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Classification Challenge
AWECS-classification schemes working folder
AWECS Classification Challenge Committee (ACCC)
Most recent edit of page: Mo/da/yr:
10/24/2012
A classification allows a faster understanding of systems,
advantages, and disadvantages according to systems' common main features, and
that with a concise presentation. Studies of possible uses of systems will be
easier. The joined presentation allows furthering insertion of other systems,
corrections, and improvements of presentation. Links on websites or videos can
be created. It would be interesting to keep steps before a conversion into PDF
which could be a document for presentations towards organizations like NASA.
PierreB
http://energykitesystems.net/AWECSclassification/PierreB/CLASSIFICATIONforAWECSbyPBnov2010.pdf
Discussion:
22 Nov 2010 by JoeF: Thank you, PierreB! The PDF attached has no edits by me. The tree format surely will be one of the leading favored presentations. In PDFs, I can form Internet links per word or symbol, if you supply the URLs. Further versions, as you wish, can be formed. I am envisioning various treed versions for various purposes. And even perhaps stepped versions that grow from one page to another view to yet other views. Others will work in this direction as you are working. Be sure to send this to people that you think might want to contribute to the Classification Challenge committee. http://energykitesystems.net/AWECSclassification/PierreB/CLASSIFICATIONforAWECSbyPBnov2010.pdf [ ] Pierre, I need some help in understanding your phrase: "It would be interesting to keep steps before a conversion into PDF" Please give me your meaning in French and perhaps another version in English. Thanks. Did you mean that we could make the links to websites and videos on the tree presentation before we convert to PDF? That will eventually be done. In versions of classifications, when a company name is used, then I am wanting to be sure all companies are presented. Thanks for continuing work on the classification challenge. I have not sent your version to anyone, but the PDF is linked from the working page for AWCCC at http://www.energykitesystems.net/AWECSclassification/index.html which is open to public. Your suggestions and directives are ever invited. Do you feel the version just presented holds free-freeflight methods? Traction over land? Combined methods that have flygen and groundgen in one system? If AWECS is said without qualification, then I am aiming to face the scale challenge. When a presentation is intended for the large-scale AWECS for satisfying grid needs, then title distinction would discern the matter. If an AWECS is using mechanical energy for direct work like sawing, grinding, pumping fluids, pounding, charging flywheels, moving objects, etc, then no electrical generator is involved. |
Committee formation:
Meta-comment regarding committee formation:
WayneG suggests that there might be two committees:
1) One whose goal would be to pursue "People Friendly" Tethered Flight
Technology to benefit everyone everywhere.
2) One for those that wish to pursue "People Targeting" Tethered Flight
Technology to benefit some people at the expense of others -- such as
monitoring people that do not want to be monitored.
WayneG, November 10, 2010.
In a second round expression: "I think we need two committees. One for
those who choose to develop Tethered Flight Technology to benefit mankind in
general -- and only with those of like mind -- and only disclosing their
knowledge with people of like mind. And the other for those that choose
to develop Tethered Flight Technology to aid and assist any group that already
has vastly greater military power than its opponents." WayneG, November 11, 2010.
[[Comment by JoeF on 12Nov2010: I am happily
struggling to hear Wayne; the last clause had to be wrestled before I
understood; I here state what I believe to be an example that helped me
understand the clause: say an AWECS worker P in Belgium has a set of opponents;
those opponents may or may not have much military power; however those opponents
stand in relation to other non-self groups; some of those groups may have
military power greater than the opponents of Belgium. I do not know of any
opponent of Belgium, as I am not steeped in knowing such matters yet. But
suppose that set of opponents is non-empty and we let that set be symbolized as
set M. And let the the set of nations or groups that are not opponents to
Belgium but have stronger military power than the military power of members of M
be symbolized in the set designator O. Then I am surmising
that the second type of committee would hold P of Belgium and be choosing to
develop TFT to aid and assist members of O. Why would one help those who are
stronger militarily than one's opponents? One's opponents want to do
harm to oneself; those opponents might go gain the assist of more powerful
militaries to injure oneself. So, if one is willing to assist groups
militarily more powerful than one's opponents, then one would consider joining
the secondly mentioned committee. The tacit implication expressed, I am
struggling, is that a member of the secondly mentioned committee would not be
people-friendly and would not be wanting dominantly to benefit everyone
everywhere. I am having difficulty with this matter because "everyone
everywhere" includes those who might choose to harm others directly or
indirectly. So, I am urging that classification schemes be firstly neutral
tools with the assumption that the tools are like wheels and
gears, potentially used unfortunately to hurt, but more importantly potentially
useful for doing great good. See a
commentary by WayneG placed on a page on its own in this committee's
folder. ]]
When forming the
ACCC, I did not make Wayne's distinction; personally, I want to reach solutions
that raise good for people in a manner that replaces systems giving less good; I
would not want injustice to be tolerated in the process. Classifications
of AWECS might just be neutral tools that could be used for good or poor. So, I do not know if ACCC is one or the
other of Wayne's two choices or perhaps neutral to the bifurcation suggested;
maybe the classification challenge could be met without having to decide what is
being pursued relative to friendly factor. Of course, of the many possible
classifications, some might be purposed for People Friendly, while some
classification might be used in ways that deposit inequity. I have asked WayneG
to clarify what he means by "monitoring" people, as such is yet unclear to me;
he clarified that monitoring people has to do with collecting and analyzing
information comprehensively by the use of airborne devices over countries and
their people; that is as I understand from
his note, which see.
JoeF, November 11, 2010.
Nominated-not-yet-accepted committee
members, so far: Dave Santos,
David Lang, Wayne German (iff there is a "People Friendly" mission to a
committee), Dave Culp, Richard Ruiterkamp,
NOMINATIONS ARE STILL OPEN:
M2516 of Nov. 11, 2010.
October 19, 2010, e-mail to DaveS, JohnO, WayneG, AlexanderM, and
PierreB: Rough outline started. PierreB has done some significant work on
classification. See also our two methods files: see above for the two links.
Accepted their membership in ACCC: Alexander Muzhichkov (AlexanderM or Alex Mu or AlexM), Joe Faust (JoeF), Pierre Benhaïem (PierreB), ________, ___________, ___________
Notes to protem secretary for the committee may be sent to JoeF: Editor@UpperWindPower.com
In the article, DaveL specifically put aside bifurcations as to type of wing used in systems. [[Commentary by JoeF on Nov. 11, 2010: 2techs x 2ormore power levels x 5 methods=20 or more. Then upon the 12 parameters: 20 or more x12 parameters = 240 or more concerns]] However, DaveL went further in the article to make a comparison even with a kind of metric over 12 parameters; the rating produced a best to least best or "bad" scheme.
And certainly welcome from All: commentary toward obtaining effective classification schemes that may be set high for viewing and possible use. Anticipated are several classification schemes that face particular purposes. Pioneering designers might enjoy one type of classification of AWECS. Investors might find a classification that can be worked to help them decide where to put their money. Airspace controllers may benefit from classification; indeed, agents may provide their own classification scheme for governance. AWEIA International may want to have a scheme that is workable for membership purposes. Within SportsAWE there may develop a classification that distinguishes sporting activities. Etc.
Note, there is a very simple system: All others and mine. Such a simple system might have a narrow use, but it just may be very powerful for the one entity using the "mine" system.
Another classification may also have very narrow effective use: Those that work today and those that do not work today. Two branches. Opinions vary on which methods would go into the works-today branch.
The fuzzy mission statement for the committee will probably get less fuzzy in time.
Scratching records for the committee so far:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/AWECSclassification/index.html
May AWE come up with some cool classification systems!
See thread in group M1739
Wiki goal, two main files. Develop other files on companies.
Terms of description of a given system.
Committee-member input original | Secretarial redaction without intentionally changing substance | Discussion spawned from the left two columns per row. |
CONCERNING CLASSIFICATION
CHALLENGE July 1, 2010 Working note re: Wiki As co-founder of
Ampyx Power, I am very interested in your extensive Wikipedia
contributions on high altitude wind energy. There is however something
that is missing in the structure of the wiki. Both the topic high altitude
wind power and airborne wind turbine lack the theoretical structure as
described in M. L. Loyd , J. Energy, vol. 4 - no. 3, 1980. In this paper
Loyd deduces the theoretical optimum power production for stationary and
moving tethered kites. In doing so he describes all the possible scenarios
of tethered flight, with the exception of aerostats. As an example of this
structure the differences in approach between Ampyx power, Joby Energy,
Makani and other techniques becomes more transparent. |
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Commentary and
actions relative to the suggestions on the left.
Still working in committee on these matters, Thank you, methods of airborne wind energy conversion systems
|
PierreB on Nov. 10, 2010
enters matters for consideration: A good scheme for classification
should let contain all types of AWECS. Here is a trial for finding
"determinants". |
Here will be
an effort of re-presentation of what is in the left column from PierreB on
Nov. 10, 2010 by secretary JoeF:
[effort session will be continued; not done, of course; pause] A
good scheme for classification should let contain all types of AWECS.
|
Note: PierreB
has published: "A
flygen
is a configuration of AWECS with generator aloft." Discussion: How will we handle an AWECS that has a generator aloft and a generator on the ground in the one system? Bi-positioned generator? JoeF, 14Nov2010. |
Alex Mu on Nov. 11, 2010 puts on
the table:
Really a quantity of AWECS types defined by multiplication of all variant that you mention in “Miscellaneous aspects of systems”, means 73*73=5329 or more. Many of them obviously are not realized and can be just in imagination of authors. I suppose the main question is first in your list: “What work is being done?”. All kind of ideas about AWECS are like tiny brooks, but there are main let say “rivers” like Laddermill, Magenn, and so on, that are already realized in any case. And they must be determining names in classification. There will be--in any case--some kind of natural selection. And only working (or at least tested) models have a chance to stay in history. I suggest a classification like in nature, for example, webbed monkey. In our case is like Laddermill robot-controlled. This structure will be formed itself; we just can help it by discussions on forum. It means, that classification will be made not from theoretical sight but from sight of inventors. And I find it right because we make it for completely new sphere. Other question is to collect and classify different means how to solve
different problems. For example, |
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In 2004 Dave Lang put forward a classification scheme. http://www.drachen.org/journals/a16/Using-kites-to-generate-electricity.pdf
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Some distinction therein: low-tech versus high-tech. Then he
constrained focus to power level range from "municipal to small domestic."
In the article, DaveL specifically put aside bifurcations as to type of wing used in systems. However, DaveL went further in the article to make a comparison even with a kind of metric over 12 parameters; the rating produced a best to least best or "bad" scheme.
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Commentary by
committee members:
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L. Fagiano on a rough classification: Altitude range: Boundary Layer vs Jet
Stream |
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The objective of this system study is to assemble a complete picture of these systems to help establish a foundation for this future industry, and support the wide variety of concept approaches. NASA, November 2010 | ||
How does a particular AWECS use the THICKNESS opportunity of the air space? | ||
Mobility opportunity of mooring | ||
Strata opportunity of wing | ||
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In Discourse,
page 35. Yr: 2010 by Joe Hadzicki and Dave Lang Now let’s consider three main variables: lift Generally speaking, three different types of Generators are used to convert the motion |
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M2960 Pierre B. | ||
Abbas Rezaey aims at a classification scheme: Introduction into Airborne Wind Energy Concepts 1. Lighter than air concept 2. Lift and drag concept High drag coefficient concept (kits, hybrid kits…) High lifting coefficient concept (wing, laddrermill, system presented by sky wind power ) 3. Tower concept 4. Hybrid concepts High drag coefficient with lighter than air gas Low drag coefficient with lighter than air gas High drag coefficient with lighter than air gas with tower Low drag coefficient with lighter than air gas with tower |
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