The technology may be applied for multiple of effects including but not limited to these effects: smashing old cars and appliances, pounding the soil to disturb gophers (even Doug Selsam's gophers), compact soil of a walking path, insert seeds to the soil for farming, pound fence posts into soils, break concrete rubble into smaller pieces, break a structure to fulfill a demolition order, etc.   If the practical task needs pounding, hammering, or smashing, then consider using kite systems to do the job; device masses may be accelerated by kiting actions or by simple direct use of gravity.   Want to penetrate deep into soil in one blow? Lift a shaped mass to 500 ft AGL and let that mass drop onto target.  Etc.

      All are invited to mention practical uses for this technology. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15518 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?
The scenario presented is like Makani's, for reference; not including the ballistic parachute system they also propose to carry.

A compelling follow-on scenario is that cheaper safer topologically-stable soft-kite AWES, with far greater scaling potential, handily wins in energy market competition, without the elaborate unit back-ups that every single-line AWES kiteplane will require.

 A stable AWES topology of low-mass low-velocity soft kites is inherently fail-soft. An entire farm cannot breakaway, by statistical stability. Lattice parts breakaway is limited to self-killing bits of rag and string.


On Monday, October 20, 2014 2:31 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15519 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Electrical Matters
Courses may be linked in this discussion thread. 

One course online is the NEETS  
Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series (NEETS), 1998.
Relatively modern basic electricity and electronics classes.
Mod-1 Intro. to Matter, Energy, and Direct Currentmod01.pdf (2 MB)
Mod-2 Intro. to Alternating Current and Transformersmod02.pdf (3.9 MB)
Mod-3 Intro. to Circuit Protection, Control, and Measurementmod03.pdf (2.4 MB)
Mod-4 Intro. to Electrical Conductors, Wiring Techniques and Schematic Readingmod04.pdf (1.5 MB)
Mod-5 Intro. to Generators and Motorsmod05.pdf (1.3 MB)
Mod-6 Intro. to Electronic Emissions, Tubes, and Power Suppliesmod06.pdf (1.5 MB)
Mod-7 Intro. to Solid-State Devices and Power Suppliesmod07.pdf (2.4 MB)
Mod-8 Intro. to Amplifiersmod08.pdf (1.8 MB)
Mod-9 Intro. to Wave-Generation and Wave-Shapingmod09.pdf (1.8 MB)
Mod-10 Intro. to Wave Propagation, Transmission Lines, and Antennasmod10.pdf (2.4 MB)
Mod-11 Microwave Principlesmod11.pdf (4.3 MB)
Mod-12 Modulationmod12.pdf (1.7 MB)
Mod-13 Intro. to Numbering Systems and Logicmod13.pdf (1.2 MB)
Mod-14 Intro. to Microelectronicsmod14.pdf (6 MB)
Mod-15 Intro. to Synchros, Servos, and Gyrosmod15.pdf (1.6 MB)
Mod-16 Intro. to Test Equipmentmod16.pdf (1.9 MB)
Mod-17 Radio-Frequency Communications Principlesmod17.pdf (5.6 MB)
Mod-18 Radar Principlesmod18.pdf (1.7 MB)
Mod-19 The Technician's Handbookmod19.pdf (1.3 MB)
Mod-20 Master Glossarymod20.pdf (508 KB)
Mod-21 Test Methods and Practicesmod21.pdf (2 MB)
Mod-22 Intro. to Digital Computersmod22.pdf (3.6 MB)
Mod-23 Magnetic Recordingmod23.pdf (3 MB)
Mod-24 Intro. to Fiber Opticsmod24.pdf (1.7 MB)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15520 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?
Well, I didn't want to bring up the concept of a kite as a weapons system, but, Big Kite, big rope, big hook, big fun?  Removing Horse Manure: Yesterday I drove a bobcat across the street to my neighbor's place.  They have some nice Arabian horses, and had accumulated a rather large pile of what large horses produce.  One neighbor had mentioned "When are you going to get rid of "Bandini Mountain" over there"?  It seems that it would be convenient to be able to lift that large pile of manure and drop it where one wishes, such as at the neighbor's house who brought it up!  maybe you couldn't drop the whole pile at once, but in several smaller drops.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15521 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

CN202176456 (U)  -  Three wind power mechanisms, aircrafts, aerological stations, wind power ships and high altitude water taking machines by    CONGGUI LUO

[[This guy is thinking big.  ~ JoeF]]


==========================

Full translation to English is invited by someone. Or a careful technical translation to English. Thank you. 

==========================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15522 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15523 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Russian Kite Energy Technology

Russian Kite-Energy Technology


One day some volunteer might produce a strong Russian kite-energy paper. Thanks in advance. 


One source for term "kite" as noun:    бумажный змей

~ JoeF

 


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15524 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Article by George J. Varney

Topic thread for studying AWES matter in George J. Varney's article in Appletons' Popular Science Monthly

Vol. LIII, May to October 1898.

Article starts on  the magazine's page 46.  Total: 16 pages; several illustrations and photographs.

https://archive.org/stream/popularsciencemo53newy#page/48/mode/2up


=================



 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15525 From: dave santos Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Who is Luo Conggui? He proposes a partially plausible flying machine (resembling some AWES Forum antecedents) with a unit rating of 200GW (second only to KLG TW planetary-scale meshes), with megaton payloads (KLG has done gigatons). Additionally, he claims a wide variety of AWES variants and a lot of cryptic details. The drawings are examples of minimalist technical schematic style, if anyone wants a reminder. Luo's are monster patents, packed with concepts, so there is a fair chance something might stick. Open AWE seems to have priority for the most general claims, and Luo may have long been lurking in AWE cyberspace, but high originality is evident as well-

"The invention relates to a wing ring, a wing ring mechanism and a method. As to a conventional middle shaft type wind wheel and a rotary wing, wing blades are supported only by a force arm on one side of a middle shaft, the whole torque and load are borne only by one central shaft, therefore, a 100,000 kilowatt-class electric generator or a kiloton helicopter cannot be driven; if the middle shaft is abandoned from the wing ring, a ring support is directly used for supporting the wing blades from two sides, the total area of an effective ring section can be increased by a plurality of times to hundreds of times, a plurality of groups to hundreds of groups of track cars are used for sharing the torque and load which are only borne by one shaft, and the torque is also increased by a plurality of times to hundreds of times, therefore, the capacity of a single wing ring wind turbine generator can exceed that of a largest steam turbo generator, and the maximum take-off weight of a wing ring aircraft can reach tens of thousands of tons; a group of buoyancy lift mechanisms is arranged in two wind layers (opposite in wind direction) of a reverse wind group respectively, and the two groups of the buoyancy lift mechanisms are connected through ropes, connecting rods or supports to form an opposite-pull flying mechanism; and the maximum take-off weight of the wing ring opposite-pull flying mechanism can reach hundreds of thousands of tons, and the maximum generating capacity can be ten times of that of the three Gorges project."


On Monday, October 20, 2014 9:58 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15526 From: Rod Read Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Breakaway tethered wing? What next?
Drop it on an ST which looks like a rather effective muck spreader.
You want to see the prices farmers pay for a good muck spreader.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15527 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Who is he?
 Searching ...
 Clues:
  •  China.
  • It seems another person is associated on some document: QIU Shouyong 

  • On one document here is an agent for the two persons: 
  • SHENZHEN CENTURY FOREVER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OFFICE
  • About that patent-handling company: 

  • Shenzhen Century-Forever Intellectual Property Office is a young professional intellectual property law firm in Southern China. We learn more and make
  • more changes for the world and our clients. Currently, we have four offices with more than 20 patent and trademark attorneys of about 50 staffs.
  • The firm focuses its practice solely on prosecution litigation transaction and consultation services relating to patent trademark copyright trade secret
  • The firm focuses its practice solely on prosecution, litigation, transaction and consultation services relating to patent, trademark, copyright, trade secret,
  • trade dress, domain name, unfair competition and other intellectual property related matters. We serve all clients with there different requiries, providing
  • one-to-one service to make the schedule more simple and ensure the quality.
~ JoeF
  •  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15528 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
He does seem to be sweeping EnergyKiteSystems, in part.
 FFAWE:
front page image
As his application goes into various deposits, it seems he joins various partners: 
LUO, Conggui [CN/CN]; (CN).
QIU, Shouyong [CN/CN]; (CN)
(WO2013041025) WING RING, AND MECHANISM AND METHOD WITH SAME 


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15529 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Seems a 2011 date is claimed for priority. 
From one of the several docs: 


(12) International Application Status Report
Received at International Bureau: 10 October 2012 (10.10.2012)
Information valid as of: 09 April 2013 (09.04.2013)
Report generated on: 21 October 2014 (21.10.2014)
(10) Publication number:
WO2013/041025
(43) Publication date:
28 March 2013 (28.03.2013)
(26) Publication language:
Chinese (ZH)
(21) Application Number:
PCT/CN2012/081623
(22) Filing Date:
19 September 2012 (19.09.2012)
(25) Filing language:
Chinese (ZH)
(31) Priority number(s): (31) Priority date(s): (31) Priority status:
201110279648.3 (CN) 20 September 2011 (20.09.2011) Priority document received (in compliance
with PCT Rule 17.1)
201110305597.7 (CN) 10 October 2011 (10.10.2011) Priority document received (in compliance
with PCT Rule 17.1)
(51) International Patent Classification:
F03D 11/00 (2006.01); F03D 9/00 (2006.01); F03B 3/12 (2006.01); F03B 13/00 (2006.01); B64C 27/32 (2006.01); B63H 5/07
(2006.01); B64D 27/24 (2006.01)
(71) Applicant(s):
LUO, Conggui [CN/CN]; Room 503, Builing 5, Dianxin Area, Sichuan Road Beihai, Guangxi 536000 (CN) (for all designated
states)
QIU, Shouyong [CN/CN]; Room 503, Builing 5, Dianxin Area, Sichuan Road Beihai, Guangxi 536000 (CN) (for all designated
states)
(72) Inventor(s):
LUO, Conggui; Room 503, Builing 5, Dianxin Area, Sichuan Road Beihai, Guangxi 536000 (CN)
QIU, Shouyong; Room 503, Builing 5, Dianxin Area, Sichuan Road Beihai, Guangxi 536000 (CN)
(74) Agent(s):
CENFO INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AGENCY; Room 210-212, 2/F, Building "Golden" Design Industrial Park, No. 3838,
Nanshan Road (Block 11, Industrial Village of Former Nantou Cheng) Nanshan District Shenzhen, Guangdong 518052 (CN)
(54) Title (EN): WING RING, AND MECHANISM AND METHOD WITH SAME
(54) Title (FR): ANNEAU D'AILE ET MÉCANISME ET PROCÉDÉ COMPRENANT CELUI-CI
(54) Title (ZH): 翼环及具有翼环的机构暨方法
(57) Abstract:
(EN): Disclosed is a wing ring comprising an annular support (1) and a plurality of vanes (2) provided on the annular support (1),
wherein the plurality of vanes (2) are disposed equidistantly on the annular support (1); each vane (2) is connected to the annular
support (1) and an included angle is formed between one face of each vane (2) and the circumferential face of the annular support
(1); and the included angle includes an angle of 0° and 180° but does not include an angle of 90° or 270°. The wing ring dispenses
with a central shaft, directly using the annular support to support the vanes from two sides, thus expanding the gross effective wing
panel area, and the ring-shaped support strengthens the load bearing capacity. The wing ring of the present invention can be used
for power generation and for lifting heavy objects, such as aircraft. Also disclosed are a mechanism and a method having this wing
ring.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15531 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
I'd say he's our latest "Professor Crackpot".  Presenting a weakened, too-heavy turbine design, and claiming (of course!)  it will produce millions of times the power of previous turbine.  Mmmm hmmmm....  :)))
Why stop at 10x, or 100x, or even a thousand times - go for it - cite a million times!  The good professor on steroids!
Let's see him power a single cottage before we get too carried away with his fantasy world of outpowering the world's largest powerplants.
What's next, he's going to publicize a trial version on the moon?  Antarctica?  Professor Crackpot loves to deploy in improbable places.  The more ridiculous requirements he can throw in, the longer he has excuses for never deploying at all!  Fukushima?  Inner Alaska?  Antarctica? Mars?  The good professor LOVES impossible places so he can rest on his laurels with one more excuse.  "Well we HAVE to deploy in Alaska, but, doncha know, winter is coming and all..."  BOOM - instant 1-year excuse!   (Oh yeah, winter - I forgot...) Or if he works at NASA, he can promote blimps carrying turbines in the relative vacuum of Mars and hope nobody notices the vacuum part. 
Yeth we're targeting some very out-of-the-way places for siting, because these people really NEED super-expensive, completely unreliable power, to charge their thmartphoneth or light a thingle tiny bulb, but, there's this ebola thing, doncha know, M'Kayyyyyyyyy?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15532 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng
In our AWES-Agricultural sector we have noticed the tasks of spreading seeds, plowing, pest control, water management, fire fighting, controlled fire setting, and more.   Now, by the story of DougS' neighbor and RodR's suggestion for a solution to AWES breakaway in muck spreading by use of  a secondarily-working ST, we notice here a topic that has serious potential:  Muck Spreading by Kite System.   Notes to advance this branch of work are invited to this topic thread. 

Kite systems could scrape and lift and accumulate muck. Then kite systems could lift and spread muck methodically over fields.  Feed the plants; feed the world.   Specific solution examples are invited in time. Details of solutions might be novel. The fundamental method of pick-and-place is public domain.  Business solutions smartly unfolded might be worth millions to focused entrepreneurs.  Reduce tractor use; reduce human labor; reduce use of fossil fuels; muck spread by kite systems. 

Lift, Drag, Rotate, Pull, Pound, Place, Collect, and Spread, 
~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15533 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28

Let's, perhaps, get to know him thoroughly as soon as possible, in order to capture a robust view of his flow and gifts. It may take some time.  If he is listening, please show and introduce yourself. 

MORE: 
Reciprocating unloading and loading kite and kite-driving working mechanism thereof, power generation method, and vehicle or boat traveling method
WO 2012146158 A1

Study of this document by him and a partner would be part of the process of getting to know him. 

Publication numberWO2012146158 A1
Publication typeApplication
Application numberPCT/CN2012/074563
Publication date1 Nov 2012
Filing date23 Apr 2012
Priority date24 Apr 2011
InventorsConggui LUO, Haowei QIU, 丘濠玮, 罗琮贵
ApplicantLuo Conggui, Qiu Haowei
Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Patent Citations (8), Classifications (14), Legal Events (2)

External Links: Patentscope, Espacenet - Bibliographic data

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15534 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
LUO Conggui cited: 
Cited PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle
WO2010084520A1 *20 Jan 201029 Jul 2010Sequoia Automation S.R.L.Tether for tropospheric aeolian generator
CN101050752A *12 Feb 200710 Oct 2007孙正维Directly traction motor generation technology by double row reciprocating interlink fixed rail sweep vehicle
CN101240778A *6 Feb 200713 Aug 2008李庆星Kite power generation method
CN102275779A *24 Apr 201114 Dec 2011罗琮贵控缆机、两种筝、三种风力及水流发电机暨风筝电船
CN201714574U *1 Feb 201019 Jan 2011戴宁;戴坚High-efficiency high-altitude kite electric generator
US4124182 *14 Nov 19777 Nov 1978Arnold LoebWind driven energy system
US20050046197 *3 Sep 20033 Mar 2005Kingsley Gordon BruceWind energy production using kites and ground mounted power generators
US20100032949 *15 May 200911 Feb 2010CMNA PowerSystem and method for altering drag and lift forces on a wind capturing structure
* Cited by examiner
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15535 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng
A new meaning for "The S*** hits the fan(s)".  What about drop-dusting?
(Dang, I plumb cottonpickin' lost my crop: we had no wind that week)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15536 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng
Doug S. , 
        Recall the kite-system techniques where the working wings are flown by pumping energy into the system. Towing loop with working wings on the lines could muck spread when there is no ambient wind. Use grid energy to drive the calm-kiting system. No need to lose the crop for lack of wind while still using one's kite system. 
~ JoeF


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <dougselsam@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15537 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading, crop-dusting, Kite Spreadikng
Sure Joe.  Require your autonomous grid-powered flying ag-robot to be tethered, just in case there is some wind so it can pretend it's a kite for a short period - Professor Crackpot!  "becauth exthpert kite-flyerth will define the future of energy!" - just make sure we keep using the word kite.  If it doesn't use a kite at all, find a component that can be "redefined" as "a kite".  Just so long as we play "the kite game"...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15538 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Since titles and patent application numbers vary, and since deep study has not occurred yet over the documents, I would caution that there may be fresh claiming in documents that superficially might seem to be redundant.   With that said, I find another document regarding LUO Congguji

Espacenet - Bibliographic data

 

Cable controller, kite, kite drive operating mechanism, kite power generator and automobile and boat wind- driving method 


~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15539 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
We had LUO in our sight years ago. Here is the note I had placed in FFAWE folder at EnergyKiteSystems.net

First page clipping of WO2013041025 (A1)
WO2013041025  (A9)  -  WING RING, AND MECHANISM AND METHOD WITH SAME     
One priority date: 2011 09  20     Luo Conggui, Qiu Shouyong

It is a guess that the inventors are applying some claim to known FFAWE systems among other things. See patent; but we await a quality translation of the patent to English. Anyone?

Above is an air-air FFAWE system.   See also else: air-water, air-air, and water-water FFAWE.   Even soil-water, soil-soil, soil-air FFAWE.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15540 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
One patent map on LUO Congguji  shows some kin interests. One is getting hydrogen. 

Luo Conggui, Page 1

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15541 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Last year we noticed LUO in our forum with message:  10775
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15542 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Arnold Loeb with wind driven energy system
This patent seems to be accumulating uncommon mentions in follow-on patents. 
So far: 
That "100" count will probably keep growing. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi
Renewable energy systems using long-stroke open-channel reciprocating engines
US 6555931 B2

Publication numberUS6555931 B2
Publication typeGrant
Application numberUS 09/952,253
Publication dateApr 29, 2003
Filing dateSep 14, 2001
Priority dateSep 20, 2000
Fee statusPaid
Also published asCA2357383A1, US20020033019
InventorsJohn V. Mizzi
Original AssigneeOmnific International, Ltd.
Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Patent Citations (9), Referenced by (27), Classifications (21),Legal Events (3)

External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet - Bibliographic data

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15544 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Not being a  patent examiner nor a patent attorney, I still find the process talk sometimes interesting: 


where someone is hacking away at claims. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15545 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15546 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Active AWES nations and language challenge

The AWES IP embedded in Russia, Japan, China, India, Germany, and other nations is growing. And my corner senses that such IP deposit should be as familiar with what can be reached by French, Italian, and English.   Within my budget of funds and time, I am not coming up with what I consider to be an adequate solution for the challenge.  My early hope that someone in AWE community would represent the challenge for each nation is slow in unfolding; too slow.  As yet, no one has stepped up to cover China. No one has arrived to cover Japan. No one yet has taken Russia on for the meta-AWE good. Etc.  It would be great if someone in AWE would own the office of comprehensively covering the IP of each particular nation. We have room to well present findings.     Even one gem missed might be key to AWES success.    

    Mastery of Russian?  Of Chinese?  Of Arabic?  Of German?  Of Japanese?  Of Korean? Of  Hindi?  Etc. 

Please consider your circles of associates.   Each AWE team might have a corner of investment towards this kind of AWE-Community-wide need solving.   Put 99.9% of a team effort into downselects, but consider the wider benefit of becoming world-comprehensive in IP awareness, and perhaps pooling of IP. 

    Posting to the AWES forum lets other database workers make summaries and link sets for the benefit of all. 


AWE IP Volunteer, 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15547 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: D.U.M.B.
It seems that since I was a kid, we keep hearing more and more 3-letter "diagnoses" for why people's brains don't work.  "No, you're not stupid, you just have CFSO! (Can't Figure Sh** Out)"  You're not dense, you just can't learn anything and we have a 3-letter dodge you can use when telling people all about it.  First they poison the water with dumbing-numbing chemicals, then offer dumbing down drugs with more of the same chemicals, to "counter" the "unexplained" lack of mental acuity.
Months ago, in one more stroke of genius - or at least "a stroke", I stumbled upon a new universal diagnosis:
 DUMB:  Dysfunctional Unspecified Malfunction of the Brain
I'd have to say, seeing hundreds, then thousands of patents, patent after patent after patent, for airborne wind energy schemes, while after 100 years of (not even) trying, (newborn baby - WAH!) we have yet to see a single system up and running in the entire world, I offer this important excuse-acronym, in a world of excuse acronyms, for AWE developers, the Professor Crackpots around the world, to use as an excuse for why they can patent so many devices, but never get any of them up and running:
They can say they suffer from... (drumroll please) D.U.M.B.
But hope remains - just because one suffers from DUMB one day (and we ALL have our DUMB days) doesn't mean we are all condemned to be DUMB forever.  We can learn and improve, and, at some point, MAYBE, SOME of us can transcend being endlessly mired in the ravages of DUMB.  DUMB - "talk to your doctor".  :)))
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15548 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Active AWES nations and language challenge
"The AWES IP embedded in Russia, Japan, China, India, Germany, and other nations is growing."  Yeah, but does all that I.P. suffer from D.U.M.B.?  Let's not forget the track record of 100 years of AWE IP - Zero...
If you started with 10,000 patents, and none works, calculate the odds of success.  If they don't work, are the ideas DUMB?  If some ideas are not DUMB, then, if they ave not been developed, are the promoters DUMB?
"Calling people stupid is very mean - you have no idea - perhaps they just suffer from D.U.M.B.!"  "Gosh I never thought of that - who knew? Sorry!"
D.U.M.B.: Dysfunctional Unspecified Malfunction of the Brain
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15549 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: CN202176456 (U) ― 2012-03-28
I think Doug is again sadly mistaken to claim "Professor Crackpot", especially if his own ST far more deserves the critique "weakened, too-heavy turbine design". Doug is also mistaken to presume megascale AWE ideas to be crackpot, a priori.

Luo correctly dismisses the poor scalibility of (ST) driveshaft transmission. Instead, he eliminates the drive-shaft and even the massive turbine hub(s) Doug requires. His Wing Ring Aircraft has a fairly typical ratio of wing to fuselage, especially given a long flexible snake-like ring. This is essentially the same flyable configuration as IFO spagetti, but with tethers.

Time will tell if Doug better deserved the "crackpot" inventor slur than the many fine folks he has sought to hang the insult on. Certainly, no one has ever bandied this accusation in wind-power more than Doug, and if the much-hyped ST is unworkable to reach upper wind, no one in wind power deserves the "crackpot" title more. Time will tell.






On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 9:38 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com